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[News] DED won't give back our heroes

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KaRa DaVuT
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-05-12 20:45:50 UTC
Why would Eifyr be charged with anything? Their employee leaked private corporate info.

Now charging The Scope with broadcasting it would be a giant censorship violation.

TELL US WHERE THEY ARE SO WE CAN GO BREAK THEM OUT.

#FreeAmbre

#FreeOcteyncaere

Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is in your heart and on your mind... And what you decide to do every day, makes you - not your race - a good man - or not.

Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2015-05-12 20:48:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinjin Mokk
I made the same assertions about DED in a recent thread.

A representative from DED basically told me that they didn't care and that they do not to answer to us.

I also offered on behalf of my associates to pay for whatever parole is needed. Since we all know that we can increase our security standings with CONCORD and the DED by buying and reselling certain items to the DED, there should be no reason why these people should be held. DED still refused.

If the DED is going to maneuver outside of accepted legal practice and detain citizens at will without charge or the benefit of trial, then the the people running the DED need to be replaced and DED and CONCORD need to be brought back down to the advisory board that they were originally.

As I've stated. God did not give Amarr an Empire in order for it to be sold to the interests of CONCORD. I'm sure those of you loyal to the Federation, State, Republic and outside corporate interests would feel much the same.


#FreeAmbre

#FreeOcteyncaere

#Angelsareneverfar

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."

Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#23 - 2015-05-12 20:50:29 UTC
Pick one, Amarrian loyalist or Angel. Wearing both colors clashes and makes you look rather clownish.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#24 - 2015-05-12 21:12:48 UTC
Arve Vesren wrote:
The DED was only made aware of the existence of this footage when it was unlawfully sold to The Scope on May 8th, and our offices were contacted by Eifyr & Co regarding theft of digital property. Since becoming aware of the footage, the DED has begun to analyze the recording, its carrier signal and its transmission origin to attempt to date and locate the nature of the events. At this time we have no further information to disseminate on the subject.


Source.

Even if Eifyr & Co. did finally notify the DED, it remains that this was essentially under duress, knowing that their failure to provide the information earlier would come to light. The length of time they had failed to notify proper authorities is an important question, as is whatever they may or may not have done in the meantime. It may simply be that they're guilty of nonfeasance, instead of malfeasance, or had not possessed the data long enough to warrant any charge whatsoever.

That said, we remain in a situation where a Republic corporation levels charges relating to one of its employee's sale of data to a Federation corporation. Had the employee simply disclosed this information without remuneration, then one could argue that whistleblower laws should cover the employee. However, he sold Eifyr & Co. data to the Scope, which muddles the intentions of the employee and lays him open to accusations of theft, and the Scope to accusations of espionage, as they are purchasing proprietary information belonging to the corporation of another nation.

My recollection, not having read the law since my academy days, is that ICE.YC36 formalizes corporate ownership of employee's activities in various jurisdictions; otherwise, the intellectual property of, say, a Caldari megacorporation would be subject to Federation, Republic, Empire, Kingdom, and State law. In a society of FTL transmission of data between disparate states, you can see how this would prove a significant impediment to interstellar business.

Further, while I doubt very much that there's proper intellectual property enforcement outside of secure space, I suspect CONCORD has ruled that material produced on behalf of a corporation by its employees in unsecure space remains subject to intellectual property laws. Considering that Tukoss's work for Eifyr involved wormhole space research, I would contend that his broadcast is related to his work, and thus constitutes proprietary information belonging to Eifyr & Co.

Ultimately, I tend to think that the employee was in the wrong for selling the data. But this matter pales next to the matter of Eifyr's failure to disclose it in a timely fashion.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Minara Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-05-12 21:22:49 UTC
Questioning and detaining the Eifyr & Co makes sense under ICE.YC36. Questioning and detaining the Producer and the Journalist of the scope makes none.

It is a clear case of censorship as the Scope was operating under freedom of speech. Eifyr & Co clearly is responsible for Treason to not only keeping this transmission for themselves, but likely giving it to the Sisters of EVE, which is NOT a Republic corporation.

The 2 members of the Scope MUST be freed at once, and i urge the Inner Circle of DED to rise immediatly the level of threat the Drifters pose. I hope they keep their words by spreading everything they'll learn from the footage.
Deceiver's Echo
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#26 - 2015-05-12 21:26:48 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Further, while I doubt very much that there's proper intellectual property enforcement outside of secure space, I suspect CONCORD has ruled that material produced on behalf of a corporation by its employees in unsecure space remains subject to intellectual property laws. Considering that Tukoss's work for Eifyr involved wormhole space research, I would contend that his broadcast is related to his work, and thus constitutes proprietary information belonging to Eifyr & Co.

Understood. A good defense lawyer would however point out the pending litigation with Zainou, therefore putting Eifyr's right to intellectual property into dispute. In fact, if Eifyr kept DED in the dark then this right here is most likely the reason. One could also say that Tukoss himself did not profit from the sale of property from Zainou, and that he in fact released the information and did not pursue further study in relation to his previous employment.

With Tukoss disavowed by Eifyr, his employment and whether or not this transmission is intellectual property of Eifyr also comes into question.

At the very least, delaying hearings and keeping a client free would be the ultimate goal. A skilled lawyer could keep DED, Zainou and Eifyr in court for years while counter-suing at the same time. At the very least they should be able to get their client released once charges are filed.

Personally if I were so inclined this would be a dream to litigate.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#27 - 2015-05-12 21:46:17 UTC
Agreed that this is a legal quagmire. Also relevant is this:

Arve Vesren wrote:
Given that Hilen Tukoss is registered with the SCC as an employee of Eifyr & Co, and was struck off from the corporate citizenship roster of both Ishukone and Zainou Biotech with the House of Records, this makes his projects business property of Eifyr & Co, whom have filed complaint with the SCC and DED under the ICE Act YC36 from the jurisdiction of Meinigefur district court.


As Tukoss has been struck from the record, he is formally Disassociated from the State. Any data he generated after being struck would reasonably be Eifyr & Co.'s property, provided it isn't based on misappropriated intellectual property. We could certainly theorize that if Zainou and Ishukone wished to press the matter, they could muddy the water by pressing that any data derived from improperly acquired proprietary information should not be considered Eifyr & Co.'s property, but this would require disclosure of Tukoss's research before he defected, and how rigorous the non-disclosure terms of his contract are. Honestly, were I advising Zainou Biotech, I'd advise them to desist, so that Eifyr & Co. can twist in the wind. CONCORD has apparently already come to a decision on Tukoss, and are unlikely to reverse that decision to lighten the blow to Eifyr & Co.

The question I'd have is this: provided that there's at least some substance to the charge of industrial espionage, would any incriminating evidence from this investigation lend itself to charges of malfeasance against Eifyr & Co.? With the charge of theft of data, is Eifyr & Co. attempting to redirect the investigation? Or will it backfire and give CONCORD the grounds for an investigation into Eifyr & Co.?

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Deceiver's Echo
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#28 - 2015-05-12 23:17:53 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
The question I'd have is this: provided that there's at least some substance to the charge of industrial espionage, would any incriminating evidence from this investigation lend itself to charges of malfeasance against Eifyr & Co.?

Possibly. It depends on the DED investigation.

Quote:
With the charge of theft of data, is Eifyr & Co. attempting to redirect the investigation? Or will it backfire and give CONCORD the grounds for an investigation into Eifyr & Co.?

Theft of data charges are common in whistle blower incidents. If the leak had been to government authorities (such as DED), then the data theft charge would pretty much be voided as the leak would be considered in the public interest. Warranted or not, the charges are meant to cover the company from any liability associated with the leak. It's also the beginning of the paper trail to get such leaks struck from the record in other court proceedings, might or might not work. This tactic is commonly used as leverage to force signing of NDA's to drop the theft charge. This could assist in any defense against malfeasance as the whistle blower would be bound by the NDA going forward. I wouldn't be surprised if such an agreement is reached in this case in the coming weeks.
Kerena Alabel
Temple Of Inanna
#29 - 2015-05-12 23:53:04 UTC
I suggest we as capsuleers force DED's hand and make them release them. We would lose many ships in the process but i think it would be worth it.
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#30 - 2015-05-13 00:07:44 UTC
Kerena Alabel wrote:
I suggest we as capsuleers force DED's hand and make them release them. We would lose many ships in the process but i think it would be worth it.

Last lime capsuleers tried to riot in Yulai... Hm, if I remember correct, they were trying to attract CONCORD's attention to some problems. Well, most of the rioters shot each other, I mean, their ships. Others stole the remains and equipment from wrecks and ran from the system.

I was there. It was hilarious.
Kerena Alabel
Temple Of Inanna
#31 - 2015-05-13 00:14:04 UTC
Jaret Victorian wrote:
Kerena Alabel wrote:
I suggest we as capsuleers force DED's hand and make them release them. We would lose many ships in the process but i think it would be worth it.

Last lime capsuleers tried to riot in Yulai... Hm, if I remember correct, they were trying to attract CONCORD's attention to some problems. Well, most of the rioters shot each other, I mean, their ships. Others stole the remains and equipment from wrecks and ran from the system.

I was there. It was hilarious.


We are so screwed...
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#32 - 2015-05-13 00:19:37 UTC
Yeah, the most funny part was that CONCORD didn't even pay any attention to them. Except for dispatching the usual squads to deal with those who shoot others in High-sec.

I suggest simply throwing money at them or seeking a loophole in the laws.
Anyanka Funk
Doomheim
#33 - 2015-05-13 01:23:42 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Pick one, Amarrian loyalist or Angel. Wearing both colors clashes and makes you look rather clownish.


Hahahahaha!

Ehem...

Bwahahahahaha!
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#34 - 2015-05-13 01:48:03 UTC
Anyanka Funk wrote:
Bwahahahahaha!

Nauplius, you could get in a lot of trouble posting with someone else's NeoCom information.
Anyanka Funk
Doomheim
#35 - 2015-05-13 01:58:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Anyanka Funk
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Anyanka Funk wrote:
Bwahahahahaha!

Nauplius, you could get in a lot of trouble posting with someone else's NeoCom information.


It's just funny seeing a Nation loyalist that works for a Caldari loyalist mercenary corporation that fights for the Amarr empire telling anyone to pick a side. Maybe next week you'll be a DED lawyer too, Evi?
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#36 - 2015-05-13 02:24:39 UTC
Anyanka Funk wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Anyanka Funk wrote:
Bwahahahahaha!

Nauplius, you could get in a lot of trouble posting with someone else's NeoCom information.


It's just funny seeing a Nation loyalist that works for a Caldari loyalist mercenary corporation that fights for the Amarr empire telling anyone to pick a side. Maybe next week you'll be a DED lawyer too, Evi?

Mokk is rushing to defend the Empire and Cartel from one breath to another.

I couldn't give two ***** about the Empire or the State. My loyalties lie with Nation and with my bretheren. But if you really think that me killing Minmatar Militia means by default I am somehow supporting the Empire, then would it be supporting the Republic when I helped take down Nauplius's structures? There's a difference between defending an ideal and simply attacking people with an opposing ideal. I thought you'd have learned that, little miss Blooder who was fighting for the TLF.

Tomorrow Pyre could take a contract from the TLF. Or Mordu's for all I care. I do what I can for Nation, but until I am called to act further than I already do I will do the best I can to keep myself in peak condition. This means flying with some of the best I've ever had the pleasure to meet.
Anyanka Funk
Doomheim
#37 - 2015-05-13 03:08:34 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Anyanka Funk wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Anyanka Funk wrote:
Bwahahahahaha!

Nauplius, you could get in a lot of trouble posting with someone else's NeoCom information.


It's just funny seeing a Nation loyalist that works for a Caldari loyalist mercenary corporation that fights for the Amarr empire telling anyone to pick a side. Maybe next week you'll be a DED lawyer too, Evi?

Mokk is rushing to defend the Empire and Cartel from one breath to another.

I couldn't give two ***** about the Empire or the State. My loyalties lie with Nation and with my bretheren. But if you really think that me killing Minmatar Militia means by default I am somehow supporting the Empire, then would it be supporting the Republic when I helped take down Nauplius's structures? There's a difference between defending an ideal and simply attacking people with an opposing ideal. I thought you'd have learned that, little miss Blooder who was fighting for the TLF.

Tomorrow Pyre could take a contract from the TLF. Or Mordu's for all I care. I do what I can for Nation, but until I am called to act further than I already do I will do the best I can to keep myself in peak condition. This means flying with some of the best I've ever had the pleasure to meet.


Evi, let me make this clear enough for even you to understand. I hate Sinjinn Mokk, I hate all the empires, and I especially hate CONCORD and DED.

I was like you, a working girl in an endless war for the fun of it. I realized something. There is no point to having a side. Take all the sides, do what thou wilt. But don't be a hypocrite when someone does the same, it's just as silly. That is why I think it's hilarious that you would tell anyone to pick a side.

Sinjinn, listen to Evi, don't fly with your Angel friends because you have Amarr in your heart and doing both is bad. But it's ok to fly with Amarrian and Caldari friends with true slave implants in your head because **** logic.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#38 - 2015-05-13 06:52:09 UTC
Anyanka Funk wrote:
Evi, let me make this clear enough for even you to understand. I hate Sinjinn Mokk, I hate all the empires, and I especially hate CONCORD and DED.

I was like you, a working girl in an endless war for the fun of it. I realized something. There is no point to having a side. Take all the sides, do what thou wilt. But don't be a hypocrite when someone does the same, it's just as silly. That is why I think it's hilarious that you would tell anyone to pick a side.

Sinjinn, listen to Evi, don't fly with your Angel friends because you have Amarr in your heart and doing both is bad. But it's ok to fly with Amarrian and Caldari friends with true slave implants in your head because **** logic.


There's a difference between adherance to an ideology and the recognition of where there exists ground for mutual advantage. The pursuit of pragmatism and personal realpolitik does not mean the abandonment of a cause, but rather an mature and intelligent acceptance of what is determined in one's own best interests to achieve their own agendas.

Ideologies require power in order to fulfill, but power itself cares not for ideology.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Anyanka Funk
Doomheim
#39 - 2015-05-13 14:01:22 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Anyanka Funk wrote:
Evi, let me make this clear enough for even you to understand. I hate Sinjinn Mokk, I hate all the empires, and I especially hate CONCORD and DED.

I was like you, a working girl in an endless war for the fun of it. I realized something. There is no point to having a side. Take all the sides, do what thou wilt. But don't be a hypocrite when someone does the same, it's just as silly. That is why I think it's hilarious that you would tell anyone to pick a side.

Sinjinn, listen to Evi, don't fly with your Angel friends because you have Amarr in your heart and doing both is bad. But it's ok to fly with Amarrian and Caldari friends with true slave implants in your head because **** logic.


There's a difference between adherance to an ideology and the recognition of where there exists ground for mutual advantage. The pursuit of pragmatism and personal realpolitik does not mean the abandonment of a cause, but rather an mature and intelligent acceptance of what is determined in one's own best interests to achieve their own agendas.

Ideologies require power in order to fulfill, but power itself cares not for ideology.


Thank you! I couldn't have said it better (literally). This is true for everyone, not just members of Pyre, even Khanid Angels. So when someone says pick a side who is doing this, it's just funny.

Veikitamo, you could have quoted Evi saying pick a side instead of quoting me and this would have the exact same meaning. I would still be laughing though.

Evi, you could learn a thing from Veikitamo.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#40 - 2015-05-13 14:25:21 UTC
Anyanka Funk wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Anyanka Funk wrote:
Bwahahahahaha!

Nauplius, you could get in a lot of trouble posting with someone else's NeoCom information.


It's just funny seeing a Nation loyalist that works for a Caldari loyalist mercenary corporation that fights for the Amarr empire telling anyone to pick a side. Maybe next week you'll be a DED lawyer too, Evi?

Pyre Falcon has only repudiated one contract since our formation, the one held by Tibus Heth, and I feel no need to apologise for that. Our commitment to achieving successful outcomes for our business partners is written in our achievements and is a matter of public record.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

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