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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Carnyx] The Jackdaw

First post
Author
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#221 - 2015-05-14 15:41:53 UTC
I really don't see the jackdaw being as bad as people make it out to be. Most certainly it is underwhelming compared to the other T3Ds, but a small gang of them have terrifying application to that range and volley.

One decent cookie cutter I ran across had mwd, 2 MSEs, an EM ward, point and web, with a BCS+nano in the lows and LMLs and combat probes in the highs. Two ACRs and a missile speed rig. Three of them easily push your collective volley towards 5k.
Then in Propmode, you burn closer to or further from something you want to point. Then you switch to defensive mode and soak up roughly 15k ehp before you go into propmode again, pull range and switch over to sharpshooter for 55km fury and 80km CN range, while one of your mates takes over tackle and you wait for your shields to come up again.
In a mixed gang, the jackdaw does a variation of the svipuls job. It too can combat probe things, but instead of clinching a target, you can zip around and screen heavier ships while applying dps to primaries half across the grid.

In short: Jackdaw is underwhelming compared to T3Ds, but feels superfluffy and caldari and actually is a decent ship in a small gang.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#222 - 2015-05-14 16:03:48 UTC
Tbh given the cost, I'd be more inclined to just run a bunch of caracals to achieve the same thing, but without needing to retreat to address shields.

I mean, they're ok and all but just lack a certain....pizzazz* and niche. That's where I really struggle - finding a niche to put them in. There are a couple, but they are so narrow I'm left wondering why.


*Note this doesn't need to be a "power" thing, just some more style. For example I'd have liked to see them test out making them more alpha based, perhaps with negatives to RoF to compensate. You know, something different,
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#223 - 2015-05-14 16:53:09 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Tbh given the cost, I'd be more inclined to just run a bunch of caracals to achieve the same thing, but without needing to retreat to address shields.

I mean, they're ok and all but just lack a certain....pizzazz* and niche. That's where I really struggle - finding a niche to put them in. There are a couple, but they are so narrow I'm left wondering why.


*Note this doesn't need to be a "power" thing, just some more style. For example I'd have liked to see them test out making them more alpha based, perhaps with negatives to RoF to compensate. You know, something different,


the whole point of T3 is too avoid a specific niche entirely .. instead offers versatility and adaptability.. atm though all T3's are just plain better than the current niche ships (T2 ships)

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#224 - 2015-05-14 17:14:12 UTC
The last two days I was trying to figure this boat out but for the live of me it wasn't successful. The bullet points have been covered by now and only little comes to mind.

The shield hp bonus feels out of place on that ship and unvoluntarly forces the ship into a pre-fit kind of fitting and flying the ship in a pre-set fit in the mind of the creator.

Yeah, we get it you don't like missiles so why not make the blueprint have the buffer fit preassembled when the ship comes out of the bakery so the more than obvious weaknesses get masked in a shiney package?

The Confessor and that minmatar thing make fun of the Jackdaw or leave whenever they think they don't like to be there anymore, every time.

If you were to engage something like three Tristans in lowsec they will dismantle the Jackdaw so quickly that the unlucky pilot doesn't even know what's happening all the while the Confessor and that minmatar monstrocity would have made jokes about 'only three of them'.

It was already mentioned that one medslot could move in the lows and I would suggest baking the inertia bonus into the hull and increase the base speed of the Jackdaw by 33% in propulsion mode instead.

And while we are talking about missiles, we should talk rockets a bit. Rockets have been a joke since the day I joined and maybe they deserve to be made into a proper small missiles instead for once.
So a renaming would go a long way in public relations in favor of the rockets and when they have a cool name like 'small or light attack missile' and they would definately need an increase of base damage by 25%.

No hold your breath for a minute and let this sink in. On the first look 25% sounds like a ton and I already hear the outcry of OP on comms later today already.
In any case an example should put your minds at ease and 25% of 100 isn't that much all of a sudden anymore.

(And in case of the Jackdaw with one tech2 ballistic control one rocket volley would go from 460hp to 575hp damage rage rocket damage flying 8434 meters into the void hitting or not a shield or armor layer with 50% or less % of that 575hp every 1.8 seconds or 2 server ticks.)

Keep in mind that missiles do not really work in terms of dps and not all dps that your fitting screen shows is the same as the other dps and if people would finally realize and memorize it until the end of time some of our lifes would be much easier.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#225 - 2015-05-14 17:28:22 UTC
Fun ship, but compared to the other two that are out... it's a joke.

Been around since the beginning.

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#226 - 2015-05-14 17:58:58 UTC
the HP bonus is out of place on a T3 ship its supposed to offer versatility and adaptability, thus the modes if you want the extra tank , mobility etc.. having hp baked in violates this theme, tracking or even just run with 1 bonus is the logical choice here.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#227 - 2015-05-14 18:01:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
Harvey James wrote:
the HP bonus is out of place on a T3 ship its supposed to offer versatility and adaptability, thus the modes if you want the extra tank , mobility etc.. having hp baked in violates this theme, tracking or even just run with 1 bonus is the logical choice here.


You mean like the Svipul? Blink

* * *


The Sig radius reduction in Defensive mode is identical to the Confessor, and could be replaced with Increased shield regeneration rate if it is balanced through high base hull shield recharge time, or Decreased Shield Booster activation cost is also an option.

☑ Not a gimmick
☑ Not OP
☑ Adds variety

Talk to us CCP. (╯°□°)╯
Solarus Explorer
The Veterans' Lounge
#228 - 2015-05-14 18:19:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Solarus Explorer
I think the devs are underestimating the importance of speed in the current meta. There is a reason the garmur and orthrus are totally OP..... the ability to completely dictate range via speed and manouverability..... alongwith the ability to point and apply dps at that range.

The confessor and svipul will be superior boats to this ship, they have more speed and manouverability as well as significantly higher dps (though they have a lesser tank). Frankly, tank is irrelevant if u cant catch anything and everything else in the game can catch you when it wants to, cause it will be prepared when it does...... and then it will kill you irrespective of your tank.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#229 - 2015-05-14 18:38:35 UTC
Therefore, we need less cancer, not more cancer.

Reduce the 66.6% Velocity bonus in Prop mode for the Confessor and Svipul to 50%, and Jackdaw's Inertial modifier bonus from 66.6% to 50% = They become only 110-450 m/s faster than the Jackdaw, instead of 350-800 m/s right now.
Solarus Explorer
The Veterans' Lounge
#230 - 2015-05-14 18:40:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Solarus Explorer
Honestly, IMO the cancer reduction should start from bringing over-speeding cruisers back in line, and reigning in the garmur and orthrus. They are already faster than the current t3ds.

Just my 2 cents.....
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#231 - 2015-05-14 18:47:52 UTC
Solarus Explorer wrote:
Honestly, IMO the cancer reduction should start from bringing over-speeding cruisers back in line, and reigning in the garmur and orthrus. They are already faster than the current t3ds.

Just my 2 cents.....

In the same patch they then kill offgrid boosting forever. Assuming brain in a box is working.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#232 - 2015-05-14 20:17:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
Solarus Explorer wrote:
Honestly, IMO the cancer reduction should start from bringing over-speeding cruisers back in line, and reigning in the garmur and orthrus. They are already faster than the current t3ds.

Just my 2 cents.....


On average, they are equal and slightly slower than T3Ds in Propulsion mode, with few notable exceptions like the Nomen, Orthus and most Matari boats.

But I see your point.

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#233 - 2015-05-14 22:59:15 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Dual prop (or even triple prop fits) can be incredibly powerful, combining speed & signature tanking.
And yes, over-fitting is another interesting choice. Getting back a chunk of the speed but loosing agility.


A 'choice' that the Jackdaw cannot make anymore by 'design'. Maybe it escapes the drawing board but a regular web will pin down the Jackdaw so hard the buffer tank only buys you a few more seconds to watch your boat go boom.

728m/s with a tech2 1mn afterburner doesn't feel 'propelled' at all and with a mwd the signature of that boat is a slower Naga. So either make it immune to stasis webs or give them a Sansha like small ab speed bonus.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#234 - 2015-05-15 04:57:01 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Dual prop (or even triple prop fits) can be incredibly powerful, combining speed & signature tanking.
And yes, over-fitting is another interesting choice. Getting back a chunk of the speed but loosing agility.


A 'choice' that the Jackdaw cannot make anymore by 'design'. Maybe it escapes the drawing board but a regular web will pin down the Jackdaw so hard the buffer tank only buys you a few more seconds to watch your boat go boom.

728m/s with a tech2 1mn afterburner doesn't feel 'propelled' at all and with a mwd the signature of that boat is a slower Naga. So either make it immune to stasis webs or give them a Sansha like small ab speed bonus.


When someone figures out what the jackdaw is supposed to do let me know.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#235 - 2015-05-15 06:06:44 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:


When someone figures out what the jackdaw is supposed to do let me know.



It's a stealth buff for heavy missiles, finally there's something they can shoot at besides npc's.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#236 - 2015-05-15 08:40:33 UTC
Ahh this is some funny stuff.

First CCP learn absolutely no lessons from the broken mess that is T3 cruisers, implement a second arbitrarily overpowered line of ships - but make an exception on the OPness for the Caldari one because of their standard "**** Caldari" doctrine.

This is of course assuming the Gallente one is going to follow the trend of the first two and will be a hilariously overpowered pwnmobile that obsoletes T1. If not, well at least they're picking on two races and not just their usual buttmonkey.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#237 - 2015-05-15 08:45:47 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Caleb Seremshur wrote:


When someone figures out what the jackdaw is supposed to do let me know.



It's a stealth buff for heavy missiles, finally there's something they can shoot at besides npc's.


I was being sincere. Fwiw a jackdaw with active reps and a strong blue doesn't do toooooo bad. Even if the blue fires and you get a hp nerf it's still only 5% less than base stats which isnt too shabby when you take in to account the resist bonus.
Heinrich Rotwang
Spectre Fleet Corporation
#238 - 2015-05-15 08:57:32 UTC
If this ship has got a winning fit, it is well hidden.
Arla Sarain
#239 - 2015-05-15 09:50:15 UTC
ITs pretty much exclusively either a rocket fit with dual webs for rage rockets, which WILL apply full damage, and then racks of resist amps and an invuln field.

Or a LML fit with TPs, TDs and damps.

The sig bonus is useless. The ship has a 70m sig radius.
Marian Devers
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#240 - 2015-05-15 10:42:22 UTC
You can always bet on a caldari thread to have the wittiest comments! =)