Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I've managed to find a fit that kind of works. Currently 7 kills no losses, victims so far are 3x jackdaws, 2xsvipul, dragoon, confessor. I'll post the fit here when it dies.

I don't necessarily think the ship is fine but it sure isn't great. Anything with more speed will be able to beat this ship. It's not a revelation to point that out but I don't think cruisers should be able to catch and kill it. If a small ship has to sacrifice so much speed then it should be compensated accordingly and in this case I don't think it has.

pretty amazing how long destroyers have been slower than cruisers for. it makes no sense whatsoever. if it's ok for dictors to go as fast as they do, it should be ok for T1s to go that fast. I'm not saying it is though - sensible gaps between classes would be nice, without just buffing everything.

^ What this guy said..... dessies should be faster than cruisers. It makes no sense for a bigger ship to be able to outrun and catch smaller ships.

Edit: Oh yes you did. Honestly, those cruisers that are faster tend to have about half the HP and maybe 30% more DPS if that. These are fights that can go both ways but it seems to me the jackdaw is good as it is, it has power without overwhelming everything one class below and one class above the way svipuls still do. Hulls are not meant to be overpowered.

Edit:also noticed your jackdaw fit is still missing, indicating it did not blow up yet :D

Right. So. Let's talk opportunity costs, given that tactical destroyers are a ship class based around choice. What is it that you give up, like, really give up, when you choose a certain configuration?

Propulsion Mode

Arguably, this mode has the lowest opportunity cost (ie. you give up the least when you're in it). You are "fast" (hahahaha watch almost anything either kite you or shut off your MWD (because you can't fit a 10mn AB due to grid constraints and have the ship function otherwise)). The sole reason is that it makes you roughly as agile as the other two T3 destroyers feel outside of their propulsion mode. So you can align to a celestial and run away as soon as anything that could kill you is on grid, which let's be honest, is most things, despite your "tank". Which you have less of in propulsion mode anyways. Leaving this mode is probably suicide. Who am I kidding, flying this ship over a Svipul is suicide.

Defense Mode

There's less of a reason to use this configuration. Why? Well, for one thing, you now turn like a battlecruiser, and are roughly the same speed as one too. But if you've kitted out the Jackdaw with the only fittings that really make sense at first glance, your signature radius has exploded, and the reduction bonus doesn't really bring it back in line because again- the thing's slow. And takes roughly ten seconds to align, with good skills. But at least you've got those shield resistances boosted, right? Well, since you're slow, something can just pin you down and call in more of their friends to kill you. All it does is extend the time in which it takes before you see the Jackdaw explode.

Sharpshooter Mode

Don't use it. The opportunity cost of switching into sharpshooter mode is high enough that it might as well not even be part of the ship. You lose the "speed boost" and increased agility, giving you battlecruiser handling. You also do not have the shield resistance bonus nor the signature radius bonus of defense mode. So the Jackdaw in sharpshooter mode is slow, made of paper in comparison to things that can catch it (which is what matters), and gets a paltry missile range bonus that doesn't really matter in the long run because the benefit of having it is small compared to the cost of even considering utilizing it.

So what is the problem with this ship?

It honestly seems to me like "flavour" has usurped "sense" in terms of the design of this ship. In an attempt to be "Caldari" it was given all of the stereotypical (and BAD) traits of Caldari ships in past that have made them either less effective or flat out unviable for PvP, relegating them to nothing but shameful PvE ships that nobody would fly over anything else if they have a gram of sense (you know, like before ship Tiericide, when there was absolutely not point to fly a Kestrel over a Rifter even if you liked missiles; you were shafted. Train minmatar, scrublord.)

It is very clear however, that in attempting to promote the Jackdaw's "flavour", stats have been assigned that conflict with the role of tactical destroyers. They're quick adaptable ships, if the Confessor and Jackdaw are anything to consider, with a variety of fitting options. The Jackdaw is railroaded by awful stats into being a shield brawler, but is given so little speed that anything it could kill can just kite it instead, or dance away from the engagement altogether if they didn't feel like flopping their turrets all over the "brick tank" this ship claims to offer. The "choice" you are offered with the Jackdaw's current stat layout and bonuses is either you are in speed mode, or you are dead. The only difference between defense and sharpshooter mode is how quickly you die.

So how can this travesty be repaired?
1. Why is it so slow? Place it's speed somewhere NEAR the Confessor and Svipul. Either between them or just under the Confessor, I don't care. That speed has to go up. 1519m/s outside of propulsion mode. 2019m/s in it. (inb4 "scrub get pirate implants and boosts like a real PvPer"). Molasses.

2. A destroyer handling like a battlecruiser is unacceptable. If you want to go with "well it has less speed and agility by default than the others" then do so- but make it a reasonable amount less. This is not a reasonable amount, if you can compare it's align time to "a slow cruiser". As with speed, make it outside of propulsion mode less agile than the Svipul and Confessor. But not to the point where you can describe it as "a slow cruiser"! That is ludicrous!

3. Increase the damage bonus to rockets. In my opinion the Jackdaw's close range DPS is piddly- I'm aware of the whole "well you can't have it all" thing, but the Jackdaw has nothing in it's current iteration. Furthermore, the Jackdaw has five hardpoints, whereas the others do not. While still having six high slots. If it is going to trade off utility in that way, it must have something in place to act as a benefit, a reason why you'd choose to make that tradeoff in the first place.

4. That awful lack of power grid, and the alleged baked in shield extender. This is a Hobson's Choice. With this, you either fit a 1mn (soon to be 5mn) MWD, or you go without a prop mod, and you still travel at literally two thirds the speed of the other T3 destroyers (in propulsion mode- its half outside of it)- and in fact, are going at a pace such that a great deal of cruisers, who are more heavily armed and roughly just as tanky as you, can catch your Jackdaw. I'm completely fine with losing tank on this ship if it means it'll be able to mitigate damage through speed even just a little bit better than the others (while perhaps still having just a bit more tank by default to make up for it's lesser velocity). Right now, you don't have that.

Also, getting above-average benefits from frigate prop mods isn't enough if other T3 destroyers get full benefits from attempting oversize fits. The Jackdaw's benefits are not great enough.

Cry me a river, Need for Speed ain't gonna happen.

If anything, Confessor/Svipul velocity bonus in Prop mode will get cut from 66.6% to 50%, which still makes them faster than the Jackdaw.

Then take a look at Tech 1 cruiser speeds.

To the God Almighty and the peasants below.

An empty can rattles the most.

You mean the T3D can?

Ten MN afterburner did make a good sound in that can.