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[Carnyx] Sentry Drone Adjustments

First post First post First post
Author
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#221 - 2015-05-21 22:35:02 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
The part that surprises me is that you guys seem to think that the tracking or range slash application is the problem.

Instead of, you know, the fact that Sentries allow a cruiser to fit batteship equivalent weaponry.


Costs about the same though doesn't t?


What?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Hilti Enaka
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#222 - 2015-05-21 22:39:36 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
The part that surprises me is that you guys seem to think that the tracking or range slash application is the problem.

Instead of, you know, the fact that Sentries allow a cruiser to fit batteship equivalent weaponry.


Costs about the same though doesn't t?


What?


Fitting a cruiser properly costs about the same if not more as fitting a BS, let alone skilling for it. Why shouldn't it do the same amount of damage as a BS?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#223 - 2015-05-21 22:43:25 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
The part that surprises me is that you guys seem to think that the tracking or range slash application is the problem.

Instead of, you know, the fact that Sentries allow a cruiser to fit batteship equivalent weaponry.


Costs about the same though doesn't t?


What?


Fitting a cruiser properly costs about the same if not more as fitting a BS, let alone skilling for it. Why shouldn't it do the same amount of damage as a BS?


Because it makes battleships useless in comparison?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Hilti Enaka
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#224 - 2015-05-21 22:49:30 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
The part that surprises me is that you guys seem to think that the tracking or range slash application is the problem.

Instead of, you know, the fact that Sentries allow a cruiser to fit batteship equivalent weaponry.


Costs about the same though doesn't t?


What?


Fitting a cruiser properly costs about the same if not more as fitting a BS, let alone skilling for it. Why shouldn't it do the same amount of damage as a BS?


Because it makes battleships useless in comparison?


Not really, BS's are mainly used for what becuase of what?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#225 - 2015-05-21 22:52:17 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:

Not really, BS's are mainly used for what becuase of what?


Is being obtuse your shtick, or am I just being trolled?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Hilti Enaka
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#226 - 2015-05-21 22:57:29 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:

Not really, BS's are mainly used for what becuase of what?


Is being obtuse your shtick, or am I just being trolled?


No, I am genuinely asking you a question as to why we use BS's and what the reason are for doing so.
Maximos Jenks
East Coast Grass Growers Association
#227 - 2015-05-21 22:57:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximos Jenks
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks, thanks for the feedback so far.

For those of you who are worried that we won't touch any specific ships because we're making these changes, I'll point you again to the second paragraph of the OP. We are not ruling out any changes to specific ships as we go forward. We made changes specifically to the Ishtar in Scylla, and we plan on continuing to make changes bit by bit to continually improve the game's balance.

We're making an adjustment already to the original proposal, adding some more falloff to the Gardes.

New Garde range changes are: -25% optimal, +66.7% falloff.

The shift from a moderate reliance on optimal to a moderate reliance on falloff is still part of the plan as it will help close the gap between range bonused ships and range unbonused ships, but with this version the crossover point between ranges where the Gardes do less damage than before and the point where they do more damage than before will be earlier.

Thanks as always, and have a great evening!


Thanks for trying, but everyone isn't complaining about the falloff.. It's like saying we're taking away your house but giving you this nifty box to live in. You talking about balance, but nerfing the range to 50 percent of the next in line drone is a bit extreme, oh in the same token is bouncers going to do 50 percent the damage, but have 150 percent better tracking than the garde. Curator have 60 percent the damage and 160 percent the tracking. The warden just flat out sucks, and with this range bonus nerf(even with the increase falloff) yall are pushing the sentry drone choices from 3 kinda (see point about wardens suck, and gardes limited range as it is currently) to just two choices. Balance is about choice, not restriction which I believe your indirectly reinforcing.

Also fix the ****** Ishtar plz. Double bonus to drones sucks.
Alexis Nightwish
#228 - 2015-05-21 23:03:54 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks, thanks for the feedback so far.

For those of you who are worried that we won't touch any specific ships because we're making these changes, I'll point you again to the second paragraph of the OP. We are not ruling out any changes to specific ships as we go forward. We made changes specifically to the Ishtar in Scylla, and we plan on continuing to make changes bit by bit to continually improve the game's balance.
And that "nerf" was a joke.

The problem is not sentries.

The problem is not even that cruisers get bonuses to drones above their size class.

The problem is that they have a bandwidth of 125mb! This allows them to deploy five fully bonused sentries with no drawbacks!

I refuse to believe that you are either stupid or blind to this so I have to ask, why? Why do you keep avoiding the issue? The real issue. Are drone cruisers special snowflakes? The Vexor, VNI, Ishtar, and due to its disgustingly OP bonuses, the Gila are all the most powerful cruisers in their classes (T1, Navy, T2, Pirate).

Cap drone cruisers at 50mb, change the Gila's bonus from 500% to 300%, and be done with it! Jeebus!

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#229 - 2015-05-21 23:10:59 UTC
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
The part that surprises me is that you guys seem to think that the tracking or range slash application is the problem.

Instead of, you know, the fact that Sentries allow a cruiser to fit batteship equivalent weaponry.


Costs about the same though doesn't t?


The smaller sig + faster + better warp speed + better resist packages is good compared to the more raw buffer + more fittings one?
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#230 - 2015-05-21 23:11:08 UTC
The great thing about balance surrounding drones/sentries/ishtars is that everyone thinks they know the one and only thing that needs to change, so no matter what you change you **** off 90% of the forums.

Big smile

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Alexis Nightwish
#231 - 2015-05-21 23:14:20 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The great thing about balance surrounding drones/sentries/ishtars is that everyone thinks they know the one and only thing that needs to change, so no matter what you change you **** off 90% of the forums.

Big smile

Probably because 90% of forums is saying "the hull is the problem" yet you nerf the weapon anyway.

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#232 - 2015-05-21 23:14:30 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The great thing about balance surrounding drones/sentries/ishtars is that everyone thinks they know the one and only thing that needs to change, so no matter what you change you **** off 90% of the forums.

Big smile


That's rather passive aggressive, isn't it?

My statement merely suggested that you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The Ishtar is still too good, and you've made the Dominix, and a few other ships besides, worse than they needed to be.

It doesn't address the root of the problem.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#233 - 2015-05-21 23:15:23 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The great thing about balance surrounding drones/sentries/ishtars is that everyone thinks they know the one and only thing that needs to change, so no matter what you change you **** off 90% of the forums.

Big smile


The fun thing of devs account is they can ban me from both the forum and the game and never really need to answer simple question because they have god's given power to be right all the time.

Still no mention of which drone boat is problematic with sentries beside the soon to be re-designed carrier, ishtars and dominixes...
Discomanco
We pooped on your lawn
#234 - 2015-05-21 23:18:02 UTC
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The great thing about balance surrounding drones/sentries/ishtars is that everyone thinks they know the one and only thing that needs to change, so no matter what you change you **** off 90% of the forums.

Big smile

Probably because 90% of forums is saying "the hull is the problem" yet you nerf the weapon anyway.

I'd say you nailed it
The Primary Target
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#235 - 2015-05-21 23:20:30 UTC
Sure the hull is most of the problem now, but first let's think about this for a minute... First it was sentry carriers, then it was sentry domis, now it's sentry ishtars... Dunno bout you guys but I see a pattern here...
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#236 - 2015-05-21 23:20:32 UTC
Discomanco wrote:
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The great thing about balance surrounding drones/sentries/ishtars is that everyone thinks they know the one and only thing that needs to change, so no matter what you change you **** off 90% of the forums.

Big smile

Probably because 90% of forums is saying "the hull is the problem" yet you nerf the weapon anyway.

I'd say you nailed it


Nailing things is damage locked to kinetic so it's kinda useless VS Ishtars...
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#237 - 2015-05-21 23:21:38 UTC
The Primary Target wrote:
Sure the hull is most of the problem now, but first let's think about this for a minute... First it was sentry carriers, then it was sentry domis, now it's sentry ishtars... Dunno bout you guys but I see a pattern here...


Yeah, the pattern is one is a capital that is supposed to be re-designed anyway and the two others are sentry platform with a bonus that include projection AND application unlike any other weapon system in the game.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#238 - 2015-05-21 23:21:48 UTC
Appropriate nerfs.

Signed - someone that loves flying the Ishtar, and expects that to continue.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Hilti Enaka
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#239 - 2015-05-21 23:26:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Hilti Enaka
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The great thing about balance surrounding drones/sentries/ishtars is that everyone thinks they know the one and only thing that needs to change, so no matter what you change you **** off 90% of the forums.

Big smile


But why do you constantly look to balance things AKA nerf. That is the gods honest question 90% of the people you **** off ask. The problem is, like you get in manufacturing, if you try to make the bottleneck even a new one appears and you are forever, in the quest of trying to balance things, nerfing. It's basic human instinct to want to invent the next big thing when it's a trend people don't down grade what they thought long and hard about, to make things even, most people want tools to counter.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#240 - 2015-05-21 23:29:32 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The great thing about balance surrounding drones/sentries/ishtars is that everyone thinks they know the one and only thing that needs to change, so no matter what you change you **** off 90% of the forums.

Big smile


yep, people can be very narrow minded indeed, there are multiple issues that need fixing from the hull too the drones, but when you get them right 90% of people see that you have... not that people are great at admitting it mind.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using