Player Features and Ideas Discussion

pretty much this, drop the tank bonus and add an application bonus

Give it a bonus to webifier strength to make up for the lower speed in scram range without making it viable for light missile kiting.

Not one normally to participate in an echo chamber but CCP changing the speed of the Jackdaw is appreciated while the interia and mass changes make using (oversized) prop mods even more penalising (my interpretation) in terms of acceleration.

I don't think the jackdaw should be 6/5/3 or anything but what it is because that would be homogenising the races and you'll just ***** about it should that happen.

I think that the jackdaw does respectable dps as it is, my (as yet unkilled fit) does 250dps with light missiles and can still burn and tank quite well. A rocket variant of the fit does some 340dps which makes it nearly catalyst levels of beastly. I don't think at this time that modifying the jackdaws damage output is a good move.

The changes to the tank of the jackdaw surprises me slightly but at the same time it kind of doesn't. I never considered a 5%/level hp buff as being overly strong compared to active tank fits which can stay alive for much longer. Buffer only protects against alpha, local reps protects against high dps. I never built myself an MSE jackdaw so my commentary here can only be somewhat limited.

Increasing damage application is also something I don't think the jackdaw needs or deserves. As one gentleman long ago pointed out most shield ships tend to fit upwards of 50% more tank than armour fits at the expense of any application mods/rigs and that this was the area which required attention. While I only partially agreed with him at the time now I see more of his side of the debate and tend to fit my missile ships with at least one rigor rig in order to press home that damage mechanic advantage missiles have over turrets.

I think that the real issues we're facing with the jackdaw is that we're still using modules which haven't undergone a comprehensive rebalancing yet, whereas small projectiles at least have - and things like hulltanking benefits armour tanking ships more than it does shield tanks. This is limiting for shield ships as they're already starved for slots and particularly for missile users who have trouble with application and/or range. Our ships have less flexibility in fitting. Some outlier gimmick ships like buffer-armour ravens exist but battleships are in a league of their own and comparing them to smaller ships is kind of a disservice to everyone involved.

So at the moment instead of everyone flipping the **** out and hurling abuse at Fozzie&co give the changes a chance to get tested by the player base, observe the new fitting meta and then provide feedback. Everything in EvE has a butterfly effect - we know this - fits fit to fight a fit get counter-fits fit to fight that fit and then the original fit is modified to fight against the fit fit to fight its fit.

I'm calling for moderation here people. I'm calling for rationality to prevail and give the jackdaw the testing it NEEDS before criticism is leveled. The jackdaw has already seen one interim balance pass which leaves it more balanced right now than the svipul and confessor were on release.

Giving the Jackdaw an ECCM bonus would make it inconsistent with the rest of the T3.

Look at the other ships in the T3 line and follow suit when it comes to bonuses.

rabble rabble fix corax pg/cpu/speed

For LML and rocket boats with tank and missile damage/range/velocity type bonuses we already have the Garmur, Talwar, (the ineffective in PVP) Corax, and various Flycatcher and Heretic "combat interdictor" fits. Also as mentioned earlier in this thread, the Caracal is king of cheap light missile barrages and will outperform the Jackdaw in many ways. Only the Orthrus and Scythe Fleet Issue can be fit in a way that challenges the Caracal's status. But both are reasonably expensive to balance it out.

My point is - why do we want to make another version of any of these ships? We already have so many boats with missile velocity and explosion bonuses. I'd rather have fitting warriors pop on Hydraulic Bay Thrusters to make the Jackdaw perform similarly.

That's why I'm still in favor of a few "grab bag" bonuses. Unique bonuses that are suited to Caldari and add to the Jackdaw's versatility.

A broad ECM range bonus or effectiveness bonus would be very cool. The Jackdaw should be difficult to probe in the tradition of the Tengu with high sensor strength.

For the final one how about either an afterburner bonus (seen on Sansha faction ships with Caldari requirements), a strong missile launcher reload speed bonus, or something else unique. Cycle bonuses are often hard to wrap our heads around, but could be interesting. Imagine a bonus to Afterburner cycles allowing quick pulsing.

I agree with these repeated comments that it is lacking in stats. But it should find a niche and then be fine-tuned.

And while we're at it, just make every HAC a Ishtar copy?

Nobody will force you to fly a jackdaw, if it's not to your liking. Let CCP try something new.
People were bitching about how bad the svipul will be prior to its introduction and now they are complaining it is flown to much...

The only (minor) issue I have right now is the cap usage of all the nasties one can put in midslots...

edit: but yeah, the HP flat is boring. A Bonus for remote SeBo or cap usage of painters would be super awesome.

oh no!1!, two of the logistic cruisers do not have cap transfer bonus and are more aligned to small gang than big fleets. CCP please fix this issue! I detect unequal footing.
-> better make the jackdaw use hybrids then, we do not want the T3Ds to be too different from each other...

of course one can troll with semantics

How about this for a bonus.

Give the ship a 7% reduction in cap effect from shield power relays. That way at level v you dont loose any cap from using a srp.