Player Features and Ideas Discussion

What happened to Rise anyway? Aren't those ships his creation? I don't follow any CCP twitters

Should read *Battleship>ABC>cruisers>destroyers>frigates>ABC*. Take a 1v1 basis and show me the BS fitted for solo that loses to a single frig. In gangs, Muninn, Zealot, Ishtar and Caldari HACs easily escape that scheme, but they were tailored to do exactly that in larger numbers. Else, in a XvX scenario, BS would very likely still triumph over other choices, since your sig/movespeed barely matters once you're triplewebbed and the attackers are spread 15km away from each other, meaning you can only outrun the tracking of one at a time. It's the type of downsides they bring for big scales that dequalify them for doing what they'd supposed to be best at.

Most people are godawful at flying BS, you see footage of people approaching T1 cruisers and shooting void instead of keeping range and a lot more oftenly I experience that, being shot by a bigger hull without any efforts by the pilot to minimize transversal. Then those usually come around *BS are ***** when they are just bad themselves actually.
Talking fleets is obviously a completely different thing, with collective volley being as high as you wish (just write CTA to that ping) and bombers being as cheap/effective/efficient as they are.

As it currently stands though, destroyers are arguably in the worst space out of all ships atm. They got poor tanks with the exception of overpropped+unwebbed T3Ds, huge sigs and are moving very slowly in general. Less adressing the base speed but their propped ones. The Talwar is the one viable destroyer - only due to its mwd-sigrad-bonus and acceptable speed for a LML boat with 70km range.

Edit: I remember CCP Fozzie starting off the Cruiser revamp with *First, we're increasing velocity by around 20% across the board*. We actually wanted that. Now I've seen what cruisers with fair slot layouts and decent hull traits can accomplish, and I don't think all of those 20% were needed.

Yes I was generalizing hull size rather than specifics because T2's start messing things up if one gets too low level.

1v1 is a poor example, small gang is probably best as then we avoid running into alpha issues. The meta is currently set such that the best ratio of speed/dps/tank (in that order) is king and that's always coming down with cruisers. Certainly, there are BS comps cruisers will flee from (RR domis being a favourite), however without a strategic objective to force them to stay on field it's cruisers or bust. You can disengage from anything nasty you don't like (except a blob of frigs but blobs are blobs) and can kill well over your weight class (with exceptions noted). Even where you are forced on field, HACs do bad things to battleships (fair enough) with no real counterplay save "BRING MOOOOAR!" (not fair enough), range dictation/DPS dictation wins.

Throwing logi in the mix and it gets even worse because the raw buffer matters less and the damage mitigation of small hull size makes all the difference and native resists are identical up the hull sizes and stacking penalties stop the bigger ships really doubling down hard on the resist front. This has actually only just hit me - does seem weird a logi is going to rep a Rokh as effectively as it will a Moa. Actually less so because Rokh takes more damage!

Perhaps it's just me, but I just feel the cruiser sized hulls do too much, too well.


ed:


Nothing wrong with that, but give them meaningful predators. Something that can hunt them. Get the Scissors back in rock, paper scissors.

Regarding RR setups that has as much to do with generating cap out of thin air and remote reps being more powerful and accessible than local reps.

Hey everyone. Thanks for the feedback so far, especially those of you who have been testing on SISI.

We're making a couple tweaks that should be in the next SISI build for you to try out.

• Changing the 5% shield HP bonus to a +50 shield HP per level (generally toning down the bonus a bit, especially when fitting multiple extenders)
• +1 Powergrid
• -50 Shield HP
• +50 Armor HP
• +10 Velocity
• +0.2 Inertia
• -50,000kg mass
• -25 scan resolution

So now it has a free small shield extender, which are widely regarded as not worth, making the large buffer and passive regen fits much more difficult to pull off, while getting a single point of PG, which does not do much to enable the fits which weren't abusing this bonus, while becoming less agile but faster overall with more effect from prop mods and a mass which now is less than that of several frigates despite being a size class above them? Then nerfing the scan res on top of this change?

I'm glad to see the communities cry for a bit more PG and speed were heeded, but was the further mass reduction and agility change really necessary, especially with the massive cut in power of the HP bonus?

Worse, on a destroyer.

I could see 100Hp/lvl being a strong tank bonus which doesn't scale insanely with dual MSE or single LSE fits, but 50 is too weak to matter more than one good salvo.

a little bizarre ..

why even bother with 250 hp? .. might aswell remove it .. maybe add a 5% exp velocity bonus
still keeping the excessive 6 mids.. .. even a ferox doesn't get that many .. 2 sizes up

This is dead on. Even with perfect fitting skills it needs some fitting rig help to everything it needs. And it is slow. On the plus side, with a nano in the low, it aligns from full stop to warp in about 2 seconds. 3 seconds from the undock.

I have no doubt what-so-ever that sub-2-second align times can be had.

Ok i'm going to suggest something kinda radical (and will probably be met with ire and forum chest beating) but it may allow for more interesting small gang fights and reduce its effectiveness in a solo situation.

Instead of a 50HP shield per level make it a remote shield rep amount per level, something sane being as realistically your only going to have 1 slot available most times for the remote rep. depending on how impacting this is you can either keep the 6 mids or reduce it to 5 (i'll be honest, not entirely thought out the mids for this situation)

This change would add an interesting twist on the Cal T3 dessie which would actually make an impact (unlike the 50hp/lvl) and would work well with other T3ds (not only other Jackdaws but also Svipuls and many other shield gangs)

Yes i'm also well aware that this could also introduce a frigate/dessie sized tinker setup but really, that would also be more interesting than 50hp/lvl...


Let the flames begin.