Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Meh I can imagine using this as a fast attack dessy like i have a seboed corax for jumping on unsuspecting hacking frigates or sloppy cov op frigates
Does it get any decent scan res with a t2 sebo and in the right mode?

Otherwise it could perhaps work as a more exciting C1 wh pve boat than cerberus / caracal with its low hp tank

With proper skills, getting about those sigs:

2MSE - mwd - LML: 83m sig
2MASB - dp - rockets: 74m sig

An MSE-svipul sits at 64m. An active tanked svipul sits at around 55m.

Since the svipul is about twice as fast out of propulsion, and ~50% faster in propulsion mode, this is quite some huge discrepancy. To add to that, the jackdaw is not really moving or sigtanking anything in defensive mode, being just a tad faster than a cane. So propmode is several times tankier compared to defensive when AB'ing.

The big hit to the nuts here: Sigtanking is made worse by making it slow. But since that's not enough yet, better give it a huge sig, too. The ship is still capable to do things, but when flying the jackdaw it really raises the question why you put up with this and not take a svipul instead.

What are the targets in this scenario, Battle Cruiser and up? Cause almost anything else can prevent you zipping in or out on them.

I get the feeling that they went with the base stats to be really lack luster so that no tactical mode would be overpowered. Unfortunately this make performance while not in those modes kinda bad. I mean to use Sharpshooter or Defense, you are going to be not just be slow but lack agility too.

Align time while not in prop mode is over 9 seconds, 10 ticks. It is like they made it worse than it should be so that the mode buff was not too much. I would rather have a smaller agility buff and better base agility while having the same max agility while in prop mode.

My feeling on the base stats- Defense: average, Propulsion: below average, Offense: average.

And then the modes take it to: Defense: above average, Propulsion: average, Offense: above average

Which makes it feel underwhelming, since you are never really good at any one thing, can only be good at 1 thing at a time, and in prop mode you are just average at everything.

I would like to see 2x average 1x above average as the base. So that in any mode you are good at that role and in one mode very good while average in the other areas.

If this is supposed to be a slow tanky ship then:
Offense should remain about the same: Base>Average, Mode>Above Average.
Deffense should be buffed: Base>Above Average, Mode>Excellent
Propulsion buffed: Base>Average, Mode>Above Average

I think what holds overall defense back is the signature coupled with the need for a MWD for any reasonable speed. I think if the sig was dropped to 60, base speed increased to 190, and better base inertia that could make up a lot of the shortcomings without making it OP.

The shield tank is above average, but the signature and lack of speed is bellow average. Which makes its overall defense just average in my view.

My complaint is, that on paper, it does not look "amazing at fighting frigates dessies and cruisers all at the same time." It looks like a ship that will require a lot of skill to compete against T2 frigates and cruisers. It will probably be very strong against T1 cruiser and down.

Is it so slow that frigates will dictate range and kiting frigates will be a real threat. The speed, DPS, and small signatures of the other T3D, and AF should allow them to brawl against the Jackdaw effectively. Scram range kiting cruisers are a real threat as the Jack will be hard pressed to escape a web+sram. And I don't see the Jackdaw being any better than a T2 HAC and will need to constantly shift modes to have a chance against a competent pilot in a HAC.

So I don't want it to be amazing. I want it to have a chance at being good.

Missile ships rely on rigs to change the application of their missile. So a Jackdaw will have to choose if it wants damage, application, range, tank, or fitting rigs. The velocity bonus of sharpshooter mode only lets the missile catch the target, it does not help apply damage. So most frigates with a prop mods are taking a significant reduction in damage before resists.

The fitting of the Jackdaw will determine what it is really good at. I want it to be at least average in the areas that it is not really good at. It is supposed to be a versatile T3 ship that uses its modes to switch what it is good at. And for it to achieve that goal, that means not starting with such low base numbers that it is actually bad at something while not in a that mode. The speed, agility, scan res are all worse than a T1 Destroyer. The signature is at the high end but not the worst. I'd like to see stats that are a little closer to T1 levels and bonuses in tactical mode that make them strong in that mode not just a little better. Of the stats the shield tank with T3 resists is the best thing it has. Now bring it up slightly in some other areas to make that mean something and we have a worthwhile T3D.

You can fit the Jack to be amazing at range in sharpshooter mode or to have amazing tank in or out of defense mode, but it will never have amazing dps or speed and to make it amazing at any thing you make it lacking in most other areas.

You won't be able to fit it to be amazing at multiple jobs at the same time. But it should be able to be amazing at something in one of the modes without making so sub par in the others.

*looks at your KB, last 3 losses*

*Garmur, Tengu*

*Checks recent, has flown nothing but Gila and Svipul*




*Now understand what it is you want*





Sorry, looks you aren't getting another lowrisk OP missile boat. Guess you'll just have to make do with the other "viable" ships you currently use.


The tantrums in this thread are ridiculous.

That is exactly the case - Confessor employs all 3 modes to even function properly.



That's the whole point of T3 generalisation. Svipul in non-stop Propulsion mode notwithstanding.

The only thing that needs to happen now is: Reduce both the Confessor's and Svipul's Prop mode velocity bonus from 66.6% to 50%.

When T3 destroyers were announced, it was said that they'd be a different take on Tech 3 versatility and unpredictability, hence the 'Tactical Destroyer' class.

Now we're seeing these 'Tactical' destroyers being placed into specific niches rather than what they were originally intended for.

I understand that the Jackdaw is supposed to be the slowest T3 destroyer, but having the native speed on the level of battlecruisers? This eliminates the Jackdaw's viability as a kiting ship, and nudges the ship towards brawling. As I've stated before, these ships are meant to be versatile and unpredictable. The Confessor and Svipul have the ability to kite (and based on rough concept of stats given by CCP, the Hecate) unlike the Jackdaw. You'd need to go far out of your way to make this a viable kiting vessel to the point that switching from propulsion mode would be a death sentence.

Even when you make the ship a brawling vessel, it still doesn't hold a candle to the abilities of the Confessor and Svipul.


In short: Why fly the Jackdaw when the other T3 destroyers outclass it in almost every way?

One thing I noticed on the jackdaw is a 137km lock range in sniper mode. But you'd only hit about 100km with t2 velocity rigs so I'm at a loss? Why even give ships that can't benefit from so much range that much range to start with?

I see. It would be sad if dual-damp condors started killing off t3d's after all, not that someone won't get killed like that anyway.