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[Carnyx] The Jackdaw

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Pine Marten
Doomheim
#101 - 2015-05-11 15:42:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Pine Marten
The base speed doesn't make any sense.

Jackdaw: 160 ms
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2015-05-11 15:53:02 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Lev Ironwill wrote:
afkalt wrote:
If you're doing a missile look-at in June too, you need to tell us now. Feedback is worthless without knowing this.

I say this because it was mooted previously.

This is what I would like to know as well, lasers and projectiles were both addressed with their respective T3D's so will missiles be getting a look with the Jackdaw?
I would like to be exited for this new ship, I should be, but I'm hesitant to get my hopes up about a missile ship being more than niche.


No, because that might possibly mean that Caldari would get buffed. Pretty sure that it's in the rules somewhere that they aren't allowed to buff Caldari.


Recent excavations in Iceland revealed the existence of a small clay tablet, thought to date back to the first settlers on the island. Once it was translated, it was found to contain the following, cryptic, message.

Thou shalt not buff Caldari. Ever.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Lura Zara
Worlds Without Boundaries Special Forces
#103 - 2015-05-11 16:01:14 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ima gonna rat with it.


I actually was going to do the same, Its a gorgeous looking PVE ship, Despite everything in this thread being about PVP so far. I'm betting i could make mine as is run a Haven/Sanctum.

Maybe not the best isk/hour but it would be fun!
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2015-05-11 16:05:40 UTC
I'm liking it.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Solj RichPopolous
Silent Havok.
H A R D L I N E R S
#105 - 2015-05-11 16:08:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Solj RichPopolous
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ima gonna rat with it.


Seems thats what it was made for honestly cause this:

95% reduction in Scan Probe Launcher CPU requirements

Too slow and limited for PVP use.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#106 - 2015-05-11 16:45:19 UTC
I'm seeing this as an even more tanky fleet-capable sniper. Shall be interesting to see if this will beat my fessor's 800:3 efficiency ratio
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#107 - 2015-05-11 18:08:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Fourteen Maken
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
I'm seeing this as an even more tanky fleet-capable sniper.


220dps with faction light missiles and a bcu is so much lower than the other two, and even lower than most t1 destroyers
no speed to keep range so you won't be sniping for long
delayed dps means much of your already low dps will be wasted
big sig radius and low speed will make it easy for cruisers to hit


I know people will try to make this work because of the tank, but it will only work as a sniper doctrine if you can get a blob of t1 frigates to engage it.

For solo the only option is scram kiting but it sounds like it's too slow to control range against other brawlers even with dual webs, it's a sitting duck against kiters, and the other t3's will certainly wipe the floor with it especially with an oversize ab fitted.

I was hoping for a big hookbill, but looks more like a baby drake.

EDIT: Actually it might be good for gangs gate camping. with fast lock fit and tank for gate guns
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#108 - 2015-05-11 19:08:44 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
I'm seeing this as an even more tanky fleet-capable sniper.


220dps with faction light missiles and a bcu is so much lower than the other two, and even lower than most t1 destroyers
no speed to keep range so you won't be sniping for long
delayed dps means much of your already low dps will be wasted
big sig radius and low speed will make it easy for cruisers to hit


I know people will try to make this work because of the tank, but it will only work as a sniper doctrine if you can get a blob of t1 frigates to engage it.

For solo the only option is scram kiting but it sounds like it's too slow to control range against other brawlers even with dual webs, it's a sitting duck against kiters, and the other t3's will certainly wipe the floor with it especially with an oversize ab fitted.

I was hoping for a big hookbill, but looks more like a baby drake.

EDIT: Actually it might be good for gangs gate camping. with fast lock fit and tank for gate guns


The LML build is unlikely to work due to fitting issues and lack of speed to maintain range.

The Rocket brawler is where this thing is going to live. Provided I can actually fit it with T2 RLs and suitable tank, this thing will probably be scary as a sponge/tank in small gangs. The main issue it will face is when it get's 1v1'd and kited by some shitfit frigate with long-point.
Lisa Sophie d'Elancourt
Empusa.
#109 - 2015-05-11 19:49:13 UTC
I like general concept of this ship. I like 6+6+2 layout slot, which to my mind opens much more interesting choices than 6+5+3. I can deal with tight PG and I understand reasons you want to prevent oversized AB fitting. As well as I understand jackdaw been designed as the slowest T3 dessie. However I don't understand this ricidulous 160 velocity (confessor 235, svipul 230). That's just terrible and seems to be a sad joke.
Leonardo Adami
Doomheim
#110 - 2015-05-11 19:54:56 UTC
Jesus 90% of this thread is a bunch of whining. Either post constructive feedback so they can make positive changes or stfu with all the crying.
OHONA
Doomheim
#111 - 2015-05-11 19:56:03 UTC
this stupid t3 destroyers ruined all the t1 destroyers and all aslt frigs.. i dont understand what ccp actually wants .all these t3 are faster than aslt frigs and t1 destroyer.. why dont u just remove aslt frigs whats the point having them ???
Leonardo Adami
Doomheim
#112 - 2015-05-11 20:02:27 UTC
OHONA wrote:
this stupid t3 destroyers ruined all the t1 destroyers and all aslt frigs.. i dont understand what ccp actually wants .all these t3 are faster than aslt frigs and t1 destroyer.. why dont u just remove aslt frigs whats the point having them ???


Exactly what I'm talking about
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2015-05-11 20:46:55 UTC
The strong variance in mass seems like it's really throwing off base speeds at this point. This has half the mass of the confessor if I'm looking at the right numbers, meaning under prop mods it likely might be faster, but it gets rather difficult to compare when balanced like this.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#114 - 2015-05-11 20:57:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Fourteen Maken
double post
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#115 - 2015-05-11 20:59:59 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Here's a few of the inconsistencies:

Minmattar: 50% Dmg bonus, 50% dmg bonus
Amarr: 50% Dmg bonus, 50% dmg bonus
Caldari: 25% ROF Bonus, 50% Damage bonus.

This means the Jackdaw needs to fit an extra launcher just to achieve the same results and we lose a utility high. the net effect is -1 utility high

Base speed and agility: even if you waste a low slot by fitting nano you still don't get nearly as much speed and agility as the other two. -1 low slot to achieve lower base speed/agility ftw

The reversed propulsion bonuses: the other two can already fit oversized prop mods + more base speed and agility is there really any need to nerf the speed even more? I could be wrong but it looks like the jackdaw isn't even capable of controlling range against them in a brawl with an extra web fitted. So that a Jackdaw in prop mode with a T2 afterbuner +1 Scram +1 Nano +2 webs can't hold point on a svipul with an oversized AB even if the fight starts at zero ffs (that's 5 fitting slots used on range control and tackle vs two for the svipul, a prop mod and a long point).

More restricted fitting options means it's definitely going to be the most predictable of the three, so people will already have a good idea before the fight starts what your fit is, and it's the only one that can be kited to death by a shitfit condor with no hope of escape: a frigate doing 3500m/s at 18km orbit will outrun javelin rockets with ease even after the velocity bonus for missiles is counted.

A few other nerfs thrown in for good measure: slower lock time, less cap per second, and nearly double the sig radius.

This is by far the worst of the three so far, it's not even in the same class. It should have the best agility and base speed out of the three to make up for the fact that it doesn't get the huge speed boost from prop mode, and it should have the same high slot layout and bonuses as the others aswell.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2015-05-11 21:04:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Here's a few of the inconsistencies:

Minmattar: 50% Dmg bonus, 50% dmg bonus
Amarr: 50% Dmg bonus, 50% dmg bonus
Caldari: 25% ROF Bonus, 50% Damage bonus.

This means the Jackdaw needs to fit an extra launcher just to achieve the same results and we lose a utility high. the net effect is -1 utility high

Base speed and agility: even if you waste a low slot by fitting nano you still don't get nearly as much speed and agility as the other two. -1 low slot to achieve lower base speed/agility ftw

This is not quite accurate. The Jackdaw gets an effective 10 launchers against the 9 effective turrets of the other 2 destroyers.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#117 - 2015-05-11 21:11:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Fourteen Maken
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
It's also about in the middle ad far as speed is concerned under the effects of a prop mod due to having just over half the confessors mass and 2/3rds of the Svipul's.


I could be wrong because I don't know how to work that out I'm just going on what other players have said so we'll see when it hits the test server, but if it's going to be a 70mil isk punisher he can shove it.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2015-05-11 21:16:21 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Here's a few of the inconsistencies:

Minmattar: 50% Dmg bonus, 50% dmg bonus
Amarr: 50% Dmg bonus, 50% dmg bonus
Caldari: 25% ROF Bonus, 50% Damage bonus.

This means the Jackdaw needs to fit an extra launcher just to achieve the same results and we lose a utility high. the net effect is -1 utility high

Base speed and agility: even if you waste a low slot by fitting nano you still don't get nearly as much speed and agility as the other two. -1 low slot to achieve lower base speed/agility ftw

This is not quite accurate. The Jackdaw gets an effective 10 launchers against the 9 effective turrets of the other 2 destroyers. It's also about in the middle ad far as speed is concerned under the effects of a prop mod due to having just over half the confessors mass and 2/3rds of the Svipul's.


I could be wrong because I don't know how to work that out I'm just going on what other players have said so we'll see when it hits the test server, but if it's going to be a 70mil isk punisher he can shove it.

Actually I had the math on the speed wrong, it's actually the slowest (assuming I didn't mess up again), but not by nearly what the base speed alone would suggest.
Terra Chrall
Doomheim
#119 - 2015-05-11 21:34:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Terra Chrall
Okay it needs the 5 launchers because it can fit a max of 2 damage mods. Also, tight PG fitting, but I think it will work out okay, need to run some numbers of some fits. So that balances out. But the speed! Ouch.

A 1MN AB fit is gonna be slow. And a 1MN MWD fit with a 70 sig is gonna be fat. Can't be in defense mode and prop mode at the same time. So I don't see the slow base speed as working. I applaud the smaller velocity bonus from the prop mode, but the base speed is gonna really be a disadvantage for a brawler or a kiter. Please, please, please up the base speed.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#120 - 2015-05-11 23:04:27 UTC  |  Edited by: James Baboli
The PG is a skosh lower than I would like to see. A buff of 2 PG lets you rock a full t2 setup like thus

Highs
Light Missile launcher II
Light Missile launcher II
Light Missile launcher II
Light Missile launcher II
Light Missile launcher II

Mid slots
Medium shield extender II
1MN Micro-warpdrive II
Adaptive Invulnerability field II
Stasis webifier II
Warp Scrambler II
Small shield extender II

Low slots
Ballistic control system II
Damage control II

Rig slots
Ancillery Current Router I
Em Screen reinforcer II
Core defense field extender II

Without any implants, that should fit with all skills 5, with .5 PG and .5 CPU if you give it said buff

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp