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Query about the GIla.
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Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#21 - 2015-05-13 00:32:59 UTC
Hmmp, and hear I was wondering when the Gila was gonna get targeted for being slightly OP. I figured once the Ishtar gets hammered then the Gila would be next.....was I right? The only real problem with the Gila is that a new pilot can train into one within 4 months doing 600ish dps with just the drones and with 2 of these can crush any Lev 4 mission with little difficulty (yes including blockade). Since they are so easy to train into combined with good dps + solid tank + great range for a cruiser hull (70km with 1 DLA) , I knew it was gonna be a matter of time before some gang decides to amass these ships in fleets and start terrorizing New Eden. But still, compared to the Othrus, is the Gila really that OP. I mean once you kill off the drones (which can be done easily with a web) the ship is as good as dead unlike the Othrus. Also unlike the Othrus it doesn't have the speed to kite, can't fit a MMJD and since it can only use 2 two Med drones simultaneously , targeting, catching and killing the drones isn't as time consuming as when having to kill 5 drones. But having a 100m3 drone bay does make it slightly OP so I propose to dropping one flight of the drone bay down to 80m3.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#22 - 2015-05-13 01:49:50 UTC
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
I've said before that drone cruisers (not really the Gila, but it's bonuses are too high IMO) have way too much bandwidth, but CCP loves em so we'll never see this fixed.


Tristan: 25mb
Algos: 35mb <-- Why this isn't 40mb, I don't know
VNI/Ishtar: 125mb <--- WTF!?
Myrmidon: 100mb
Dominix/Armageddon: 125mb <-- why only here do Amarr compare to Gallente in bandwidth, I don't know


See sig for PvP damage.

Light blue is drones.

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#23 - 2015-05-13 04:35:57 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
How about giving the Rattlesnake a bigger dronebay instead of complaining about pirate ships.

Not supported.


Are you aware of what you type before you hit post?

I feel most times you are not.

Supported OP.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#24 - 2015-05-13 04:37:26 UTC
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
I've said before that drone cruisers (not really the Gila, but it's bonuses are too high IMO) have way too much bandwidth, but CCP loves em so we'll never see this fixed.


Tristan: 25mb
Algos: 35mb <-- Why this isn't 40mb, I don't know
VNI/Ishtar: 125mb <--- WTF!?
Myrmidon: 100mb
Dominix/Armageddon: 125mb <-- why only here do Amarr compare to Gallente in bandwidth, I don't know



CCP logic brah
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#25 - 2015-05-13 04:44:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
motie one wrote:
No not supported.

Sorry you are having problems fighting this ship, but trying alternative tactics may help.

Different ships with different flavours is a great design, nerfing them all down to a flavourless gruel is not.

Or do you believe that missile ships should only be able to carry three reloads too?

After all do you think that ships spewing neverending streams of missiles are overpowered for PVP?

No?

Try fighting the ship and not the weapon, sorry if you have to think differently from fighting other drone boats.

Besides, with an appropriate weapon system, Gila drones are just more gristly meat to the grinder.


Agreed. The drones will almost always be primaried , not the ship itself and with only 3 flights of drones even more so. With 4-5 flights of drones it forces pilots to make a choice to either primary the drones or the ship hull itself. I don't hear too many complaints about the Othrus, that ship is way more dangerous than the Gila.
Juan Mileghere
The Corporate Raiders
Safety.
#26 - 2015-05-13 07:12:04 UTC
Reasonable +1

Blobbing Explained
motie one
Secret Passage
#27 - 2015-05-13 08:25:27 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Hmmp, and hear I was wondering when the Gila was gonna get targeted for being slightly OP. I figured once the Ishtar gets hammered then the Gila would be next.....was I right? The only real problem with the Gila is that a new pilot can train into one within 4 months doing 600ish dps with just the drones and with 2 of these can crush any Lev 4 mission with little difficulty (yes including blockade). Since they are so easy to train into combined with good dps + solid tank + great range for a cruiser hull (70km with 1 DLA) , I knew it was gonna be a matter of time before some gang decides to amass these ships in fleets and start terrorizing New Eden. But still, compared to the Othrus, is the Gila really that OP. I mean once you kill off the drones (which can be done easily with a web) the ship is as good as dead unlike the Othrus. Also unlike the Othrus it doesn't have the speed to kite, can't fit a MMJD and since it can only use 2 two Med drones simultaneously , targeting, catching and killing the drones isn't as time consuming as when having to kill 5 drones. But having a 100m3 drone bay does make it slightly OP so I propose to dropping one flight of the drone bay down to 80m3.



IF one wished to lower the power of the Gila, and that is a very strong IF, and wished it to carry no more than four flights of medium drones, one COULD reduce the drone bay to 85 to allow three flights of mediums plus 5 small unbonused utility drones (or 4 full flights).

However, the gila can be defanged quite nicely with the use of target painters and webs and appropriate weapons.

One is not committed to only using one ship to accomplish this at a time. In small gang, having a gila killer pair, is quite doable, and results in dead, surprised, Gilas.

It is a strong ship in a 1-1. Leaping on it in an unplanned and ill considered manner is MEANT to not end well.

Tl;Dr the Gila is a ship to be treated with respect as an enemy, requiring different tactics to overpower, This means just using unthinking brute force will often result in your destruction.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#28 - 2015-05-13 10:39:30 UTC
motie one wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Hmmp, and hear I was wondering when the Gila was gonna get targeted for being slightly OP. I figured once the Ishtar gets hammered then the Gila would be next.....was I right? The only real problem with the Gila is that a new pilot can train into one within 4 months doing 600ish dps with just the drones and with 2 of these can crush any Lev 4 mission with little difficulty (yes including blockade). Since they are so easy to train into combined with good dps + solid tank + great range for a cruiser hull (70km with 1 DLA) , I knew it was gonna be a matter of time before some gang decides to amass these ships in fleets and start terrorizing New Eden. But still, compared to the Othrus, is the Gila really that OP. I mean once you kill off the drones (which can be done easily with a web) the ship is as good as dead unlike the Othrus. Also unlike the Othrus it doesn't have the speed to kite, can't fit a MMJD and since it can only use 2 two Med drones simultaneously , targeting, catching and killing the drones isn't as time consuming as when having to kill 5 drones. But having a 100m3 drone bay does make it slightly OP so I propose to dropping one flight of the drone bay down to 80m3.



IF one wished to lower the power of the Gila, and that is a very strong IF, and wished it to carry no more than four flights of medium drones, one COULD reduce the drone bay to 85 to allow three flights of mediums plus 5 small unbonused utility drones (or 4 full flights).

However, the gila can be defanged quite nicely with the use of target painters and webs and appropriate weapons.

One is not committed to only using one ship to accomplish this at a time. In small gang, having a gila killer pair, is quite doable, and results in dead, surprised, Gilas.

It is a strong ship in a 1-1. Leaping on it in an unplanned and ill considered manner is MEANT to not end well.

Tl;Dr the Gila is a ship to be treated with respect as an enemy, requiring different tactics to overpower, This means just using unthinking brute force will often result in your destruction.


And therein lies the problem with todays eve pilots, they forgot all about the importants for fitting a proper tank. Todays eve is all about speed & power while sacrificing tank as it's known as the kitting meta. For tank pvp pilots have adopted the use of ewar (TD's, SD's, and ECM) in the mids with very little actual tank in the hopes to mitigate damage. Even armor tankers sacrifice tank to fit all the nanos and damage mods they can while filling the mids with props,tackle, ewar , and cap boosters. But drone boats are all but immune to cheap ewar tactics and kiters since drones act on a independent AI system that will harass aggressors regardless of the ewar placed on the main ship hull. This ability has made drone boats the most hated weapon system in eve. And with the Gila able to do 600+ dps with the drones alone makes it a very formidable opponent against the kiting platforms.

And so, since the majority of the eve populas loves the super fast kitey ships, that is why the forumers all band together and bashed the ishtars in the forums 24/7 until CCP could no longer ignore them and gave them their nerf and now it's the Gilas turn. Instead of adopting a new strategy it's easier to just whine in the forums in hopes that CCP would have mercy and nerf the ship to utter uselessness. A simple solution would be to not engage a Gila with a kitey ship and learn to fit a proper tank with good dps, the Gila has a solid tank not an overwhelming one.
Melody Axon
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#29 - 2015-05-13 10:53:50 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
the Gila has a solid tank not an overwhelming one.


I would actually beg to differ on that one (46k EHP on a Cynabal compared to 75.5k EHP on a comparatively fit Gila) , but the tank is not what I would like reduced, it's the drone bay size.

Mainly because it can spit out hordes upon hordes of drones, and it doesn't fit between its two other pirate counterparts (The Worm and the RS). The Ishtar, that hated and 'OP' thing, which has bonuses leading to heavy and sentry drone use, can only hold 3 full flights of heavies/sentries, the Dominix Navy can hold 3 full flights of heavies and a flight of lights, the 'Geddon and Domi get 3 full flights of heavies. But for some reason, the Gila gets 5 full flights of the drones it is bonused for and meant to be used.

To me that's weird, and part of the reason why the Gila is classified as OP. I don't think the tank is such a big issue, because a Gila is a slow whale compared to ships like the Cynabal and Orthrus, but when you're talking about the Gila potentially carrying over another 60k HP in drones (10 Hammerhead IIs, and that's raw HP, before resists are added in), that's a lot of extra damage to dish out if you are currently trying to kill their drones to reduce the incoming fire. You can't just set your drones on a Gila's drones to whittle them down while you take them out like you can do with any other ship, including normal drone ships like a VNI, they just take too long and can be continually replaced.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#30 - 2015-05-13 11:07:33 UTC
The changes to the ishtar aren't really a nerf. You just need to bring 20% more ishtars to get the job done. Since most ishtar gangs were already flying w/ enough firepower to alpha a well tanked BS and that 20% more requirement was already in place. They made the change to appease the complainers not to address the OP issues w/ the ishtar. It was bad math, put out by giggling ishtar pilots and changed nothing in the meta. The lack of change in current gameplay (post 'nerf') proves that.

The gila is different. It uses small drones. They can be smartbombed or killed by other means (not sentries dropped 50km away that you can't reasonably get to before you are dead). The point is, their damage is in harms way and can be reasonably countered. You may not like fighting them, but you can fight them.

Reducing the drone bay sized of a Gila will have an effect in a pretty small percentage of fights. How many fights were lost because the gila was able to drop its 5th set of drones on you? It's not something that comes up every day.

It's still ishtars online because they are OP. It's not Gilas online. I'll say the gila is fine and there needs to be a real change to ishtars (cough, how many times does 'get rid of sentries on cruisers' have to be said?) The addition of the drone damage / tracking / range modules are what change everything and made the cruiser sentry platform too much. You didn't see ishtar/VNI swarms before that.

-1 to Gila bay capacity change as it doesn't effect gameplay most of the time.
-1 to the ishtar nerf because it didn't change anything (gangs were already +20% damage needed, so???)

TL/DR I don't like fighting Gilas either, but at least you can actually fight back against them.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#31 - 2015-05-13 11:21:29 UTC
Supported.

A few weeks ago I saw a PVE Gila in a WH site get attacked by 2 confessors and anathema, they all died before being able to warp off after trying to tackle it.

RLM Gilas are SERIOUSLY SCARY

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#32 - 2015-05-13 11:59:00 UTC
Arya Regnar wrote:
Supported.

A few weeks ago I saw a PVE Gila in a WH site get attacked by 2 confessors and anathema, they all died before being able to warp off after trying to tackle it.

RLM Gilas are SERIOUSLY SCARY


LOL, They were probably failed fitted. But seriously the Gilas aren't cheap (290 mill isk), if they did nerf the drone bay like you want then their prices are gonna plummet and the ship would see very few uses due to lower survivability. As for tank for the Gila, the drones are it's tank because THEY WILL get primaried and even more so if they're only allowed 3 flights. Anyways if a ship can't tank 620 dps then they have no reason to take on a Gila.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-05-13 12:33:26 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
No support from me.
Using Gila for high-sec lvl4s i would not like to change drones for every mission i meet or having not spare drones just in case...
I lose small drones once in a while but i do it. So i always have like 6-7 of hoblins and warriors.
And recently i messed up and almost lost one of my hammerheads in the middle of a mission. Needed to warp out and repair it in station. Else Gila would have no DPS output at all.

For PvP i can agree that Gila's drone bay looks OP. But for PVE it is not.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#34 - 2015-05-13 12:43:12 UTC
people are speaking as if gila doesn't have missile damage aswell as drones which leads too over 900 dps fits easy.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#35 - 2015-05-13 13:17:55 UTC
Phaade wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
How about giving the Rattlesnake a bigger dronebay instead of complaining about pirate ships.

Not supported.


Are you aware of what you type before you hit post?

I feel most times you are not.

Supported OP.


I am very aware of what I write and how I write it, you may have noticed that. It is no secret that ZEE ZOOPER tactic for zee drone ships is to shoot zee drones and who came up with that first should biomass and apologize.

So let's make a deal and the day I can shoot your guns of your ship I stop complaining about people shooting drones.

Moving on, the only thing I read in this thread is 'pirate boat stronger than mine, BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH..'

Yes, pirate factions ships are stronger than yours and guess what, they are supposed to. Every single one of them.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#36 - 2015-05-13 19:04:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
Serendipity Lost wrote:

The gila is different. It uses small drones. They can be smartbombed or killed by other means (not sentries dropped 50km away that you can't reasonably get to before you are dead).


For one, the ship is bonused in Medium drones.

Secondly, those Medium drones on this ship have... TEN TIMES THE NUMBER OF HITPOINTS, than on competing drone boats. Big smile

Harvey James wrote:
people are speaking as if gila doesn't have missile damage aswell as drones which leads too over 900 dps fits easy.


Drone+RLML cancer best cancer.

Drone Cruisers Online

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Iain Cariaba
#37 - 2015-05-13 19:44:57 UTC
So, are we officially moving from whining about Tengus-Online and Ishtars-Online to now whining about Gilas-Online?

If people spent half as much time thinking about different ways to fight whatever the OP-Ship-of-the-Month as they spent whining about it...
Segraina Skyblazer
Doomheim
#38 - 2015-05-13 21:27:04 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
people are speaking as if gila doesn't have missile damage aswell as drones which leads too over 900 dps fits easy.


The Gila really doesn't have the grid or cpu to properly fit missile launchers with tank so that dps can't be applied in most cases and even if they do the missiles have short ranges due to not having missile velocity bonus.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#39 - 2015-05-13 21:35:10 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
So, are we officially moving from whining about Tengus-Online and Ishtars-Online to now whining about Gilas-Online?

If people spent half as much time thinking about different ways to fight whatever the OP-Ship-of-the-Month as they spent whining about it...


The forums have made it "Whiners Online". There's always gonna be a ship that people are gonna whine and whine about in the forums because they have gotten to lazy to strategize. There's only one ship that the complaints were justified and that's the Ishtar with having that massive drone bay with sentries. There's another ship called the Othrus that really is OP, but you don't hear too many complaints about it........why? Answer, because it's not a drone boat.
Melody Axon
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#40 - 2015-05-13 21:51:40 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
So, are we officially moving from whining about Tengus-Online and Ishtars-Online to now whining about Gilas-Online?

If people spent half as much time thinking about different ways to fight whatever the OP-Ship-of-the-Month as they spent whining about it...


The forums have made it "Whiners Online". There's always gonna be a ship that people are gonna whine and whine about in the forums because they have gotten to lazy to strategize. There's only one ship that the complaints were justified and that's the Ishtar with having that massive drone bay with sentries. There's another ship called the Othrus that really is OP, but you don't hear too many complaints about it........why? Answer, because it's not a drone boat.


1) I'm not whining about the Gila, I'm confused why it has such a large drone bay and wondering what people would think about a slight reduction to its drone bay. And if people think that the reduction of the drone bay wouldn't affect the Gila at all, then what would be the problem of the drone bay reduction?

2) Sure, the Orthrus is also OP, and arguably even more OP than the Gila, but I haven't thought up of a way that seems reasonable to reduce it's power. If you have any ideas, feel free to post them on the forum.