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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Remove Killmails from new space or existing region for new meta game.

Author
Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#1 - 2015-05-09 06:28:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Onslaughtor
So this one is a idea I have had for a while and think would be a amazing change to some new kind of space or a modification to a existing region.

Basically the point is to have a environment where a different meta is created by the lack of killmails both ones for killing and ones from losing.

As a NPSI FC I see the killmail whoring and the I must have killmail stuff more than probably most. But its everywhere. This would create a new environment that would have its own meta style form with its inhabitants.

So super simple idea. Have at it.

*Edit*
I suppose I should clarify, By new meta I don't mean ship doctrines, I mean the way we play the game, and why.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2015-05-09 07:00:29 UTC
How do you figure that a lack of killmails would create a new meta?
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#3 - 2015-05-09 07:51:35 UTC
Well you dont have to "broadcast" your fits to everyone once the first of your shiney new fits explodes... Now they need to open 3 wrecks to see the modules you used to make it when they drop off the broken hulk that used to be my spaceboat...
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2015-05-09 07:56:33 UTC
tbh i have always hated the idea of KMs however i highly doubt that this is a change that will ever be implemented :/
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#5 - 2015-05-09 09:29:49 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
tbh i have always hated the idea of KMs however i highly doubt that this is a change that will ever be implemented :/


I also hate killmails, but they are a pretty much inextricable part of the game. They just give away so much intelligence for so little effort. For that matter, I hate local, the in-game map, and Dotlan too.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#6 - 2015-05-09 13:34:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Onslaughtor
Danika Princip wrote:
How do you figure that a lack of killmails would create a new meta?



For one leet pvpers who play for killmails (we all know these exist) would likely avoid the place. The need to kill your target for the mail goes away, giving more incentive to honoring things like 1v1s and ransoms, and the fear of getting mails for you pve or trial pvp loses goes away, making players more bold and likely to take risks. Industrialists might make up a greater portion of the in space players in such a environment, because they arnt punished by the greater community for a single lose, instead only by the people in their close proximity and via word of mouth.

Who knows. It might have no effect at all. But thats why its so fascinating and I would really love to see it tried out. I'm sure if you think about it there are a bunch of small or big things that not having to worry about killmails or use them for intel would change in the way you play.


I suppose I should clarify, By new meta I don't mean ship doctrines, I mean the way we play the game, and why.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#7 - 2015-05-09 17:19:26 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
How do you figure that a lack of killmails would create a new meta?

You cannot be serious. ALL of the PvP players I know are constantly looking at KB to find the ships a person prefers to fly and more importantly from the loses side the fits they have been flying. Removing this free source of valuable intel and you will alter the very basic nature of many if not most of the PvP engagements in the game especially the solo, small group or small fleet varieties. Better for the game or not I have no idea but like others here I would like to find out.

As a pilot why would I want to give you free and easy to get information on my abilities, my preferred ships and fits etc, doing so makes no sense from a combat perspective. When ranking the value of intel in combat operations Gen. Patton believed the only thing more important than discovering your enemies strengths and weaknesses was preventing your enemy from discovering yours. And yet the KM and KB make this valuable information readily available to anyone who bothers to look for it. Idiotic is the best word I can think of to describe the KM, KB concept that we have in EvE and it is one of the major reasons that I do not PvP in this game you have way to much intel on me before the fight ever begins. Yep you are right, I would be blinded by this as well and that is the way I prefer it, let us find out who is better, smarter or faster on the fields of battle, not by who can or will spend the most time researching opponents on the internet.

The only thing the KM, KB concept in this game gives us (other than handing out free intel) is the ability to pat oneself on the back, stand up a little straighter, stick out your chest and say "I am better than you because of this(pointing at computer screen and worthless numbers)"

No let us return to the ways of the old west were you were known by reputation and feared as a result of it, or your were a complete unknown, someone out to make a reputation or die trying.
Johny Tyler
LOGOS Community
Lux Collective
#8 - 2015-05-11 12:07:36 UTC
I would totally support any move away from KMs in PvP. Too many people confuse the score with the game imo.

If KM-less space were created I would move there.
Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
#9 - 2015-05-11 14:23:39 UTC
Onslaughtor wrote:
The need to kill your target for the mail goes away, giving more incentive to honoring things like 1v1s and ransoms, and the fear of getting mails for you pve or trial pvp loses goes away
Actually, I'd say 1v1s and ransoms would get even rarer, because without killmails there's even less way to verify if the people in question honor them.
Frank Padecain
FREELANCE Corps.
#10 - 2015-05-12 19:59:46 UTC
Ghaustyl Kathix wrote:
Onslaughtor wrote:
The need to kill your target for the mail goes away, giving more incentive to honoring things like 1v1s and ransoms, and the fear of getting mails for you pve or trial pvp loses goes away
Actually, I'd say 1v1s and ransoms would get even rarer, because without killmails there's even less way to verify if the people in question honor them.



Getting rid of killmails would at least make the ransomers and solo PvPers that do it for kills go away.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2015-05-12 20:23:58 UTC
Frank Padecain wrote:
Ghaustyl Kathix wrote:
Onslaughtor wrote:
The need to kill your target for the mail goes away, giving more incentive to honoring things like 1v1s and ransoms, and the fear of getting mails for you pve or trial pvp loses goes away
Actually, I'd say 1v1s and ransoms would get even rarer, because without killmails there's even less way to verify if the people in question honor them.



Getting rid of killmails would at least make the ransomers and solo PvPers that do it for kills go away.


And motivate even more people to do it for the "fun" of winning unfair battles. For every people who want too many kill mails there is one who won't do stuff because KM tell more of the story than what he's willing to tell.
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#12 - 2015-05-13 03:51:01 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
How do you figure that a lack of killmails would create a new meta?

You cannot be serious. ALL of the PvP players I know are constantly looking at KB to find the ships a person prefers to fly and more importantly from the loses side the fits they have been flying. Removing this free source of valuable intel and you will alter the very basic nature of many if not most of the PvP engagements in the game especially the solo, small group or small fleet varieties. Better for the game or not I have no idea but like others here I would like to find out.




but where's the new meta? People do this now. I did not e-stalk prey before engaging. Jumped right in. My only advance intel was camera and target and see its weapons fit. or other stuff obvious in that view.


E-stalking ships....again something you can do no e-stalking. I see old boy in the same ship 4 days if a betting man I'd wager day 5 will show no change. Secret to this method....have long term memory. HAs other benefits. Like when you see a bait recon arazu. many times I went it looks soooooo tempting. But iirc 2 hours ago there was an assload of cloakies about the area no one could find. Coincidence....probably not lol. Or write stuff down somewhere failing that.

Larger crews by and large aren't changing out "the fleet fit" weekly or even daily either to fake out the enemy. It be chaos otherwise. hell you get issues with people running the sanctioned fleet fit as is now...with it inplace for months. Fit either spyzored or just guessed at pretty good from shooting them for weeks on end.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#13 - 2015-05-13 04:04:34 UTC
Ransoms don't exist because there's no benefit to not killing the guy anyway, 1v1s exist but different people have different definitions of "one".