Player Features and Ideas Discussion

ECM on a scale larger than the small/micro gang is rare, if not nonexistent. The boats designed and bonused for ECM suffer major flaw as a result of the hull themselves as well as flaws in how ECM works.

Many find ECM to be obnoxious, especially in small gang play where one or two ECM boats on one side of an otherwise even fight can completely devastate the enemy fleet. But this kind of dominance does not extend to large scale fights due to the fact that one cannot ECM tank 300 man fights, and these boats do not have the slot layout that can even fit a tank even remotely capable of surviving any of these fights.

So the question becomes how can we change ECM to where it can survive larger fleets but at the same time not become laughably overpowered in small gangs.

This is my proposal...

1. Make ECM a high slot module with similar fitting requirements.
2. Limit each ship to 1 ECM modules.
3. Allow the fitting of additional ECM modules with Role or Level Bonuses on ECM boats.
4. Shift the layouts of ECM boats to allow fitting a modest shield tank and prop mod.

These 3 are the major changes that I will go into the most. Some other changes are...

1. Remove SDA's and give a moderate buff to default Jammer Strength and Range.
2. Convert Racial Jammers into Racial Scripts that are loaded into Multispectrum Jammer, with a 1 minute load time.

Or alternatively, remove Racial Jammers and have multiple ECM module type for weapons systems: Turret/Missile/Drone/Rep, where on a successful jam a set number or percentage of turrets/drones/launchers/repairers become unusable.

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The main problem with ECM boats is that for every 2.5 ECM modules you get an effective 1 Jam. So unlike TP/Web/Scram that give you the guaranteed effect so long as you are in range, ECM require multiple modules just to have an effect. In addition with TP/Web having multiple on a single ship has an stacking effectiveness, whereas having multiple ECM on a single ship only increase jam chance, not duration or any other metric that makes a successful jam "better."

Because of the above ineffectiveness, ECM boats require all their Mids, minus a Prop Mod, to be fitted into ECM modules. And those ECM modules need the Lows to be fitted with SDA's to actually be effective. This leaves no room for a shield or an armor tank, but plenty of room in the high slots for launchers and guns that in 90% of scenarios will never be used to any effective degree. For an ECM boat, the ECM itself is the weapon.

Moving ECM to the High slot would free up the Mid Slot for a shield tank and prop mode, and the lows could remain for DCU+SDAs.

Now with ECM being a high slot module people will say that it can be abused by the boats that have multiple utility highs. And the beauty is that ECM is already balanced around being ****** on non-bonused ships. A T2 racial jammer on a non-bonused ship grants at most a 50% chance to jam a T1 frigate so having them as a utility high will not all of a sudden see it as the best utility high, but probably the opposite. For ships with 1 Utility high a nuet or SB would probably give more bang than a single ECM. But just in case, like warfare links, there could be a limit to one per ship.

With this limit ECM boats would need some way to fit more than one. And this can be a role bonus or a level bonus.

The Griffin and Kistune could have: "Role: Can fit 3 additional ECM modules" bringing their total up to their current 4.

The Blackbird could have "Role: Can fit 4 additional ECM modules" bringing their total up to their current 5.

The Rook and Falcon could have Recon Ship bonus of "Can fit one additional ECM module per level" bringing both theirs to 6

The Tengu could have a Role bonus on both the Offensive/Engineering SS that combined bring its total to 5.

The Scorpion/Wifow could have either bonus or both bringing their total to 7

With the change to needing many highslot for ECM modules, these ECM boats would need far less mids. Meaning that ECM boats will need a layout overhaul.

Each ship should have 1 Mid for Prop Mod plus...

Griffin: 1 Tank Mid
Kitsune: 2 Tank Mid (With T2 Resists)
Blackbird: 3 Tank Mid
Rook: 3 Tank Mid (With HAC resists)
Falcon: 3 Tank Mid (with current Resists)
Tengu: Varies
Scorpion: 5 Tank Mid
Widow: 6 Tank Mid

With the above amount of mids would not grant them HAC level tanks but enough to were they can hold on field with good logi. The Mids they do lose will be shifted into High Slots were most of these boats will see similar Launchers/Hardpoints but will not have the Max Launchers + Max ECM, which would give the pilot the choice between having some teeth or being a full utility boat; without any weapons plus max ECM each boat should have 1 Utility High and in the Falcons case 2.

Secondary Points

Why Racial Jammers should be converted to Scripts.

Currently having good intel and being able to swap out your useless jams to useful ones is good. But there becomes the issue about having to swap them out with a mobile depot and carrying a bunch of jammers in your cargo hold. It would be much simpler to have them as a loaded script that could change a Multi-Jam into a Racial Jam. Now to balance around this convenience the time it took to do it with a depot should still come into account. Giving a 60-90 second load time would provide you with the tactical advantage of having intel on the enemy fleet as well as giving you a disadvantage for not having that intel. In addition you could change your jams mid fight at the cost of not having that jam available. This change could be in response to another fleet comp arriving on field or a specific threat to you or your fleet that needs to be jammed.

think ecm should just be removed altogether

First: Yes, I deleted part of the quoted post because I want to reply to that particular part.

- A W E S O M E -

If it would take a minute to switch the script, that'd be amazing. Never again is the most vital decision *But did I fit the correct jams*, but rather what you do with your jams. ASB-fits run their charges, bounce and return to the fight with fresh charges, ECM behaving similar would be great imo.

ECM mechanics are as unattractive as it could be in smaller gangs, but this would be a step forward.







Arguably it might be worth checking again with recently acquired fresh know-how, where each module should belong regarding high/mid/low. Recons/ewar cruisers got a number of high slots, yet curse/pilgrim are the only ones actually using them.

*A plate* on its own is a long way from *a tank*. To state the point of discussion: Compare a Celestis and a Blackbird.

Ok how would this make ECM OP in small gangs...

Right now you get 2 EAF or 2 Falcons and you use the ECM for tank. This isnt possible for large fleet engagements because there will be holes that can easily alpha you. Also what are you classifying as small gang. EWAR ships can still be jammed. If your saying it would be OP if one gang brought EWAR and the other gang didn't that is not overpowered, that is prepared.

Lockbreakers and ECM Bursts have the problem on only breaking locks, they don't jam. If they did than that would be fine.

The other EWAR works in big fights for two reasons, they are able to use all their mids for EWAR while still using all their lows for tank. ECM damn near requires their lows for decent jams. Meaning they either bring subdecent jams and a armor tank or subdecent tank and good jams. Now this would where people would argue that this conundrum is where the balance lies, and this is where we look at the fact that the balance lies in ECCM and Remote ECCM, and a naturally scaling sensor strength.

In addition it would be a nerf to small gangs, as the multispectrum would be weaker than it is now, and you would be vulnerable while switching to racial jams. Giving the unprepared or uninformed ECM pilot a huge disadvantage.

What exactly is wrong with armor scorpions again? I have used them extensively in (for wormholes and my corp at the time) decent sized fights. Nothing on nullsec block war i'll grant you but it wasnt 4 dudes against 5 dudes on some random gate somewhere...

You probably have nice logi who hooked you up. When I did this I was always nice to the logi anyway. goes a long way to not dying if they actually like you for maybe better service lol. I would fit remote eccm even for one lucky logi. And remote rep with cap injection to half ass spider rep if needed.


Beyond that large fights can be just (bad) luck of primary draw really. Shield or armour enough people want you dead, you die lol. But this for any ship really. Scorp just tends to be ship you move up the primary list.


He goes on about other e-wars....their effect not as debilitating as ECM imo. Lower primary value the result. I can counter damps and such with flying/fit(edit :more readily than ecm with say sensor backup array and eccm for 2 mods used up). TP iffy with sig ofc....but sigs affects are just one piece of damage/tracking calcs. Damps good for range control but if I wanted to be up close we could say well you have me right where I wanted to be anyway lol. Basically if I had an arazu or falcon in reach and not hitting me yet....falcon would die first. And if in range next best target after that rather than hump it to the arazu.

Nuuuuuuuuuuuh.
It definitely needs to stay for logi interruption.

ECM to prevent dps is bad mechanic but jamming logis is something PVP definitely needs.

What would the alternative be for Caldari EWAR. I mean you could take TP's from Min and leave them as web boats. Or a complete rework of ECM, but off the top of my head I can't think of what would replace it besides may anti drone/bomb defender missile ships, with a defender missile rework but ECM could be fine if the cycles where shorter and failed a bit more

In small gangs jams are so effective, you only get short windows of unhindered fire. If the ECM boat can mount a regular cruiser tank on top of the jammers, it would basically be unkillable.

You are yourself quoting the Scorpion and Tengu as viable in larger engagements. So what exactly is your point here? In small engagements you pick the cheap frigate and cruiser sized jammers and accept that they die if you leave the ennemy the opportunity to take a few shots at them. If you need more robust jamming boats, you need to bring a BS or T3.