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CCP - End Highsec Incursions

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Author
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#921 - 2015-05-15 08:43:06 UTC
I have to admit that I haven't read the entire thread so what I am about to say may have been said before.

CCP should look at the time it takes Concord to respond or just turn off concord in incursions. That would allow gankers to gank and add risk to the equation. The problem really isn't the income but risk involved with the amount of ISK made. Also, an updated AI would really make incursions more dynamic, not like burner missions but something that challenges players. If I had one thing to change about EVE it would the predictability of the AI and from what I have seen they are working on this but in the end AI is most of the problem.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#922 - 2015-05-15 10:10:36 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
CCPs data shows more liqid isk is made in null due to the fact that all the reward for anoms come from bounties. That does not mean null has the best income, said anoms are on par with level 3 income in highsec. That propaganda about how great our great ratting income is in renter space is just that, propaganda. Shock horror, goons are scamming people into paying taxes for useless space. Do you honestly think we would not be using that space ourselves if it was any good?

What I want is a total revamp of income from PVE in all areas of space in the same way that mining, industry, exploration and PI now operate.
I think the fact that your alliance can throw hundreds of extremely well equiped supers and titans into a fight is more then enough evidence that nullsec makes plenty of isk. Remember how CCP swore that titans cost so much that only the biggest alliances would be able to field a few? I believe I remember similar statements about super carriers when they were introduced. Seems nullsec income far surpassed even CCP's expectations.


I was talking about recruitment banners/images not renter stuff.

I've done the renter thing and I've done the big alliance thing. I made more personal isk as a renter but the SRP, intel channels, and such from the big alliance thing certainly made up for the loss in income relative to renting.


My ten billion isk dread was paid for using high sec mission cash. Our last three titans were paid for by high sec mission runners we scammed. Highsec is where we get our funding from.
Commander Spurty
#923 - 2015-05-15 10:31:04 UTC
Incursions brought me back into the game.

High degree of respect for all entities and fcs who run these groups.

They don't ask for full API
They don't ask for 200mill sp + two dread alts
They even have well written fleet doctrines and rookie how tos!

Incursions and the people who organize them are far more useful in the universe than you appear to be able to appreciate.

Huge No to whatever OP is asking / bothered by

Huge round of applause for incursion groups for their inclusive model.

It works, it's not how null sec go about their business and that's bothering you is how your post reads.

You sound like a holy person bashing everyone who walks by with your holy book. Aka a bit of a knob

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#924 - 2015-05-15 10:36:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
sorry but what exactly is "useful" about incursion payouts? its only useful to an incursion runner to pad a wallet its not like they have to buy lots of ships every week to replace lost ships.

Incursions brought you back to the game? what exactly attracted you to incursions if you dont mind me asking

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#925 - 2015-05-15 12:54:04 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
as said why buff everything else when you can sort the root of the problem


Because people are short sighted. They don't understand how things work, there for they can't understand that "buffing everything else" results in EVERYTHING costing more, which means the status quo thing they were trying to protect with their denial ends up being functionally less lucrative anyways.

In other words, the folks that cry "just buff null" don't understand that it ends up in the same result as if you just fixed the actual problem in the 1st place. I think it's because when people get into that "greddy defensive mode" that makes them defend something that is obviously (observably, testable and measurably) broken, they lose contact with reality and reason.

It doesn't just happen with isk (hell, it doesn't just happen in gaming). We've seen it time and time again when CCP has had to nerf some outrageous thing, people come out of the wood work with illogical arguments to defend the indefensible (arguments that, as this thread demonstrates, end up actually describing the problem to poster was trying to deny). If it were up to those types of people, we'd all be flying 10 drone 5 MWD 20k meters per second Thoraxes lol, because 'there was nothing wrong with that'. Twisted

Hemmo Paskiainen
#926 - 2015-05-17 11:46:44 UTC
Commander Spurty wrote:
Incursions brought me back into the game.

High degree of respect for all entities and fcs who run these groups.

They don't ask for full API
They don't ask for 200mill sp + two dread alts
They even have well written fleet doctrines and rookie how tos!

Incursions and the people who organize them are far more useful in the universe than you appear to be able to appreciate.

Huge No to whatever OP is asking / bothered by

Huge round of applause for incursion groups for their inclusive model.

It works, it's not how null sec go about their business and that's bothering you is how your post reads.

You sound like a holy person bashing everyone who walks by with your holy book. Aka a bit of a knob


I have handles the recruitment in a corp in -A- for about 3 yrs: Cutting out the useless weed and profits on 0.0 iskmaking is the main cause of 0.0 recruitment policy. The carebear that refuse to contribute and leaves at first glance when his carebear income stream dries up is just simply a waist of resources and effort. On the other hand, the rookie, that has been properly screened, spy-clean, that has 120% willpower to fight, those got their ships for free at one point.

You see, in EVE the only limit is your willpower to do, create or to make it happen!

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#927 - 2015-05-17 11:56:47 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Burl en Daire wrote:
I have to admit that I haven't read the entire thread so what I am about to say may have been said before.

CCP should look at the time it takes Concord to respond or just turn off concord in incursions. That would allow gankers to gank and add risk to the equation.


This has been suggested before, and it is the single most valid idea in this thread. Smile

Sentry gun damage can stay at Hisec levels with the system dropping to <0.4 security status and CONCORD disappearing. Blink

Content, PvP, PvE, risk, reward, roleplay, TRAVEL WARNINGS, new Lore! Doo eeeet.
Cyborg Girl86
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#928 - 2015-05-17 12:00:08 UTC
2Sonas1Cup wrote:
Or drastically drop their payouts not the point of killing them but to a more balanced level compared to other highsec activities.

Highsec Incursions payout WAY too much for the risk and time you take.

Many people run incursions to plex accounts log out for the month.

Theres little to no incentive to do anything else in the game once you start running incursions, you wont stop, and you will not do anything else other than your casual pvp on a random alt when the opportunity arises.

Incursions are a decease, they are killing/killed a major part of the game, took the need of doing and trying different things to make isks.

Hell theres not even a reason to leave highsec anymore, whats the incentive of null when you can make as much or even more in the safety of highsec?


Please put an end to incursions, its been far too long already, sanshas must go.


---------- FAQ ---------

1-Ganking / Interfere with incursioners

Incursions are 5 years old, there is nothing new about them that someone hasn't thought of and tried in the past to successfully gank incursioners and come out in profit. NO, you won't. NO, there isn't a secret way. Or else there would be plenty of other people doing it already, just think about it, you're not Einstein.

Example most recent fail attempt, 40 machariels with smart bombs, not even 1 incursioners dead, gankers lost billions to concord.
Incursioners laughed at you on comms.

2-Make more isks in null / (Insert random wormhole class here)

NO, no you don't.
Let's just leave it like that.
Null and especially wormholes arent nearly as consistent as incursions.
And let's not talk about all the effort, resources and logistics needed, and not mention having to manage capitals in some cases.
Oh and the risk.. I don't even wanna go there.

3-Risk being bling ships

What risk? The fact that you are watching titanic and crying about it and forget to broadcast for shields on time?

Also ships aren't as blingy as they once were. People found the sweet spot and most efficient fits in terms of cost/performance nowadays, and to be honest most of them don't even bother with some of the more expensive modules.

4-Station trading

Been there, done that.
NO you don't make billions upon billions, don't let people fool you with stories.
You need a LOT of effort and work and .01 PvP + being lucky enough there aren't too many traders online to PvP against you.
And if the same quantity of people that run incursions would station trade then you wouldn't even make a penny.
Also it is WAY too much inconsistent ... And yet STILL you won't make more than incursions on your best day.


This is dumb, but that's just my opinion for whatever its worth.

I'd personally like to see MORE incursions with BIGGER enemy fleets that are harder to kill for more giant EPIC SPACE BATTLES!!!!
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#929 - 2015-05-17 12:04:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Liafcipe9000
Cyborg Girl86 wrote:
I'd personally like to see MORE incursions with BIGGER enemy fleets that are harder to kill for more giant EPIC SPACE BATTLES!!!!

yes for more challenge. EVE Online needs more challenge IMO and incrsuions are probably where it's at for PVE challenges.

also your portrait is one of the most beautiful portraits I've ever seen. you nailed that evil cyborg look perfectly.
Cyborg Girl86
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#930 - 2015-05-17 12:09:30 UTC
Thank you Oops

I like compliments Smile
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#931 - 2015-05-17 15:23:28 UTC
Commander Spurty wrote:
Incursions brought me back into the game.

High degree of respect for all entities and fcs who run these groups.

They don't ask for full API
They don't ask for 200mill sp + two dread alts
They even have well written fleet doctrines and rookie how tos!

Incursions and the people who organize them are far more useful in the universe than you appear to be able to appreciate.

Huge No to whatever OP is asking / bothered by

Huge round of applause for incursion groups for their inclusive model.


None of which would be affected by incursion payout being reduced to a sensible level. Of course, many people said things like you before CCP knocked 10% off highsec incursion income. Turns out they were lying, because, IIRC, CCP ended up reversing that fix due to the Thames not being able to handle the sheer volume of salty water that hit the server.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Jax Arr
A Random Corp 232
#932 - 2015-05-19 14:45:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jax Arr
I just don't understand how anyone can say nullsec = more ISK than incursions. You must run with some awful incursion fleets.

Given 1 character, 1 account:

Incursion HQs can net you up to 250m per hour in ISK payout, though it's usually more like 120m average for me. + Concord LP at minimum 1k ISK/LP.

Nullsec running anomolies has been for me about 22m * 3 ticks per hour = 66m usually minus 10% corp tax so 59m or so per hour. +RISK

Sure you can run plexes and maybe hit a jackpot and get a bil or so in loots, or you could only get the overseer effects... but you have to first get an escalation or spend loads of time scanning.


And yes, null-sec is lots and lots of ISK for a large entity because of moongoo, but the typical line member does not see that ISK. Fountain moons are like 17bil gross ISK per day: Fountain Moons

I agree, incursions make too much money, for too little risk. Null-sec needs an income boost for the average joe, IMO. Perhaps there should be 10-40man anomolies in null that net about the same as incursions, and require all indexes to be 5 before they spawn, or something. Null incursions are just meh.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#933 - 2015-05-19 14:49:14 UTC
Jax Arr wrote:
Sure you can run plexes and maybe hit a jackpot and get a bil or so in loots, or you could only get the overseer effects


hey you didnt mention the silly jumps through nullsec in a 1.7bil marauder to do the 10/10 escalations Cool

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#934 - 2015-05-19 14:59:01 UTC
Jax Arr wrote:
I just don't understand how anyone can say nullsec = more ISK than incursions. You must run with some awful incursion fleets.

Given 1 character, 1 account:

Incursion HQs can net you up to 250m per hour in ISK payout, though it's usually more like 120m average for me. + Concord LP at minimum 1k ISK/LP.

Nullsec running anomolies has been for me about 22m * 3 ticks per hour = 66m usually minus 10% corp tax so 59m or so per hour. +RISK

Sure you can run plexes and maybe hit a jackpot and get a bil or so in loots, or you could only get the overseer effects... but you have to first get an escalation or spend loads of time scanning.


And yes, null-sec is lots and lots of ISK for a large entity because of moongoo, but the typical line member does not see that ISK. Fountain moons are like 17bil gross ISK per day: Fountain Moons

I agree, incursions make too much money, for too little risk. Null-sec needs an income boost for the average joe, IMO. Perhaps there should be 10-40man anomolies in null that net about the same as incursions, and require all indexes to be 5 before they spawn, or something. Null incursions are just meh.


+1

Moon goo always comes up in these discussions as if it has something to do with anything. The fix for that is to make moon mining an individual activity rather than something that is structure based. Someone's hulk mining moon goo is a better traget for interference than a freaking **** star lol.

in null it's grunt lvl pve income that indeed needs a boost,but it can't be in the form of more bounties from anomalies, there is too much of that already. My suggestion has always been to lower anom bounties but add a mixture of loyalty points of something like it and tags to wrecks that need to be collected and trade in in empire. Tags would still be an isk faucet, but a delayed one like wormhole blue loot, and one that can be stolen in transit. And LP is an isk sink which would blunt over-expansion of available isk in the game. Even with that, other forms of PVE have to be looked at, higher rewards mean zero when you can still make a certain amount of reward in safe conditions with very little actual effort.

None of the above ideas will ever be considered by people in denial about the problem actually existing though.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#935 - 2015-05-19 15:01:18 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Jax Arr wrote:
Sure you can run plexes and maybe hit a jackpot and get a bil or so in loots, or you could only get the overseer effects


hey you didnt mention the silly jumps through nullsec in a 1.7bil marauder to do the 10/10 escalations Cool


I lost a Vargur a few weeks ago in Delve to XXPizza after coming home from doing a 10/10 where I only got the overseers effects. Thank you for reminding me of this traumatic experience. I will now lobby CCP to add "Synth Xanax" to it's list of in game drugs.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#936 - 2015-05-19 15:32:26 UTC
Quote:
Null and especially wormholes arent nearly as consistent as incursions.


Reading this thread, it seems either the null dwellers posting suck, or are underrating the income. I never lived there for an extended period and I never made huge ISK from it, so I'm no expert. I know that a couple years ago the Null ratting bots were making as much as Incursion runners hands down. CCP has the confiscated PLEX to prove it.

However, with wormholes, not even close. Before the first Incursion nerf, a C3 WH would easily pull in what VG's made. C4's, when properly run, have always netted more than the spike claim of 250mil/hr. At least for my corp/alliance. I cant imagine that people would be able to fund caps and super caps in null without there being better income than Incursions and wormholes.

If you count strictly ships and POS parts I've lost in wspace, then the loss is bigger than ships I've lost in Incursions. I lost one Mach because my drones that were on assist magically attacked my FC. No one else died so no big deal. However, if you count thing's I've destroyed then stolen in Wspace, the few billion I've lost is nothing compared to the 10's of billions I've taken in. Risk V reward is funny like that, PvE and PvP are 2 separate worlds.

Which brings me to the real point, that its the War Dec system that's really broken, not Incursions IMHO. When some Incursion fleets started griefing other Incursion fleets, I started War dec'ing. And they started running. Its absolutely ridiculous. People making a billion a day cant be arsed with a war.

And therefore I can see why CCP doesn't fix it. If just anybody could stop them from making their money, they would all quit playing Eve. It would do more harm than good to the server economically. And that's why they don't just take them out altogether.

Co-Operative PvE should net more income than non co-op, but the risk should be higher too. Until someone engineers a fix for that its going to stay imbalanced (IMHO its IMBA not broken).

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#937 - 2015-05-19 16:00:53 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Jax Arr wrote:

And yes, null-sec is lots and lots of ISK for a large entity because of moongoo, but the typical line member does not see that ISK. Fountain moons are like 17bil gross ISK per day: Fountain Moons


Shoooo. Shhh. Oops

Just don't go taking the total Dyspro moonz to the calculator - it breaketh it.

The eternal Cycle mooves on. EVE is going to be saved yet again. Cool
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#938 - 2015-05-22 04:03:43 UTC
Jax Arr wrote:
I just don't understand how anyone can say nullsec = more ISK than incursions. You must run with some awful incursion fleets.

Given 1 character, 1 account:

Incursion HQs can net you up to 250m per hour in ISK payout, though it's usually more like 120m average for me. + Concord LP at minimum 1k ISK/LP.

Nullsec running anomolies has been for me about 22m * 3 ticks per hour = 66m usually minus 10% corp tax so 59m or so per hour. +RISK

Sure you can run plexes and maybe hit a jackpot and get a bil or so in loots, or you could only get the overseer effects... but you have to first get an escalation or spend loads of time scanning.


And yes, null-sec is lots and lots of ISK for a large entity because of moongoo, but the typical line member does not see that ISK. Fountain moons are like 17bil gross ISK per day: Fountain Moons

I agree, incursions make too much money, for too little risk. Null-sec needs an income boost for the average joe, IMO. Perhaps there should be 10-40man anomolies in null that net about the same as incursions, and require all indexes to be 5 before they spawn, or something. Null incursions are just meh.

I live in fountain now and i dont make billions a week risk free like hisec incursioners. It aint fair.


What about closing the Mom ship farming? Where they keep it alive and not kill it to farm more.
What if it like had a set time limit you either had to kill it or it left across new eden somewhere else?

Thats gotta make incursions less of an easy iskfarm and makes sense?

Can we agree?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#939 - 2015-05-22 04:22:14 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:


Reading this thread, it seems either the null dwellers posting suck, or are underrating the income. I never lived there for an extended period and I never made huge ISK from it, so I'm no expert. I know that a couple years ago the Null ratting bots were making as much as Incursion runners hands down. CCP has the confiscated PLEX to prove it.


80% of bots are found in highsec. Bots haven't been a thing in null for at least 7 years now and they have never pulled in incursion level isk.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#940 - 2015-05-22 05:39:24 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:


Reading this thread, it seems either the null dwellers posting suck, or are underrating the income. I never lived there for an extended period and I never made huge ISK from it, so I'm no expert. I know that a couple years ago the Null ratting bots were making as much as Incursion runners hands down. CCP has the confiscated PLEX to prove it.


80% of bots are found in highsec. Bots haven't been a thing in null for at least 7 years now and they have never pulled in incursion level isk.


huh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX2Tn50UYFw move ahead to 30:40 or so

Looks like bots are a thing in all parts of space.

Juss sayan

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)