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How to kill a Garmur
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wilgotna
Perkone
Caldari State
#41 - 2015-05-11 01:07:38 UTC
Chester you are biased. You continually apply your game knowledge to your slicer but not to your opponent.

I've been arguing this whole thread and a different thread that what makes a garmur overpowered is links and snakes.

If you take into account that links work multiplicatively then it becomes obvious that the optimal garmur fit is sebo/scram or double sebo depending on what the pilot wishes to make their engagement profile. Also double t2 missile speed rigs.

The garmurs tank should be it's absurd range and speed. Not shield boosters. The instant something demonstrates that it has capability to touch the garmur at its ideal range then the pilot should warp out imediately. I assure you garmurs align faster than 8 seconds.
Angry Ex
Jita Honor Industries Union
#42 - 2015-05-11 04:23:47 UTC
Saw a newbro in help chat asking how to fit and fly a Garmur.


Folks said " don't, they're expensive and you should skill up more" He replies, "that's OK, I bought 10 of them."

This thread is popular.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#43 - 2015-05-11 07:07:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
wilgotna wrote:
Chester you are biased. You continually apply your game knowledge to your slicer but not to your opponent.

I've been arguing this whole thread and a different thread that what makes a garmur overpowered is links and snakes.

If you take into account that links work multiplicatively then it becomes obvious that the optimal garmur fit is sebo/scram or double sebo depending on what the pilot wishes to make their engagement profile. Also double t2 missile speed rigs.

The garmurs tank should be it's absurd range and speed. Not shield boosters. The instant something demonstrates that it has capability to touch the garmur at its ideal range then the pilot should warp out imediately. I assure you garmurs align faster than 8 seconds.


Glad to see you are starting to like my garmur fit after saying that no defscram is fail earlier :) You can use it as well as my maulus fit if you like.

Chesseur will not engage people with links which is probably why he didnt consider that part of your position. He will rage in game when you kill his anti-frig faction cruiser in a t1 frigate and block you for saying gf. Then he will go back to his dual boosted skynet camp because its ok for him to use certain game mechanics, but others not so much lol.

GF chessur, GF.

Beam slicers are pretty decent, i tend to counter them by changing my orbit distance rapidly, forcing them to keep having to change crystals to track or reach me. Or as chessur calls it, 'hitting orbit'. Ive often ended the fight in low armour or structure. TBH, you could probably just hit orbit at 10k and be comfortably under their guns. Not tried that though because im allergic to unexpected scrams.
Ares Desideratus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2015-05-11 13:44:01 UTC
His point was that if you want to compare the stats of one ship with links, it is only fair to give the other ship links as well. You can't just throw links on something and say "see? It's better", because every ship in the game is capable of being boosted.

Also if someone is flying unlinked you can't really blame them for not wanting to fight someone with links. If everything else is equal the guy with fleet bonuses will win.

I don't fly Slicers or Garmurs so I can't really say which is better, but I would hope that the Garmur would win in the end, I mean it's at least a couple tiers above the Slicer in terms of rank and cost, so logically it should be the all around superior combat vessel.

Still, Chessur's point stands, I think. Many Garmurs can be destroyed using the Slicer, maybe it's just because most Garmurs are terrible but it's still the truth.

If you want to be the champ you gotta beat the champ. If you wanna destroy an elite ship you gotta use an elite ship and / or elite tactics and strategy.
wilgotna
Perkone
Caldari State
#45 - 2015-05-11 14:20:50 UTC  |  Edited by: wilgotna
i cant understand why people keep saying "one ship with links is the same as another ship with links!@!!@!"

NO

ive already explained that it's because links work off percentages

so a garmur with an rf point gets a WAY BETTER bonus from links than an ordinary frigate does
Ares Desideratus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2015-05-11 14:34:27 UTC
The Garmur isn't an ordinary frigate... What about the Daredevil and the Succubus ? Those ships must have dramatic performance enhancements from the use of links.

Still I can see where their mode of operations pales in comparison to teh Garmur. The ship's style really is the pinnacle of what a combat ship should be isn't it? Expertly piloted the thing is damn near untouchable.

What pisses me off most though is the Cruor. That ship is still so crap. CCP think they can throw 1 freaking drone on it and that makes it usable?

"Hey, we're sorry the Cruor is so crap. We'll add a drone bay with 1 drone on it, that'll make it better" . What the hell are we supposed to do with that 1 drone? The ship is pathetic.
Ares Desideratus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2015-05-11 15:28:38 UTC
Also no one said "one ship with links is the same as another ship with links" what Chessur said was that if you give stats with links for one ship you must do the same for the next ship.

I haven't flown anything but Amarr ships in a long time, but it seems to me like the Daredevil would make the perfect counter to a Garmur. The Daredevil is faster, has a 90% webbing power, and with a Fed Navy web and a "proper" fitting and technique it should be able to prey on Garmur's pretty easily shouldn't it?
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#48 - 2015-05-14 15:31:44 UTC
Any long range fit cruiser, battlecruiser or battle ship has a good chance of popping a garmur. You have to time it though. Watch the garmur's transversal and speed, put a target painter on him and wait. When either transversal or speed become less than 10 it's time to start firing. If an arty anything hit's him once - it's over. The trick is to lock and paint then apply patience. Wait for that moment of low speed and/or transversal. Poof. Don't just lock and start shooting - you have to wait for the garmur pilot to help you.

This is especially true if you have friends that are attempting to tackle him. Manual garmur piloting becomes your friend at this point. 50 is a good speed number and 35 is a good transversal number if the garmur pilot is running a mwd. If you catch the guy slowning in a turn - PAPOOF.

I'm not sure if I have to mention it or not but this is for rails, beams and arties. It is not for any type of missile platform.

I don't fly the ishtard, but you could look into if they can track a garmur or not with sentries and the drone tracking modules. I would think yes?? It's OP, so why wouldn't it be able to blapa blapa a garmur?
wilgotna
Perkone
Caldari State
#49 - 2015-05-15 06:04:29 UTC
tard alert tard alert

dont worry im here to translate your joke of a post

"ok guys u can easily kill a garmur with a specifically fit cruiser and above, which would easily get solod by an atron with an afterburner. okay so once the garmur starts engaging your battleship. first you gotta wait to make sure he doesnt call in his gang of buddies, because hes actually planning to solo your battleship. then you gotta make sure the garmur pilot socket closes and drops his speed to 10 ms. thats your queue to FIRE BOOM HES DEAD WOOOO"

"if that doesnt work make sure you have multiple friends trying to tackle him while you sit there with your finger on the arties button. shouldnt be hard to blap that annoying garmur when you have 5 ceptors chasing him around!!!!@!@!"

"btw i dont pvp but i heard ishtars are op so those counter garmurs right?"

-quality post by serendipity
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#50 - 2015-05-15 11:01:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
wilgotna wrote:
tard alert tard alert

Things that counter one thing are weak to another, and there is an advantage to flying in groups. THE GAME IS BROKEN!



FTFY.
Ares Desideratus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2015-05-15 13:21:34 UTC
wilgotna wrote:
tard alert tard alert

dont worry im here to translate your joke of a post

"ok guys u can easily kill a garmur with a specifically fit cruiser and above, which would easily get solod by an atron with an afterburner. okay so once the garmur starts engaging your battleship. first you gotta wait to make sure he doesnt call in his gang of buddies, because hes actually planning to solo your battleship. then you gotta make sure the garmur pilot socket closes and drops his speed to 10 ms. thats your queue to FIRE BOOM HES DEAD WOOOO"

"if that doesnt work make sure you have multiple friends trying to tackle him while you sit there with your finger on the arties button. shouldnt be hard to blap that annoying garmur when you have 5 ceptors chasing him around!!!!@!@!"

"btw i dont pvp but i heard ishtars are op so those counter garmurs right?"

-quality post by serendipity

Why you gotta be like that
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#52 - 2015-05-17 12:22:16 UTC
Wow, you sound incredible tense wilgotna. Please show on the garmur doll where the bad slicer touched you.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
wilgotna
Perkone
Caldari State
#53 - 2015-05-17 16:48:37 UTC
He touched me in my exhaust port
Triakis Cadelanne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2015-05-18 10:33:00 UTC
wilgotna wrote:
tard alert tard alert

dont worry im here to translate your joke of a post

"ok guys u can easily kill a garmur with a specifically fit cruiser and above, which would easily get solod by an atron with an afterburner. okay so once the garmur starts engaging your battleship. first you gotta wait to make sure he doesnt call in his gang of buddies, because hes actually planning to solo your battleship. then you gotta make sure the garmur pilot socket closes and drops his speed to 10 ms. thats your queue to FIRE BOOM HES DEAD WOOOO"

"if that doesnt work make sure you have multiple friends trying to tackle him while you sit there with your finger on the arties button. shouldnt be hard to blap that annoying garmur when you have 5 ceptors chasing him around!!!!@!@!"

"btw i dont pvp but i heard ishtars are op so those counter garmurs right?"

-quality post by serendipity


You'd add some tequila with that salt ....
Ares Desideratus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2015-05-18 19:37:21 UTC
If you wanna kill a Garmur you just gotta shoot at him. Lasers are pretty good for it I find
Burtakus
Lone W0lf Society
#56 - 2015-05-18 21:39:51 UTC
Fed Navy Comet = a Garmur's worst nightmare.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#57 - 2015-05-19 01:06:48 UTC
1 word
Rapier

Garmurs kinda go poof when they get hit with multiple long range webs and then a quick volley of artillery or a burst of speed into autocannon ranges

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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Corail Amber
Losing All Hope Was Freedom
#58 - 2015-05-19 03:35:37 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
1 word
Rapier

Garmurs kinda go poof when they get hit with multiple long range webs and then a quick volley of artillery or a burst of speed into autocannon ranges


Once again you're suggesting a tech 2 cruiser to deal with a pirate frigate.

I only partially agree with wilgotna because I don't hink the Garmur is that op, I just think it scales way too well with links, but all those posts implying you need to either upship specifically to counter and / or bring a blob to kill a solo pirate frigate pilot are irrelevant at best, and at worst they're just confirming his point ; it's pretty ridiculous to have to upship an opponent that hard or blob him that hard just because he dumped loads of isk into his pod and link alt.
It's not really a fun and well designed gameplay perspective.
Burtakus
Lone W0lf Society
#59 - 2015-05-19 14:24:29 UTC
Just to see what the fuss is all about, I fit up and flew a Garmur last night. Damn this thing is awesome. I get the frustration that people would have. I think it collected the most tears from those that were used to flying pirate/faction frigs and the T3Ds. These folks went from easy mode kills to suffering a slow agonizing death at the hands of my mighty 130 dps.


The only thing i came across i had to let go was a stabber with 220 ACs that was landing hits on me out to 55km while i was burning around at 7km/s. Stabber FTW.

I still contend that a properly fit comet/firetail could really ruin my shiny toys day. I was also introduced to how effective a single sniper corm can be against a Garmur when in a small fleet fight.

Overall a solid ship but not nearly as OP as ya'll are making it out to be. If it were we would see more of them.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#60 - 2015-05-19 16:30:27 UTC
Corail Amber wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
1 word
Rapier

Garmurs kinda go poof when they get hit with multiple long range webs and then a quick volley of artillery or a burst of speed into autocannon ranges


Once again you're suggesting a tech 2 cruiser to deal with a pirate frigate.

I only partially agree with wilgotna because I don't hink the Garmur is that op, I just think it scales way too well with links, but all those posts implying you need to either upship specifically to counter and / or bring a blob to kill a solo pirate frigate pilot are irrelevant at best, and at worst they're just confirming his point ; it's pretty ridiculous to have to upship an opponent that hard or blob him that hard just because he dumped loads of isk into his pod and link alt.
It's not really a fun and well designed gameplay perspective.


In theory the T2 Electronic attack frig could do the same exact thing, plus with a TP bonus it would make short work of a garmur, the keres would do fine as well. Plus we see garmurs die to T1 frigates too so there are ways to counter them outside upsizing to a new hull class

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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