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Mac OS X Cider Engine Update Feedback

First post
Author
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#21 - 2015-04-20 11:58:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
CCP Sledgehammer wrote:
Can I ask if you updated the master client before running clones or using terminal commands?

I'm just running a single, stand-alone client (this was a clean install after Scylla was released). I detailed the launch/update attempts using standard terminal commands. Ultimately, I was able to get my SiSi client patched to the latest version - but the launcher fails to initialize the EVE client.

SiSi Addendum: I re-launched the SiSi client this morning from the command line, ensuring that it was the only application running (SiSi has in the past conflicted with the regular Tranquility client, usually crashing one or failing to launch). There was a small patch and download waiting which went off without a hitch and subsequently launched the SiSi EVE Client on the first attempt. I repeated this twice to confirm that the previous launcher anomalies (Offline mode, blank white launcher window, etc.) seem to have been eliminated.

Graphics Addendum: There is a slighte improvement in raw FPS now that you can enable multithreaded OpenGL. I wasn't able to test this to the fullest potential as anti-aliasing is disabled and I'm limited to a medium shader setting with my particular graphics card. I can report that it consistently maintained a 60+ FPS rate with all available graphic settings set to maximum running at a windowed resolution of 2048x1152 (without OpenGL enabled this would frequently drop down by 1-2 FPS). The chosen environment was a dense asteroid field for maximum strain. I tested this all the way up to the maximum resolution of 5120x2880 (which makes reading or selecting anything on a Retina display quite challenging), and the frame rate dropped down to just below 40 FPS.

SKINs Addendum: Changing SKINs in space seems to be working a bit more smoothly (the brief lag and blink is gone), and this has zero impact on frame rate.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#22 - 2015-04-21 04:00:01 UTC
CCP Sledgehammer wrote:
Hey Dersen,

Remove the quotation marks around /server:singularity and it should work fine. Just tested with your command line and it opens TQ for me, but removing the quotation marks gets Sisi's launcher up correctly.


That worked perfectly, thanks.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Niko Zino
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-04-21 18:05:14 UTC
So, after the mass test, the good and the not so good:

The good:
- Performance has been significantly improved. I never went below 20fps, where I used to go to 5-6fps
- Stability (when not using the multithreaded opengl, gotta check if it's actually the issue) is way better as well, provided there aren't to many things on grid
- it *seems* the UI is much more responsive, as well

The not-so good (probably all related to the last item)
- transition between spaces is HARD on the fps (60fps in warp -> 1 fps right after exiting warp/jump) then it goes up again
- cider tries to access protected memory (bad) and fails to allocate at a certain point:

kernel[0]: GPU Access disallowed due to VM protection attribute.
--- last message repeated 9 times ---
cider[1644]: Critical failure: the LastResort font is unavailable. x 15
cider[1644]: cider(1644,0xdcd31000) malloc: *** mach_vm_map(size=1048576) failed (error code=3)
*** error: can't allocate region
*** set a breakpoint in malloc_error_break to debug
x20, then crash

CAS, the NPC Corp that Does Stuff™

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#24 - 2015-04-21 18:10:31 UTC
The mass test was fun! Quite a few graphical anomalies that appeared during the huge fleet battle:

• When opening the fitting window ships started appearing semi-translucent. By switching ships and randomly undocking and then docking again, I was able to alternate between solid and semi-translucent states. This was present before the mass test with only a few dozen people logged-in and continued until the end of my session.
• Opening the fitting window to swap skins in a large fleet caused a noticeable delay/lag and killed the frame rate to essentially 0 fps while it was opening.
• The Phoenix Wiyrkomi skins started out fine, but later defaulted to primarily white with some green aspects.
• Modules that were active prior to going through a gate incurred a spherical flashing reticle that disappeared once you activated the module, but then returned when you deactivated it.
• Some of the stargates took on a 'rainbow' spherical color shape from a distance and appeared as a coloured beach ball up close.

On the plus side, the Mac client held up. There were quite a few noticeable lags/delays where the screen froze and I thought for sure that was it, but it managed to survive. Audio was active (music set to 0) and the graphics settings were set to maximum where possible (OpenGL enabled and set to interval immediate). FPS was 60 initially, dropped to 45 or so when most of the players and ships started undocking, zoomed up to 80 during fleet warps but generally stayed in the 35-40 range. When we attacked the POS it bottomed out around 1.5 when zoomed in (10 or 11 when zoomed out).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Niko Zino
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-04-21 18:17:55 UTC
@Arthur Alhaken : lucky man, I crashed twice! What's your setup?

CAS, the NPC Corp that Does Stuff™

Aleida Aldeland
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-04-21 22:15:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Aleida Aldeland
Mac Pro Early 2009 2x2.16 with 16gb ram and ATI Radeon 5870.

First undock after login gives a black screen for 7 or 8 seconds.
By the time you can see, the session change is just about up.
Cutting it very fine for using an instant undock bookmark.

Makes logging out in lowsec rather more of a risk than it should be...
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#27 - 2015-04-22 01:02:47 UTC
Niko Zino wrote:
@Arthur Alhaken : lucky man, I crashed twice! What's your setup?


Do you have any idea how much memory the client used before crashing?

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#28 - 2015-04-22 01:59:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Niko Zino wrote:
@Arthur Alhaken : lucky man, I crashed twice! What's your setup?

iMac Retina 5k (late 2014) 27"
4GHz Intel Core i7, 16GB DRAM
AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4GB, 256GB Flash Drive
OS X Yosemite 10.10.3

I was running with everything set to high with the exception of the shader (limited to Medium) and anti-aliasing which was disabled. I ran with and without OpenGL enabled (I'm not necessarily convinced that on my system OpenGL gives any benefit). Audio was on with music off, and I ran it windowed @ 2048x1152 resolution. I had Safari and Terminal open in the background, but that was it. Any flash or SSD will make a huge difference, IMHO.

Honestly, when I took a several severe lag hits at various points during the fleet battle I was fully expecting it to bail on me. Call me pleasantly surprised!

Interesting Sidenote: I missed the 'jump through gate' command from CCP Sledgehammer and was trying to figure out where the Moros being primaried was. I ended up with a few stray ships from the opposing fleet who had gone through the gate and I think we were all equally confused as to what was going, on so we ended up in a brief skirmish before figuring out where we were supposed to be.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Niko Zino
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-04-22 08:39:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Niko Zino
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Niko Zino wrote:
@Arthur Alhaken : lucky man, I crashed twice! What's your setup?


Do you have any idea how much memory the client used before crashing?


Not really, but since it's a 32 bits executable (correct me if I'm wrong), cider only has a few gigs to play with. If it can't offload the textures to the graphics card (which it apparently was trying to do), then everything stays within that memory space...

I don't know enough about the iMac retina, but on my rMBP (I did the masstest on a mac pro with gtx card), the integrated video chipset shares the memory space with the RAM, making that offloading possible.

EDIT: a few hours later

Flying in space has RAM usage at around 1.5G
Running a site/mission makes it grow to 2/2.5 depending on the variety of Stuff On Grid

I imagine the masstest went way higher.

-nz

CAS, the NPC Corp that Does Stuff™

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#30 - 2015-04-24 04:13:05 UTC
So, there's one bug that I'm still trying to replicate. It's cosmetic: for some sizes of the probe scanner window, the scan result bars on anomalies (i.e., the ones you don't have to use probes on) aren't all the same length. The right margin gets ragged. I can't reproduce it consistently. Resizing the window fixes it, usually.

Other than that, I am seriously loving the new Mac client. Running full screen, full resolution, with everything cranked up to high and the tactical overlay on, getting 30-50 FPS, with only dips down into the mid-20s after gate jumps (the client used to drop to single digits after gate jumps). Stability has so far not been an issue, although to be fair I haven't stressed it as hard as I could. That's a nice upgrade.

CQ framerate is single digits with medium texture quality. *shrug*

I hope now that Transgaming has announced DX11 support, we aren't going to have to wait too long for the EVE client to adopt that. Obviously, it's not a game-breaking flaw, it's just the last major thing I can think of that the Mac client is missing. Excellent work.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Aleida Aldeland
Doomheim
#31 - 2015-05-12 14:02:38 UTC

I am not sure if this is caused by the cider engine or something else.
Perhaps a couple of others could take a look?

At a certain kind of station I get a graphical glitch in the ship bay.

One such station is Ghesis II - Inherent Implants Biotech Production.

Here is a screenshot...

Glitch

Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to check it.
Niko Zino
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2015-05-12 17:45:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Niko Zino
Phew, todays' masstest was rough... It still looks like the cider client is trying to access private VM segments when using a discreet GPU (aka a *good* graphics card), leading to 3 crashes in 10 minutes... -_-'

For me, every time I crossed the 2.1GB RAM usage limit, I crashed.

The new textures/shaders are GORGEOUS, however

CAS, the NPC Corp that Does Stuff™

Aleida Aldeland
Doomheim
#33 - 2015-05-12 18:35:07 UTC
I found these errors in my system.log:

May 12 19:31:09 quad.xx cider[9799]: The function ‘CGFontSetShouldUseMulticache’ is obsolete and will be removed in an upcoming update. Unfortunately, this application, or a library it uses, is using this obsolete function, and is thereby contributing to an overall degradation of system performance.

May 12 19:31:13 quad kernel[0]: GPU Access disallowed due to VM protection attribute.
May 12 19:31:51 quad kernel[0]: GPU Access disallowed due to VM protection attribute.

The first of these is particularly worrying.

The others appear to confirm that cider is attempting to access memory it shouldn't.
I didn't get any crashes though.
This is an iMac with 16gb ram and a Radeon HD 6970M with 1024mb.
Niko Zino
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2015-05-12 18:43:54 UTC
the first one isn't actually a big deal, as decompiling cider shows they have a fallback method anyways.

the GPU access disallowed is pretty bad imho, as it seems to indicate cider tries to store the texture in the VRAM (which is fine) in a totally unorthodox manner. Since I have yet to see textureless objects, I assume the fallback is using standard RAM for them, which is considerably slower (hence the low fps), and heavily capped (cider being 32 bits).

CAS, the NPC Corp that Does Stuff™

Aleida Aldeland
Doomheim
#35 - 2015-05-12 19:34:57 UTC
Niko Zino wrote:
the first one isn't actually a big deal, as decompiling cider shows they have a fallback method anyways.


They are not using the fallback method now.
Why not?
Is it slower?
Niko Zino
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2015-05-12 19:43:36 UTC
It's just a warning that the multicache will go away at some point (because computers have better ways to handle that nowadays). It's even probable that the current implementation does nothing except output that message.

CAS, the NPC Corp that Does Stuff™

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