EVE General Discussion

Why does it need to be nerfed? The odds of getting ganked are incredibly low if you are paying attention and not doing anything silly.

You specifically said "but will remove the free N+1 catalyst gank", which suggests that you consider the Catalyst to be in need of a nerf because it's a powerful tool for gankers, while ignoring that such a nerf would also affect newbies looking to get into PvP or low level PvE.

I'd love to see you explain how ganking is so free and easy when the loot fairy is a vicious female dog and the task generally requires a coordinated effort by multiple players to succeed.

Ganking isn't a CCP problem; the problem is that at least 75% of the gankers victims can't be arsed to make an effort to avoid them.

If you want to hurt gankers you should educate other players on how to avoid them, not rely on CCP to legislate them out of existence.

As an aside Eve history shows that gankers will adapt to any change in the game mechanics quite rapidly and endeavour to turn those changes against the people who asked for them; be careful what you wish for.

It needs to be nerfed because it's too free and too easy compared to anything else in eve.
The odds of surviving a gank is infinitely lower than getting ganked. So currently the whole hisec is basically at ganker's whim, as the only thing that protects from a gank is stupidity, lazyness and badness of a ganker, there are no measures one can take to protect himself if he has to pass a ganker den, and ganker dens became ganker dens exactly because there is no way around them. Honestly, this discussion has been on so many times that I can already tell what comes next - "if my lazyness if your defense, adapt and weaponize my lazyness" request from gankers. And calling me bad for not doing it ofc.
Once again, it needs to be nerfed because it's too free and too easy compared to anything else in eve.



Loot fairy will give you 50% in the long run, so complaining about it is like saying "the laws of the universe had sent math and logic for me to be terrible at".

Not to mention that the profitability of ganking is so stupidly high (because it's free and you can pick any reward you want).

"Coordinated" "effort"... really? The only coordination you need is assembling together in one system and not goofing off at F1. I bet my booty you have a client-server piece of software that synchronizes F1 pressing among the crowd, because that's what I'd do if I were to lead a gank - so it would NEVER fail, because really, even my dog can learn a trick of pressing F1 by command.

Once again, the ganking is free because the catalyst is free. The ganking is easy because you need almost no skills (10 hour heroes can do it) and no sentience (ok, one sentience per gank fleet - the rest can be dogs trained to F1 on command, and it will succeed) to do it.


Since apparently it hasn't been made clear enough to people who couldn't be arsed to check the new eden map, there is no way to avoid Uedama-Niarja-Madirmilire trio, and there is no way avoid the gank once you're in them.
If you happen to know how "effort" can create new stargates, please share the thought, otherwise I have to ask you to shut up on account of having no idea of what you're talking about.


"If you want to hurt bears, you should educate people to never get out of their homes, not rely on government to legalize bear population control." /sacrasm
My proposed measure is nowhere near enough to legislate something out of existence - it only hurts the dumbest variety of ganking, like removing the free awox only hurt the dumbest variety of awoxing.


Getting buff after buff and enjoying the harshless zero-risk free-isk variety of eve is hardly adapting. Just show them a real nerf instead of yet another hidden buff, and look at your reaction - scared and full damage control defensive, making treats, hinting the current bottom feeders of eve skill-wise - gankers - are capable of adaption, etc...
I were a miner before Odyssey, so I know quite well that CCP in fact can "legislate out of existence" a whole profession just on a whim. Yet I do not ask for this - what I ask for is, like the free awox removal, the removal of free ganking. The removal of free awox certainly haven't removed awox itself and we certainly haven't drowned in "bad corps" every bad awoxer and his dog cried about (well, there are notable exceptions, but not like they haven't existed before or bloomed because of this change - Karma fleet is one of them).
So, once again, I'm not asking to "remove ganking", I'm asking to "remove FREE ganking", just like free awox has been removed without removing the real awox. This is eve, nothing should be free, and nothing should be free of risk. Since ganking is done with a free ship, and the worst thing you risk is losing a free ship, I say this way of ganking needs to be removed, and I proposed a way to do it that removes it with little to no influence on other, more justifiable ways to gank. So can we stop putting words in my mouth, trying to claim ganking is not free, trying to claim the gank is avoidable, and other nonsensual claims ganking threads are full of, and just admit the truth already?

He can have them from me.

I will happily give him one and he can show that
he is willing to gank people for a good cause.

As there aren't any negative consequences ...
... and ganking is easy and free anyway ...
... there isn't actually ANY reason not to join in.

The only cause people have for ganking is failing at everything else in eve and fixing bleeding self-esteem by claiming that they "got better" by freeshipF1monkeying yet another industrial.


No negative consequences that can't be managed by going afk in a fleetwarped bouncefleet.
Ganking isn't exactly easy - it's too easy. Ganking isn't exactly free - it's just too free.

Reason not to join is simple - not being a failure at eve. Unless you are, you have no reason to gank anyone, ever.

That's complete and utter bollocks, up until very recently I was based 2 jumps from Uedama, I can honestly say that I've hauled stuff through that system hundreds of times and suffered a total of zero losses.

The chances of getting ganked in a choke-point decrease massively if you're not afking a loot pinata with no tank through it.

As for laziness, the gankers have adapted and weaponised the laziness of their targets; are you saying that you're too lazy to do the same?

The loot fairy does indeed have a 50% drop rate, that doesn't mean 50% of the isk value of the potential loot, as I said she's a vicious female dog and she tries to keep the shinies and the PLEX to herself.

A Catalyst is not free, just because someone else may indirectly end up paying for it doesn't make it so. A gank has as much coordination as any other form of gang PvP, the victim sees the 20 second finale to that coordination, they don't see the stuff that happens before that.

With reference to client-server software that allows them to sync F1, it's called TS and comes under the term coordination. It's in common use throughout Eve and the same functionality is built into the client.

There's ways around them, both in space via lowsec/JF's etc, and by using couriers to offload the risk with a guaranteed return regardless of whether or not your goods get to their destination.

Regarding shutting up on account of not knowing what you're talking about, you should follow your own advice, your ignorance is showing.

Continued below.

That's not sarcasm, it's idiocy. If you want to hurt bears you trap and shoot them.

Sound familiar?

Speaking of dumb...

Please name the buffs and allow people with experience to riposte with why they're not the buffs you think they are.

Gankers are definitely capable of adaption, the current meta of multiple high DPS platforms and pilots is an adaptation to the demise of insurance payouts on Concordokkened ships.


Ganking is not free, ganking ships are not free and ganks CAN be avoided; non consensual PvP is a fact, and you consent to it by undocking.

You're wrong, and woefully ignorant. I'm a miner, a manufacturer and a missioner, you're making people, like myself, who do those things while actively avoiding what you see as unavoidable, look bad with your uninformed "facts". Kindly desist.

@Sol, because people might read his tripe and consider it based on reality. Also this

^^Fair enough, I've said my piece. I'm done and my hide posts list has a +1

Setting aside that “too free” doesn't make an sense, If this was even remotely true, ganking would be vastly more commonplace than it is right now. Ganking has one of the worst ROI for the most effort of any money-making scheme in the game. The coordination, planning, and straight-up luck required to make a good profit is completely off the charts compared to more common-place methods. Going by your standard, missions, mining, ratting, incursions, industry, and almost everything related to the the market needs to be nerfed into oblivion. Since they are all ridiculously much more common events, I can only assume that you also place them far higher on the list of priorities of things that need be nerfed, yes?

No. The odds of surviving a gank are roughly 100%-ε, as proven beyond any question by the number of ships flying through space at any given time and the utterly minute number of profitable ganks that come out of all those flights. The fundamental error in your thinking is that you incorrectly believe that the gank starts at the press of F1. It doesn't. It starts a couple of minutes before you click “undock”.

If what you said was true, it should not have been possible for me to not die once to a gank in more than 7 years, nor to have survived three actual attacks (in one case, without even having the time to turn on my tank).

Gankers are entirely at the mercy of their “victims.” If the victims choses not to be a victim, they won't be, and there's nothing the ganker can do to change that. He can't conjure up a different cargo in the holds; he can't magically remove fitted mods; he can't reach in and alter the routing in the other player's client; he can't remote-control the ship and its modules. All he can do is hope that the other player does something fundamentally stupid.

Ah, so you're going for the “if you're going to lie, lie big” route. What you say is inherently false because the game simply does not allow for what you just described. It cannot possibly be free, and there is absolutely no way for the ganker to pick their reward. If you believe either of those, you are so ignorant of everything related to the topic that you disqualify yourself from commenting on it.

How do you explain the indisputable fact that the vast majority of people manage to do exactly that, then?

Good news: it was removed in late 2011.

So, because gankers were too lazy to gank you, the problem of free riskless gank does not exist and is utter bollocks? I afraid you just ate some bollocks.


No, it means exactly that. It has the same chance of giving you everything as it does giving you nothing. In the long run, you will get the average, so complaining about it just characterizes you as a very poor fit for a math class.


So you just pick on words by claiming anything that costs 0.01 ISK in any way is not free.
At the same time, you perfectly realize what I were trying to say, but sill try to pick on the wording with obvious sense.
We can use other words. "given at no cost'. "dirt-cheap". "almost free". "available in extreme quantities at symbolic price".


Please, not this bollocks again, we all know industrial in lowsec is certain death (well maybe you don't, but killboards do).
We all know that ganking is done not for profit, but for "getting better" and "winning eve" by F1-monkeying industrials.
We all know that no amount of tank would save you from 30 catalysts piloted by trained dogs. Not even marauders survive it.
We all know that there is no way to make ends meet with JF's unless you are Black frog with 9-figure tolls for hauling in them.
So, as usual, you brought the usual ganktardy arguments without regard for how much times they were called stupid for being stupid.


I concede. I am incapable of blowing nearly as much ignorance as you spew into this post. Please shut up, apparently you are going to repeat the rest of stupid I heard and crushed 1000 times over.

You crushed nothing. Everything you spout is the same old rehashed myths and lies spouted by people who have no idea how ganking works.