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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Fleet Command Options: Mass Gate and Mass Dock.

First post
Author
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#41 - 2015-05-19 01:33:24 UTC
Deep Nine wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Jayne Fillon wrote:
Sorry to throw a wrench in your idea, but this isn't going to happen.

Where do we draw the line? Fleet activate hardeners? Fleet cycle guns?

I hate being a debby downer but removing the need for a pilot to fly their own ship is not on CCP's roadmap, I assure you.



This
Like the other guy said there needs to be a fine line between command and control


I have definitely drawn the line, please reread the thread.

Except for the part where you didn't and started this thread right?

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2015-05-19 04:25:55 UTC
Deep Nine wrote:
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Please Please Please! I'd love to sneak into a fleet as a squad or wing commander and make 10-50 people jump a gate without the rest of the fleet following. The tears after they get destroyed would be glorious!


As was stated before, this would not be possible. And was never suggested. Roll

So, in addition to playing the game for all the players in your fleet with the exception of target lock and pressing f1, you want this to operate through a system inconsistent with the existing wing warps. Got it. This sounds like a great idea. Roll
Fleet warps are a nice system because they keep the fleet together and can be canceled by the players. They do not fully replace the line member's actions as a means to travel. Your suggestions would allow the fleet members to go afk for minutes at a time while the FC moves around for them, and if the FC activates a dock/jump command there is no option for them to cancel it.

-1

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Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#43 - 2015-05-19 05:46:00 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Deep Nine wrote:
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Please Please Please! I'd love to sneak into a fleet as a squad or wing commander and make 10-50 people jump a gate without the rest of the fleet following. The tears after they get destroyed would be glorious!


As was stated before, this would not be possible. And was never suggested. Roll

So, in addition to playing the game for all the players in your fleet with the exception of target lock and pressing f1, you want this to operate through a system inconsistent with the existing wing warps. Got it. This sounds like a great idea. Roll
Fleet warps are a nice system because they keep the fleet together and can be canceled by the players. They do not fully replace the line member's actions as a means to travel. Your suggestions would allow the fleet members to go afk for minutes at a time while the FC moves around for them, and if the FC activates a dock/jump command there is no option for them to cancel it.

-1


F1 online is the term i believe Blink

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Deep Nine
Vigilante Carebears
#44 - 2015-05-19 11:39:10 UTC
Quote:
So, in addition to playing the game for all the players in your fleet with the exception of target lock and pressing f1, you want this to operate through a system inconsistent with the existing wing warps. Got it. This sounds like a great idea.


No, that was never suggested except by you.

Quote:

Fleet warps are a nice system because they keep the fleet together and can be canceled by the players.


So would mass gating and docking, as this has been said multiple times prior; "as opposed to these suggested features which do not and would actually still be within the players control to allow to occur in the first place. via a toggle option similar to what an orca has that allows and disallows access to hangers."

Quote:
They do not fully replace the line member's actions as a means to travel. Your suggestions would allow the fleet members to go afk for minutes at a time while the FC moves around for them, and if the FC activates a dock/jump command there is no option for them to cancel it.


Yes, there would be, but once again you are purposefully ignoring the suggestion and insinuating something false.

Please read the thread before you post and do not omit information, as to anyone who does read it will lose respect for your opinion and it will damage your credibility, as its done here.


Olivias Lahoe
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2015-05-19 17:14:06 UTC
+1
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2015-05-19 19:06:04 UTC
Jayne Fillon wrote:
Sorry to throw a wrench in your idea, but this isn't going to happen.

Where do we draw the line? Fleet activate hardeners? Fleet cycle guns?

I hate being a debby downer but removing the need for a pilot to fly their own ship is not on CCP's roadmap, I assure you.


Is fleet warp still on Fozzie's death list?

I'm my own NPC alt.

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#47 - 2015-05-19 19:29:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Deep Nine wrote:
Besides the fact I never mentioned, or implied, being able to undock fleet members.


Nor did I. Who cares about that?

Deep Nine wrote:
It does provide opportunity for not only fleet commanders to refine their fleets by identifying slackers (useful), it would provide more element of risk to careless pilots, allowing commanders to define their fleets by sorting out AFK'ers (teaching them the necessity to be present, and instilling discipline where needed, or expelling them when they fail to show improvement, more realistic), it would give more versatility to commanders as stated before, and even allow more discretion for the fleet commander to decide action taken once a location is reached. And that is beside the aforementioned reasons stated in the OP.


How do fleets not do that now? It's much easier to identify the undisciplined and the slackers by the fact that they're not following your spoken commands.

However, it takes no discipline on my part to have my ship fleet or wing warped, nor does the FC know whether I'm paying attention when he executes the command. If he says "Jump jump," it becomes obvious really quickly who is and who isn't on the ball.

Deep Nine wrote:
Citing AFK as a reason to stop any suggested idea is moot at best and infantile bare minimum.


Perhaps, but it's also extremely common (seriously, how many fleets have you been in?) and the ne plus ultra example of lack of discipline, assuming RL isn't intruding. But there are already ways to accommodate RL intruding, starting with the FC not being a jerk about it.

Deep Nine wrote:
There is a great deal of focus on feelings about afk while leaving out any sort of actual logical argument based on hard facts or points while over-emphasizing a desperate need to control others behavior in real life with a ball and chain shackling them close to a keyboard.


Ah, so this is precisely about going AFK while the FC does the work, not about discipline or training or discernment or anything else.

And BTW, the reason people are bringing up AFK all the time has nothing to do with "feelings" and everything to do with refuting your assertion that fleet members will learn anything at all with the introduction of these mechanics. They won't, any more than students learn how to drive a bus by being passengers. You learn by doing.

The rest of your mudslinging is not worth responding to.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Jayne Fillon
#48 - 2015-05-20 02:20:39 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Jayne Fillon wrote:
Sorry to throw a wrench in your idea, but this isn't going to happen.

Where do we draw the line? Fleet activate hardeners? Fleet cycle guns?

I hate being a debby downer but removing the need for a pilot to fly their own ship is not on CCP's roadmap, I assure you.


Is fleet warp still on Fozzie's death list?
If it was, I wouldn't be able to talk about it. So... maybe? Twisted

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.

Lucious Lyon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2015-05-20 15:33:09 UTC
+1
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#50 - 2015-05-20 16:22:44 UTC
-1

If anything, I would suggest removing the fleet warp altogether.
Operating in fleet should not be made easier, but in fact made more difficult, requiring each player to pay attention. and if this is a convoluted way of helping solo player multi-boxing, this is a also bad idea.

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project

Silk Garrot
State War Academy
Caldari State
#51 - 2015-05-22 00:42:41 UTC
I personally think he made a decent case for it.

i could see how it could be used and how it could help fleet leaders better categorize their people. Like he said, part of the metagame.

It may be ahead of its time, but I would support it if not just to see the effect it would have on fleets.
Specia1 K
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#52 - 2015-05-22 04:57:38 UTC
-1
Not a good thing removing actual hands on game play.

Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

Thunderdome

Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#53 - 2015-05-22 05:05:44 UTC
Silk Garrot wrote:
I personally think he made a decent case for it.

i could see how it could be used and how it could help fleet leaders better categorize their people. Like he said, part of the metagame.

It may be ahead of its time, but I would support it if not just to see the effect it would have on fleets.

Yo Deep Nine try to make your forum alt agreeing with your every word actually try and have a life of it's own to not be so obvious Roll

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Deep Nine
Vigilante Carebears
#54 - 2015-05-23 02:33:27 UTC
Bump
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#55 - 2015-05-23 05:30:14 UTC
Deep Nine wrote:
Bump

Not allowed in this forum bro.

15. Bumping outside the EVE Marketplace and Alliance & Corporation Recruitment channels is prohibited.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Iain Cariaba
#56 - 2015-05-23 06:23:10 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
Deep Nine wrote:
Bump

Not allowed in this forum bro.

15. Bumping outside the EVE Marketplace and Alliance & Corporation Recruitment channels is prohibited.

Additionally, if you have to bump a thread in F&I, it's because no one cares enough about your idea to keep the thread alive.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#57 - 2015-05-23 07:37:21 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
Deep Nine wrote:
Bump

Not allowed in this forum bro.

15. Bumping outside the EVE Marketplace and Alliance & Corporation Recruitment channels is prohibited.

Additionally, if you have to bump a thread in F&I, it's because no one cares enough about your idea to keep the thread alive.

Confirming that people will find some kind of talking point if they think the thread is worth keeping alive. For proof, see the thread in my sig, which is still alive almost 6 months after it was created.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Deep Nine
Vigilante Carebears
#58 - 2015-05-23 11:20:36 UTC
(Updated from the original)

The joining of a fleet and the faith put in the fleet commander is by definition an act of trust, in EVE especially. Trust is a commodity that is difficult to earn, easy to violate, and impossible to buy.

The current fleet command options, while they allow a variety of capabilities for the commander do not allow them to actually command ships to do much, limited to warping the ships or regrouping them. While these are generous features alone to be sure, they would do well by being augmented to provide a fleet commander, perhaps not a wing or squad commander or perhaps so as well, with additional options to actually command the ships a step further. As mentioned before, trust in commanders is implicit.

Allowing an expansion of command options would provide metagame content for fleet commanders that is unparalleled in every other MMORPG while allowing the convenience and ease for the Fleets members to turn authority over to their fleet commander to make certain non-combat decisions on their behalf. An additional option could be added for members of a fleet to be able to enable or disable their inclusion in the commanders choice in docking and gating them, this provides several functions.

1.) The building of repport amongst members within a given fleet towards a commander.

2.) Trust building, between members and commander. Giving members of the fleet a choice to disallow docking or gating, allowing them to maintain control over these options or trust In their commander to make the call for them.

3.) Providing additional metagame content, not only for EVE, but especially for the commanders of fleets.

4.) Allowing additional command decisions to be made on behalf of the fleet by the commander at his discretion for the benefit or drawback of his pilots.

5.) These command options can very easily be integrated into the existing fleet window and would expand the content of existing gameplay while providing additional incentive for those who wish to persue further leadership rolls, giving additional cause to do so.

An additional feature that shouldn't go unmentioned as well should be the advent of Hot Keys for the feature of not only Mass Dock and Mass Gate, but also and for Fleet Warp, Fleet Jump, and Regroup as well.

This would allow further tight-nit dynamic use of the Fleet commanders ability to direct and guide his fleet, wings, and squads with additional ease. It makes logical sense that since almost every aspect of piloting and navigation is represented with a possible hot key, that these choices should be represented as well.

Progression of these features would allow further dynamic gameplay and immersion for the roles of leadership while allowing the progressive relationship of trust to be built between the fleets members.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#59 - 2015-05-23 13:47:42 UTC
Deep Nine wrote:
(Updated from the original)

The joining of a fleet and the faith put in the fleet commander is by definition an act of trust, in EVE especially. Trust is a commodity that is difficult to earn, easy to violate, and impossible to buy.

The current fleet command options, while they allow a variety of capabilities for the commander do not allow them to actually command ships to do much, limited to warping the ships or regrouping them. While these are generous features alone to be sure, they would do well by being augmented to provide a fleet commander, perhaps not a wing or squad commander or perhaps so as well, with additional options to actually command the ships a step further. As mentioned before, trust in commanders is implicit.

Allowing an expansion of command options would provide metagame content for fleet commanders that is unparalleled in every other MMORPG while allowing the convenience and ease for the Fleets members to turn authority over to their fleet commander to make certain non-combat decisions on their behalf. An additional option could be added for members of a fleet to be able to enable or disable their inclusion in the commanders choice in docking and gating them, this provides several functions.

1.) The building of repport amongst members within a given fleet towards a commander.

2.) Trust building, between members and commander. Giving members of the fleet a choice to disallow docking or gating, allowing them to maintain control over these options or trust In their commander to make the call for them.

3.) Providing additional metagame content, not only for EVE, but especially for the commanders of fleets.

4.) Allowing additional command decisions to be made on behalf of the fleet by the commander at his discretion for the benefit or drawback of his pilots.

5.) These command options can very easily be integrated into the existing fleet window and would expand the content of existing gameplay while providing additional incentive for those who wish to persue further leadership rolls, giving additional cause to do so.

An additional feature that shouldn't go unmentioned as well should be the advent of Hot Keys for the feature of not only Mass Dock and Mass Gate, but also and for Fleet Warp, Fleet Jump, and Regroup as well.

This would allow further tight-nit dynamic use of the Fleet commanders ability to direct and guide his fleet, wings, and squads with additional ease. It makes logical sense that since almost every aspect of piloting and navigation is represented with a possible hot key, that these choices should be represented as well.

Progression of these features would allow further dynamic gameplay and immersion for the roles of leadership while allowing the progressive relationship of trust to be built between the fleets members.

Post it till your blue in the face it's still a bad idea. Fleet control is bad. Hell fleet warps need to go and be replaced by perhaps a method of slowing all ships down to the slowest by a selectable like the do no warp feature. There you go repost that and you won't get a overwhelmingly negative response

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Deep Nine
Vigilante Carebears
#60 - 2015-05-23 15:10:35 UTC
Dev and CCP can determine that for the good of all pilots, the idea is proposed and its merits laid bare.