EVE General Discussion

All you ever brought was "herp derp gankz hard needz peepz press F1z leetz skilz" which never really required any crushing, due to being the main source of the opinion on how easy and free ganking is.

You need evidence that catalyst is free? Career agents await.
You need evidence that catalyst N+1 can't be tanked against? Mathz await.
You need evidence that pressing F1 is easy? Keyboards await.

Talos ganks are even easier than catalyst ganks because they need less trained F1 pressing dogs. But they have cost. Catalyst ganks have no cost, and therein lies the problem. Failing a Talos gank, you lose something, failing a Catalyst gank you lose only free ships. This is where the risk becomes too low. This is the point I'm asking to fix. Don't be confused.

So in other words, you don't understand how carreer agents work, nor how value works, since you think that they give out free catalysts.
You don't understand how tanking works, since you think that N+1 catalysts can't be tanked.
You don't understand how ganks work, since you think it's a matter of pressing F1

The only evidence you've provided is that you don't know anything about EVE, much less about ganking.
Yes, the problem is that you think catalysts have no cost, when there is no conceivable metric that would ever let you say that.

The one thing that is certain about this thread ...
... is that it provides enough data for a long and detailed petition.

If it's so commonplace, how come the vast majority of ships survive? How come only a tiny handful of groups are doing it (which, by the way, is part of what makes it so much easier to avoid now)? How come it hasn't seen any growth? How come CCP's stats contradict your baseless assumptions about losses? How can it have be made easer when it has only ever received nerfs?

There is risk because there is no way to hack the mechanics involved to remove it, and even if there was such a thing as free ships (there isn't), it would still not remove the risks. All you are saying here is that you have almost no idea of what “risk” means.

Luck is required because without it, there will be nothing to gank. Your assumption that I'm talking about the loot fairy (that does not operate on the simplistic maths you are also ignorantly assuming) demonstrates that you don't understand where the income comes from.

Oh, and by the way, the methods you mention have been tried and proven to be very successful. They're just being dismissed by the people who haven't tried them on the baseless assumption that it wouldn't work so why bother.

…except that if we're going for wholly unrealistic scenarios, then I'm going to say that you can log in, find a free-floating can of 200 PLEXes, log out, and have earned six orders of magnitude more in the same timespan. By the way, your scenario offers an ISK/h that is roughly on par with mining Scordite or running L3 missions. Had you been familiar with the mechanics, tactics, and strategies involved, you would have realised before trying to make it sound like it was a lot…

Funny how you manage to shoot your own argument in the foot in your zeal to paint gankers as bad players. You just proved why the chances of surviving are 100%-ε and why ganks are so exceedingly rare: because they are so utterly trivial to avoid. And yes, survival begins the moment you undock the moment you start loading your ship. That is where you set the odds of survival, and they are entirely up to you to set — the gankers themselves are hardly even a factor.

It's how people can (and have) gone years and years without ever being destroyed, ever being a target, or even ever seeing a gank. So much for low chance of survival and being commonplace…

Nice. Both an ignorant strawman and a complete lack of understanding of basic facts of the game.

The bear is at the mercy of the human because the human can choose not to encounter the bear and can also choose, should he want or anticipate that encounter, to just nuke the bear from orbit. Only by a staggering coincidence of ignorance, indifference, inattention, unpreparedness, and outright bad luck on the human's part does the bear stand a chance of doing anything at all. The only people who think that you have to stay locked up are the ones who refuse to actually understand how ganking works because they have already decided, based on nothing, that they are incapable of defending against it.

Beyond that, there is an entire line of ships, mods, skills, and measures to defend against N+1 catalysts (which aren't free, by the way). They deliver so little damage that you need, oh, about (N-1)/2 ships to defend against them, especially in highsec, where they can't do as much damage as they'd otherwise be capable of.

No, I don't know that perfectly well, largely because it's simply not true. The game flat out makes it impossible, and any attempts at circumventing those limits are subject to EULA interventions and bans. I claim that it is so for two reasons: because it is so, and because you keep trying to argue a state of affairs that is made impossible by the game. This makes your case particularly laughable to anyone with even a fleeting understanding of EVE's basic mechanics (to say nothing of anyone who has actually tried to look into how ganking works).

Not only is ganking free in this game, even the minerals you mine yourself are free!! You can then build any ship you want, for free. This means ships are free too. Same for modules. Everything is free!

This game is amazing!

Yeah. I just make t1 fit thrashers and gank any capsule that I can. I just do it for the thrill and I make no isk from it. I have the BPO for the ship and modules I use so I can mine them for cheaper costs. Faction ammo still costs isk, so does the initial BPO, and so does manufacturing costs. So it doesn't cost me too much to gank.

Your myopic perspective of this game, and your obvious attempt to elicit some sort of fight by marginalizing and labeling in a derogatory manner, a player base that is actually playing the game by the rules is “trolling”. Not sure why ISD’s miss this.

Comparing this game to others and wanting this game to be like the others clearly tells the audience you do not understand EvE or why it has been designed and played this way. This is my 10th year, and the reason I stay here and do not play any other game, is because EvE is like no other. And that is the way it should remain.

Now if you are not actually trolling, then it is obvious that your bloviating speaks of an insecure juvenile,



To be clear about one thing, and even the DEV missed the reason (s) why people “Gank”.

I use my main, always have. I want you know who smacked you. My purpose is my own, it satisfies my purpose. And there are quite a few players that do.

One of my purposes was the crusade towards the RMT ice miners. Slamming SB ravens into a group of Macks just to make a point. (No profit, but a solid purpose)

Other times it is based on intel. Shocker I know, playing a game with some sort of motivation to shut down someone’s war making capability because they tried to hide their operation in high sec. (no individual profit, but a solid operational purpose)

Imagine that, nothing about making any sort of isk and willing not to make a profit for a bigger purpose.

That is playing a game way over your head, and beyond your myopic understanding of how the game “can” be played.

Sol, you tried to claim that he's not just trolling by spewing his nonsense, and then list several reasons that show he is, in fact, trolling.

Just wanted to point that one out.

It is obvious to everyone that he has no clue about the game. He is obviously just another mad highsec miner. I think he should calm down a bit and then get a mining permit. It always helps to let them calm down first, so they realize that they are at the bottom of the food chain and accept their place.