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Question regarding Matari tattoos

Author
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#21 - 2011-12-27 19:29:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ValentinaDLM
Telegram Sam wrote:
I personally see no harm in Gallente teenagers or anyone else getting a Minmatar tattoo. Matari will always be able to distinguish who is actually Matari, just from the mannerisms. The carriage, gait, the way of using the hands (and not using the hands) when speaking. Even in a backlit room showing only silhouettes, one could distinguish a Matari, as well as whether he/she is a Brutor, Sebiestor, Krusual or Thukker.



How refreshingly insulting, to think that some would claim they could pick up on me being Brutor by just my mannerisms, there is more to me, than my heritage, even if it is a part of me, I refuse to allow it to define me. Then again, I don't have any tattoos either.

This isn't a slight to other Minmatar, but I don't think you can lump a who race in there like that. And to the people who say blood doesn't matter, I am no Matari, then surely blood doesn't matter those Intaki and whatnot can have their tattoos and be accepted into "Matari" culture too.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#22 - 2011-12-27 19:34:14 UTC
Telegram Sam wrote:
Even in a backlit room showing only silhouettes, one could distinguish a Matari, as well as whether he/she is a Brutor, Sebiestor, Krusual or Thukker.


Quite so, our noses all work well in the dark.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Tobias Primus
Virtus Crusade
Brave Collective
#23 - 2011-12-28 11:43:51 UTC
I'm generally of the opinion that any form of bodily defilement is abhorrent to God.
However, the Minmatar in my possession are tattooed with marks making them clearly distinguishable as owned by and under protection of The Empire.

Tobias Primus,
Loyal Servant of The Empire.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#24 - 2011-12-28 12:25:19 UTC
Tobias Primus wrote:
I'm generally of the opinion that any form of bodily defilement is abhorrent to God.


What about the words of the Prophet Anoyia ?
"The word of the Lord is pure, It is a shield for the faithful,"

Does that not condone Scriptural tattoos for the Faithful, hmmm?

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Domitianus Fury
Imperial Slave Recovery Service
#25 - 2011-12-28 12:57:05 UTC
Telegram Sam wrote:
Matari will always be able to distinguish who is actually Matari, just from the mannerisms. The carriage, gait, the way of using the hands (and not using the hands) when speaking.

You forgot smell.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#26 - 2011-12-28 18:34:49 UTC
Captain Fehrnah I'd recommend contacting any of us who are in the channel The Standing Place, or via private comms, for a serious discussion in this topic. Sadly it's become very difficult to obtain information or carry on discussion via IGS comms due to the constant thread-jacking by slavers and statists.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Audrial
Fly By Night Corporation
#27 - 2011-12-29 12:07:42 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Telegram Sam wrote:
Even in a backlit room showing only silhouettes, one could distinguish a Matari, as well as whether he/she is a Brutor, Sebiestor, Krusual or Thukker.


Quite so, our noses all work well in the dark.



Yes, it is easy to pick out us sweet smelling ones. I would not paint you all with such broad a brush as it is quite rude.

xxxxooooxxxxooooxxxx Audrial

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#28 - 2011-12-29 14:12:36 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Captain Fehrnah I'd recommend contacting any of us who are in the channel The Standing Place, or via private comms, for a serious discussion in this topic. Sadly it's become very difficult to obtain information or carry on discussion via IGS comms due to the constant thread-jacking by slavers and statists.


And emo freedom fighters?
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#29 - 2011-12-30 07:06:57 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
Captain Fehrnah I'd recommend contacting any of us who are in the channel The Standing Place, or via private comms, for a serious discussion in this topic. Sadly it's become very difficult to obtain information or carry on discussion via IGS comms due to the constant thread-jacking by slavers and statists.


And emo freedom fighters?


I believe those are so common these days they're considered a part of the standard package.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2011-12-30 07:36:57 UTC
Just an update and a few words.

Firstly, the matter is essentially settled at this point. After a brief discussion with people more familiar with Matari tattooing, meanings thereof, and possible interpretations or consequences of my personal intentions, I have gone ahead and had the tattoo work done. My reasons for this are my own again, while I won't share them here I will attempt to explain them to anyone who contacts me regarding them with any sort of genuine curiosity. In the interest of heading off some rumors or assumptions before they get a chance to start let me be clear about something. This should in no way be seen as a choice to "go tribal" or other such nonsense. I have made it no secret that I have respect for Matari culture, and further that I also have respect for a great many other cultures. On the other side of things, this should also in no way be seen as some sort of attempt to make a mockery of the Matari practice of tattooing for personal or historical reasons. Again I cannot stress this enough, if someone is curious or takes offense to this you are welcome to contact me.

Secondly, I'd like to offer my thanks to those of you who actually attempted to offer answers and information relevant to my question. To those of you how offered their opinions regarding the specific situation, I thank you as well regardless of it I agree or disagree with the offered opinions. To those of you who have not offered anything directly related to the topic of my original post and instead took the opportunity to insult one another, consider this a polite request that you do so elsewhere. I realize I'm guilty of the same myself so I'm by no means trying to break out the torches and pitchforks but I am nonetheless asking that such things be taken elsewhere.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#31 - 2011-12-30 08:37:48 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
Captain Fehrnah I'd recommend contacting any of us who are in the channel The Standing Place, or via private comms, for a serious discussion in this topic. Sadly it's become very difficult to obtain information or carry on discussion via IGS comms due to the constant thread-jacking by slavers and statists.


And emo freedom fighters?



Was that pathetic little barb directed at me, Farel? If so, get your facts straight. I'm a member of an industrial corporation and alliance, not a "freedom fighter". You might wish to do a bit of research. If you bothered to look before shooting off your mouth you'd see that Gradient's motto is "Freedom through Strength, Strength through Industry". Our mandate is to be the shield of the Republic by building an industrial backbone and to keep the spacelanes open by fighting pirates, criminals and other enemies of the Tribes.

I don't know what your issue is Farel but, little fits of pique such as this put the lie to your supposed quest for objective truth and your (self-appointed) position as the moral compass of the IGS. You're nothing more than a pseudo-intellectual, self-aggrandizing, confused ex-slaver who prattles on about grand concepts as if above the petty bickering of the average capsuleer when, in fact, you're no better than those you deride. In short you are a hypocrite, pilot.

At least the usual cast of Amarrian zealots and Caldari xenophobes are honest about their motivations.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#32 - 2011-12-30 10:29:19 UTC
It's amusing to see that our dearest IGS Amarrians are as open-minded and tolerant as everyone expects them to be.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#33 - 2011-12-30 11:35:01 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
Captain Fehrnah I'd recommend contacting any of us who are in the channel The Standing Place, or via private comms, for a serious discussion in this topic. Sadly it's become very difficult to obtain information or carry on discussion via IGS comms due to the constant thread-jacking by slavers and statists.


And emo freedom fighters?



Was that pathetic little barb directed at me, Farel? If so, get your facts straight. I'm a member of an industrial corporation and alliance, not a "freedom fighter". You might wish to do a bit of research. If you bothered to look before shooting off your mouth you'd see that Gradient's motto is "Freedom through Strength, Strength through Industry". Our mandate is to be the shield of the Republic by building an industrial backbone and to keep the spacelanes open by fighting pirates, criminals and other enemies of the Tribes.

I don't know what your issue is Farel but, little fits of pique such as this put the lie to your supposed quest for objective truth and your (self-appointed) position as the moral compass of the IGS. You're nothing more than a pseudo-intellectual, self-aggrandizing, confused ex-slaver who prattles on about grand concepts as if above the petty bickering of the average capsuleer when, in fact, you're no better than those you deride. In short you are a hypocrite, pilot.

At least the usual cast of Amarrian zealots and Caldari xenophobes are honest about their motivations.


I do not know how you came to the conclusion that it was aimed personally at you. At least, the freedom fighter part, considering that apparently you are still governed by your emotions before anything else, and still systematically taking aggressive stances by instinct.

My point was just that while we are at prejudices, we should at least be exhaustive, thus my addition to your list. I am sure we lack of many more others, though.

Now then, put aside your personnal appreciation of my mindset, I am still struggling to understand how I am an ex-slaver.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#34 - 2011-12-30 13:48:56 UTC
I find it ironic that the people are pointing fingers and claiming others are unable to let go.

It's hard to sit on the fence without being equally critical of everyone y'know.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#35 - 2011-12-30 18:31:21 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:

I do not know how you came to the conclusion that it was aimed personally at you. At least, the freedom fighter part, considering that apparently you are still governed by your emotions before anything else, and still systematically taking aggressive stances by instinct.

My point was just that while we are at prejudices, we should at least be exhaustive, thus my addition to your list. I am sure we lack of many more others, though.

Now then, put aside your personnal appreciation of my mindset, I am still struggling to understand how I am an ex-slaver.



I came to that conclusion because it was posted directly after a comment of mine and the fact that you seem to have a bias against Minmatar who struggle against the Amarrian "offer of redemption" (are you denying that you used to be an active member of Knights of the Merciful Crown, a combat capsuleer corporation that fought alongside the 24 IC). You are an adherent of the Amarrian religion and (now) ex-supporter of the empire; therefore an ex-slaver. Whether you ever personally held slaves yourself is immaterial; you supported the empire and were complicit in that crime against humanity, in my opinion.

Yes, I tend to take a moderately aggressive tone when dealing with bigots, xenophobes, the self-deluded, hypocrites and slavers. A thousand years or so of oppression (and betrayal at the hands of one's own blood) tends to radicalize. As the old saying goes, "don't hate the player, hate the game". Don't like the fact that we Matari are passionate in our feelings about the Amarr and Ammatar? Take it up with Jamyl.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#36 - 2011-12-30 20:02:52 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Yes, I tend to take a moderately aggressive tone when dealing with bigots, xenophobes, the self-deluded, hypocrites and slavers.


Painting everyone who supports the Amarrian Empire to be a slaver is pretty hypocritical when you take the above tone.

Further hypocritical that you hate hypocrites. Their actions may inadvertently allow the continuation of enslavement to be the status quo, but that's like calling the Matari who fight in the TLF a bunch of bloodthirsty terrorists who wish for nothing more than ethnic cleansing. Second guessing people's motives makes assumptions, and you know what they say about assumptions..


Painting every member of the 24IC a Slaver is bigotist, you'd do well to remember that.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#37 - 2011-12-30 20:04:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Anabella Rella wrote:

I came to that conclusion because it was posted directly after a comment of mine and the fact that you seem to have a bias against Minmatar who struggle against the Amarrian "offer of redemption" (are you denying that you used to be an active member of Knights of the Merciful Crown, a combat capsuleer corporation that fought alongside the 24 IC). You are an adherent of the Amarrian religion and (now) ex-supporter of the empire; therefore an ex-slaver. Whether you ever personally held slaves yourself is immaterial; you supported the empire and were complicit in that crime against humanity, in my opinion.

Yes, I tend to take a moderately aggressive tone when dealing with bigots, xenophobes, the self-deluded, hypocrites and slavers. A thousand years or so of oppression (and betrayal at the hands of one's own blood) tends to radicalize. As the old saying goes, "don't hate the player, hate the game". Don't like the fact that we Matari are passionate in our feelings about the Amarr and Ammatar? Take it up with Jamyl.


I certainly hold no bias against the Matari struggle, but I may hold grudges against some of the worst sides of the Matari culture/nation, as much as I hold grudges against other nations as well. I have nothing at all against the Matari struggle in itself, though.

I used to be a member of the Knighthood and part of their council, but I do not really understand what this has to do with the current discussion. I also used to fight "alongside" of the 24th IC for the statu quo - that I still support - but again, I fail to see what this really proves. Unless you want to prove Mr Marellus - the post just above yours - right, of course. So, please spit it : what is your point ?

Your opinion on my so called part in slavery is irrelevant, as I have probably freed as many slaves as you have probably ever done, and achieved more in that line of ideals and progressive mindsets that you can imagine. Ignorance may lead easily to prejudices, but I am a little tired to have to repeat that again and again. You just seem to want to see what suits you, and nothing else : if it does not please you or follows your political agenda, you just ignore it, which is a shame. To achieve the picture, I have never been a follower of the Amarrian religion, but merely of the Amarrian spirituality and scriptural core principles, which is something radicaly different. But again, it might be tied to your ignorance on the matter. To be more clear, I do not show the slightest interest in what the TC actually thinks, except maybe which consequences it may bring eventually.

A thousand years, or a million of years, or any other amount of years certainly tends to radicalize, but there is a huge difference between leading to it and justifying it. As for "taking it up with Jamyl", this is another issue. Again, you are the only ones responsible for what you do, eventually, whatever you had to endure.
Arturo Ramirez
Caballos Del Infierno
#38 - 2011-12-31 02:10:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Arturo Ramirez
What you're talking about is all very commendable, but it has a fedo's armpit to do with answering Captain Fehrnah's question.

While I understand it's sometimes hard to resist having a shot at your 'opposite numbers' from your captain's armchair, please remember that some members of the capsuleer comminity are trying to better themselves by learning about other cultures.
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#39 - 2011-12-31 03:46:51 UTC
I believe Ura's questions have been answered to her satisfaction.

And to Rodj blake

You need more fiber.

That is all.

Ava

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#40 - 2012-01-02 07:10:33 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:

Painting everyone who supports the Amarrian Empire to be a slaver is pretty hypocritical when you take the above tone.

Further hypocritical that you hate hypocrites. Their actions may inadvertently allow the continuation of enslavement to be the status quo, but that's like calling the Matari who fight in the TLF a bunch of bloodthirsty terrorists who wish for nothing more than ethnic cleansing. Second guessing people's motives makes assumptions, and you know what they say about assumptions..


Painting every member of the 24IC a Slaver is bigotist, you'd do well to remember that.




Aww Cael I thought we were buddies. Don't go all Farel on me now. The air up on that high horse of hers is way too thin to support too many people.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

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