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Trying to come up with a theory of implant and module synergy.
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Herateis
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-05-11 10:59:18 UTC
1% PG output isn't that great, especially on smaller ships, but maybe this is an oversimplification? What is the value of designing ships with modules to compound bonuses given by implants, in order to be able to do some nice fits? I know this is already done with speed fits, so I'm talking more about shield extenders or bigger guns, etc.

Is it possible to get some really nice tank or gank fits out of combining implants and PG or CPU modules to multiply the advantages into something bigger than what you could get normally?
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#2 - 2015-05-11 12:23:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
On some ships with very tight cpu or pg like the exhumer I use, definitely yes. I need both a T2 CPU rig and a 3% CPU implant to be able to have 2 MLU with a damage control II, plus 2 active and 1 passive T2 shield hardener with a T2 survey scanner on a mackinaw.

I would have to lower one active or passive hardener and the scanner for a meta3-4 without the implant at least.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#3 - 2015-05-11 12:40:41 UTC
The problem is that while this is (or at least used to be) significant with speed it isn't with conventional tank or gank.

Speed as a tank scales with engagement size really well - even since the great nano-nerf some would say too well.
That is to say that if you're too fast for one ship to break your tank it doesn't matter how many more ships are thrown into the fight... It becomes a matter of where they're thrown in, the pilotting on both sides and of hard counters (daredevils landing in range for example).

Meanwhile regardless of the size of your buffer or the level of your resists you will get burned down twice as fast by two ships as by one (or n+2 ships compared to n+1 ships, where n ships is sufficient to cancel out any active repair).

Not only that but the scaling of the fittings is significant - your frigate with 30PG is never going to be able to muster sufficient +x% bonuses to fit Battleship sized modules in the 500-1000PG range because even a +100% bonus only doubles your available fitting to 60PG... The gulf is simply too wide to cross.
To get sufficient PG to run a Medium shield extender may simply be a matter of downgrading guns but you're never going to get enough from PG implants to get much better than that - in which case you're running Neutrons where the usual fit is Ions, 180mm ACs where the norm is 150mm... The difference is insufficient to be worthwhile... unless the difference is an oversized AB (though Snakes or Halos may be a better deal in that case).
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#4 - 2015-05-11 14:54:14 UTC
there are a few fits floating around that need a pg or cpu implant to fit. is it an amazing difference over a fit without implants? probably not. but it will give you a competitive advantage for a few mil extra. for frigates that is probably the difference between downgrading 1 gun, adding a rig, or switching from a m4 to t2 shield extender. and that is probably on top of a MAPC.

this fit needs a 2% cpu implant, or you can swap the DCII to a meta version and not use an implant. or if you don't have AWUs trained you can sub a 3% PG implant.
[Federation Navy Comet, bleh]
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Warp Disruptor II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hobgoblin II x3
Hobgoblin II x3


I think it would be an interesting question to ask right now, what interesting fits can you do with the Genolution implants? that's a ~4.5% boost to CPU and PG, I think a few incursion mach fits use them.

In general I try to make my fits work without any fitting implants. I had a 3% pg implant for a while as I needed just a tiny bit of extra PG while I trained one of the rigging skills to 5. Turns out when I did train that and went to fly a different ship I had accidentally gone over on PG, I think it was an arty mach, although that was an easy fix that was actually a smart move, as it meant taking my gist a-type 100mn micro off and putting a meta mwd on. I bought it back when they were cheap, and didn't realize how expensive they got.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter