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[P.P.C.] Announcement of Pakhshi Peace Conference

Author
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#81 - 2015-05-10 17:24:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Evi Polevhia
Liam Antolliere wrote:
However, it is the belief of the Conference that even the most extreme of viewpoints can be fielded in order to address them and the manner in which we conduct ourselves in light of them is of utmost importance. Excluding a particular delegate because of their tendency to behave a particular way may have been prudent, but allowing the General Congress a chance to be met with contention and to prove they have the will and ability to overcome such an obstacle is paramount.


This is not the song you sung a few pages ago. I distinctly remember in fact this being the exact opposite of what was said a few pages ago.

You may not like it but we are a people that exist. We are members of a political entity that existed peacefully for many years before being attacked. At one point there was peace. And myself and many others want there to be peace again.

The PPC claims we are not invited due to extreme viewpoints, and invites others with extreme viewpoints.
The PPC claims we are not invited due to not being a political entity, and proceeds to invite people who do not speak for or represent a political entity.
There are claims that this is done for security reasons, despite the fact that Kim has demonstrated herself to be such a security threat that her presence was apparently limited to a holoprojection. And Nation supporters have peacefully attended, in person, events held by Capsuleers such as the Seyllin Conference. Even when said conference was discussing the 'Threat of Sansha's Nation', members loyal to Nation were not barred entry.

All that is left to conclude is that either there is a bias against Nation in the organizers or that the whole thing is a farce. Admit the real reason why we are barred and genocidal Capsuleers like Kim are allowed, or admit that there is no valid reason.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#82 - 2015-05-10 19:46:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Vikarion
EDIT: Problem resolved for the moment.
Liam Antolliere
Doomheim
#83 - 2015-05-10 20:02:01 UTC
Liam Antolliere wrote:
Sansha's Nation is not a political entity. Sansha's Nation is a cult of personality in pursuit of a despot's idea of utopia.

At this time, the conference has elected to view Sansha's Nation as an apolitical non-entity as it has never provided any interest of peace nor coexistence.


The P.P.C. will reiterate the stated purpose behind the exclusion of Sansha's Nation. As misquoted above, the stated reason was not "extreme viewpoints," the stated reason was that Sansha's Nation is an apolitical entity, which it is. Nation has no bearing or involvement in the astropolitical arena of the cluster, it exists as a cult of followers beholden to a single entity's idea of a utopia and has expressed the intent to pursue that idea with abductions and military action absent any attempt at diplomacy.

Nation has never been recognized as a political entity by any of the existing political entities in the cluster, nor has it ever sought to accomplish such a recognition. It has had no involvement in treaties, armistices or agreements; has no internal political system that has ever been recognized by any external polity and has never engaged in diplomatic discourse on any official level with any nation or political entity.

Nation has expressed a hostile stance against all existing nations, communities and political entities within the cluster. Nation has taken hostile military action against all existing nations, communities and political entities. Nation has, to date, not expressed a concern for reconciliation, peaceful coexistence or any diplomatic solution barring those expressed by an independent group of capsuleer Nation loyalists.

Whether the viewpoint is popular or not is irrelevant, the administrators of the Conference have elected to deny entry to Nation under these grounds.

"Though the people may hate me, that does not relieve me of my charge."

Liam Antolliere
Doomheim
#84 - 2015-05-10 20:04:52 UTC
Mister Vikarion,

The P.P.C. Administration permitted the admission of Commander Kim as a legal entity under the State's Patriot bloc and has considered, at length, the voices and testaments of other State-loyal delegates in concern to this admission.

The P.P.C. claims no foreknowledge to the status of Commander Kim as an illegal entity under the State.

If this decision has been made in error, we encourage you and any other State-loyal delegate to express your concerns through proper channels available within the Conference.

"Though the people may hate me, that does not relieve me of my charge."

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#85 - 2015-05-10 20:16:51 UTC
Liam Antolliere wrote:
Liam Antolliere wrote:
Sansha's Nation is not a political entity. Sansha's Nation is a cult of personality in pursuit of a despot's idea of utopia.

At this time, the conference has elected to view Sansha's Nation as an apolitical non-entity as it has never provided any interest of peace nor coexistence.


The P.P.C. will reiterate the stated purpose behind the exclusion of Sansha's Nation. As misquoted above, the stated reason was not "extreme viewpoints," the stated reason was that Sansha's Nation is an apolitical entity, which it is. Nation has no bearing or involvement in the astropolitical arena of the cluster, it exists as a cult of followers beholden to a single entity's idea of a utopia and has expressed the intent to pursue that idea with abductions and military action absent any attempt at diplomacy.

Nation has never been recognized as a political entity by any of the existing political entities in the cluster, nor has it ever sought to accomplish such a recognition. It has had no involvement in treaties, armistices or agreements; has no internal political system that has ever been recognized by any external polity and has never engaged in diplomatic discourse on any official level with any nation or political entity.

Nation has expressed a hostile stance against all existing nations, communities and political entities within the cluster. Nation has taken hostile military action against all existing nations, communities and political entities. Nation has, to date, not expressed a concern for reconciliation, peaceful coexistence or any diplomatic solution barring those expressed by an independent group of capsuleer Nation loyalists.

Whether the viewpoint is popular or not is irrelevant, the administrators of the Conference have elected to deny entry to Nation under these grounds.



Forgive me for wondering but... Can this not be said for every other 'pirate' faction too, with the exception of the Serpentis Corp ?
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#86 - 2015-05-10 20:24:00 UTC
It leads me to think that the PPC organizers are Angel sympathizers, to be honest, being that members of the Angel Cartel were invited.
Liam Antolliere
Doomheim
#87 - 2015-05-10 20:42:49 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:


Forgive me for wondering but... Can this not be said for every other 'pirate' faction too, with the exception of the Serpentis Corp ?


Not precisely.

Even the CONCORD established "pirate" factions have been shown to have both business and political dealings with other nations and political entities and have, on occasion, worked with such entities toward a common goal.

While not necessarily legitimate political entities or nations, they have both direct and indirect involvement in the political and financial affairs of the cluster and can be potentially reasoned with toward a common, workable solution of peaceful coexistence.

"Though the people may hate me, that does not relieve me of my charge."

Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2015-05-10 21:12:17 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
It leads me to think that the PPC organizers are Angel sympathizers, to be honest, being that members of the Angel Cartel were invited.



Unlike our competition, the Cartel has existed for a century. We have what is best described as a political system, with checks and balances. We're not a cult of personality like the Rabbits. And while we exist and operate outside the law, our goal is not the enslavement or destruction of humanity as we see with Omir's Bloodraiders or Sansha's Nation.

Our interest in the peace process is because the above mentioned groups, in addition to emergent threats such as the Drifters or Rogue Drones, puts us as a species at risk.

I can assure you that the organizers of this event are not sympathetic to us, but they recognize that we have a unique perspective, based on a century of working with and against each government faction.

Extinction is bad for business.


"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."

Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#89 - 2015-05-10 22:15:48 UTC
Liam Antolliere wrote:
Even the CONCORD established "pirate" factions have been shown to have both business and political dealings with other nations and political entities and have, on occasion, worked with such entities toward a common goal.

So just going to ignore the existing political and business relations between Nation and the Gurista as well as Sank Sabik? Not to mention the trade and political deals going on between Nation, the Amarr, and the Caldari before the empires attacked?

There isn't a lack of political and economic ties. There's a lack of empire loyalists recognizing Nation's long standing ties to the cluster. Nation would not have been possible without the Empire selling Matari and the State selling technology. Don't ignore the past when it suits you.

And Pilot Mokk, I assure you extinction is no more palatable to us. I would sell my soul, if I believed I had one to barter with, if it would grant us an end to our wars. We all seek two things. How to end a war to our own benefit, and failing that how to persue a war to our own benefit. Mistake not our actions. Omir seeks blood. Nation seeks to rebuild what was taken away from us by the fire of the empires. This can be done through peace if people would set aside old prejudices.
Liam Antolliere
Doomheim
#90 - 2015-05-11 11:41:29 UTC
Allow me to put aside diplomacy and speak plainly then, Pilot Polevhia.

When Sansha Kuvakei originally rose to prominence, he drew people to him simply by the force of his personality and his promise of a utopia. People came to him of their own volition and the Empires did not stop it.

When it was discovered that Kuvakei was engaged in gross human experimentation and cybernetic transformation, the results of which were so heinous that it prompted an immediate alliance between every major empire in the cluster, Nation was attacked and destroyed.

Two centuries later, Kuvakei returns but with a different mode of operation. Now, instead of simply inviting others to come, Nation abducts them, staging incursions into empire space to abduct planetary civilizations. Instead of seeking only to create a utopia for those who wish to come, Kuvakei has stated and acted with intent to destroy current empires and eradicate capsuleers.

Your Nation today is not the same Nation from before. Your mode of operation is different. Your stated purpose is different.

Even if it were, "what you had before" prompted an immediate purging from all the major empires in the cluster. What makes you think that "wanting it back" would be any more welcome now than it was before?

Your Master understands this, which is why he didn't come seeking peace.

Stop playing at it and be honest with yourselves.

"Though the people may hate me, that does not relieve me of my charge."

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#91 - 2015-05-11 11:50:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Liam Antolliere wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:


Forgive me for wondering but... Can this not be said for every other 'pirate' faction too, with the exception of the Serpentis Corp ?


Not precisely.

Even the CONCORD established "pirate" factions have been shown to have both business and political dealings with other nations and political entities and have, on occasion, worked with such entities toward a common goal.

While not necessarily legitimate political entities or nations, they have both direct and indirect involvement in the political and financial affairs of the cluster and can be potentially reasoned with toward a common, workable solution of peaceful coexistence.


Uh... I do not think so, respectfully...

Those 'pirate' factions are by definition entities feeding of the empires and exist as criminal elements, outlawed, and willing to work outside of the law. You can indeed reason with some individuals that left said laws and nations for legitimate reasons, and maybe bring them back to the fold by solving fundamental issues they have (like the Serpentis, legalize and liberalize drug business again and they will run back to the Federation in less than a week). However, unless you basically remove all law and framework, organizations such as the Cartel for instance, will always exist because their true purpose is precisely to act outside of the law...

Of course then, one might argue that it can be solved by removing interstellar law, but similar things could be said for the Nation or the blooders, as long as one starts to allow blood ceremonies and uplifting by nanites.
Zenariae
#92 - 2015-05-11 12:03:27 UTC
What use is peace to the downtrodden, the destitute, the oppressed if they don't know where their next meal is coming from or where they will find rest?

Whatever everyone's bickering interests, conflicts or opinions, there is one thing that peace is not, and that's a puzzle, however people make it one by declaring it on their own terms. We know this because it doesn't mean simply the absence of conflict or opposition, specifically because it's a feeling, one that comes from the heart, one that we feel the more potently as it fades into shadows that cloud our vision from the intent to preserve human dignity first beyond politics, religion or economics.

Until compassion rules our hearts, compassion towards those with little or no hope, peace will never be possible, not in this cluster, not in this time. Peace means little to a tortured slave or prisoner or refugee with no control over their own destiny. It means nothing to the homeless or those without employment. It provides no respite to those who suffer disease and may be dead tomorrow. Talk of peace is meaningless without also extending compassion and dialogue to groups such as Sansha and Sabik, because they are blind to peace and need to be shown that dignity is universal and exceeds the need for selfish ideologies.

Peace follows from compassion, not the other way.
Liam Antolliere
Doomheim
#93 - 2015-05-11 12:08:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Liam Antolliere
With respect Mademoiselle Zenariae,

The Conference can no more attend to the needs of the destitute in the cluster than it can force the governments to abide by its decrees.

While you are not incorrect in your assessment, there is a process by which such a state of peace can be achieved. The removal of conflict on as many levels as possible will allow for a diverting of funds and attention toward other matters; such as infrastructure, provision for the poor, better education standards, job creation, law review, cultural advancement and so on.

By providing a workable solution toward military peace, we can turn our attention toward a higher state of peace such as what you have described. One step leads to another, but that step must be taken first.

On an individual level, we can tend to the destitute and provide care and support for those in need.

"Though the people may hate me, that does not relieve me of my charge."

Liam Antolliere
Doomheim
#94 - 2015-05-11 12:18:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Liam Antolliere
Lyn Farel wrote:


Those 'pirate' factions are by definition entities feeding of the empires and exist as criminal elements, outlawed, and willing to work outside of the law. You can indeed reason with some individuals that left said laws and nations for legitimate reasons, and maybe bring them back to the fold by solving fundamental issues they have (like the Serpentis, legalize and liberalize drug business again and they will run back to the Federation in less than a week). However, unless you basically remove all law and framework, organizations such as the Cartel for instance, will always exist because their true purpose is precisely to act outside of the law...

Of course then, one might argue that it can be solved by removing interstellar law, but similar things could be said for the Nation or the blooders, as long as one starts to allow blood ceremonies and uplifting by nanites.


Respectfully,

It was never stated the they were not illegal elements of society. It was stated that they are established as "pirate" factions under CONCORD jurisdiction. Groups such as Mordu's Legion and the Sisters of Eve are also "pirate" factions under CONCORD jurisdiction because they operate outside of assembly law.

The purpose of the Conference is not to establish an all-encompassing letter-of-law, it is to build a framework for a road to military, ideological and economic peace. Doing so will invariably require the cooperation of these elements and so they have been included.

The only entities excluded, as stated above, are those whose purpose for existence cannot be reconciled with the conference's intentions at this time.

"Though the people may hate me, that does not relieve me of my charge."

Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#95 - 2015-05-11 13:11:31 UTC
Pilot Antolliere, you almost sound as if you truly think Nation is the only government that is trying to force its culture and laws on to others. Last I heard, the Amarr and Gallente were fairly adept at this themselves. Though the Amarr certainly take first place in the competition with their few orders of a magnitude higher scale of abduction and Drug/Religion induced brainwashing.

And despite how there are many within the Federation and Republic that cannot stand the Empire any more than they can Nation, I'm certainly glad to know they get a free pass due to Religion.

At the very least no one can say I didn't try. Best of luck with your conference.
Liam Antolliere
Doomheim
#96 - 2015-05-11 13:16:35 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Pilot Antolliere, you almost sound as if you truly think Nation is the only government that is trying to force its culture and laws on to others. Last I heard, the Amarr and Gallente were fairly adept at this themselves. Though the Amarr certainly take first place in the competition with their few orders of a magnitude higher scale of abduction and Drug/Religion induced brainwashing.

And despite how there are many within the Federation and Republic that cannot stand the Empire any more than they can Nation, I'm certainly glad to know they get a free pass due to Religion.

At the very least no one can say I didn't try. Best of luck with your conference.


An adept attempt as sleight-of-hand, Pilot Polevhia.

Nowhere did I indicate that Nation was the only government attempting to foist its culture and laws onto others.

The difference between Nation and the Empire is simple: the Empire participates in and is bound by international law to the extent that excursions into other national territory is punishable on an international level and they are held to account for it.

Nation has literally none of the above qualities. It conducts incursions and abductions with legal impunity because rather than be a part of the international community, it seeks to circumvent it.

Nor was religion ever mentioned except by you.

Thank you for the well wishes.

"Though the people may hate me, that does not relieve me of my charge."

Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#97 - 2015-05-11 13:21:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Evi Polevhia
Liam Antolliere wrote:


The difference between Nation and the Empire is simple: the Empire participates in and is bound by international law to the extent that excursions into other national territory is punishable on an international level and they are held to account for it.

Conveniently leaving out that they got to write it. Also, not sure this is true. I hear a lot of talk about "coming for our people" out of the Matari. I don't think they agree that the Amarr have been held to account.
Markus Error
Manfios
#98 - 2015-05-11 15:03:05 UTC
They haven't... but that's part of the reason this conference is occurring.

"If it cannot be shot the #### down, it can always be blown the #### up."

-Unknown

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#99 - 2015-05-11 19:17:23 UTC
Mr Antolliere,

Uh well... that is what I have been puzzled at, actually... I do not see much difference between something like the Cartel, and the Nation, or the Raiders...

Well... That is what my point actually was... The Cartel do not seem very different... The only difference being that they live inside, and not outside of empires borders...

Also, I am pretty sure that the SoE and Mordu operate in compliance with interstellar law... Well, most of the time, I hope. But most break it behind the curtain pretty regularly, anyway.
Liam Antolliere
Doomheim
#100 - 2015-05-12 15:05:46 UTC
It is with deep sorrow that I have the responsibility of making the following announcement:

The Honourable Doctor Arkon Sarain, Chief Justice of the Kor-Azor Roving Tribunal and Chair of the Pahkshi Peace Conference was found dead in his private offices this morning. A thorough investigation by the security team and external forensics and investigative teams provided no leads on the culprit; there were no signs of forced entry, no forensic evidence left behind and the security footage is missing exactly sixty seconds of information, showing the doctor at his desk beginning to work at his console and then immediately showing the aftermath of the murder.

It is the collective decision of the remaining administrators of the P.P.C., with permission from the estate, to release for public perusal the contents of the journal entry he was working on at the time of his death:

Arkon Sarain Final Log Entry wrote:

hree days... three days and though I haven't slept, any free time I have I spend in the chapel praying, and though there has been nothing but obstacles before us I remain hopeful. Why? Maybe I am mad, but if it is mad to want peace then I don't think I wish to be sane! But no because in those rooms sitting across from one another are people who hate each other, fought each other, whose peoples have done great and seemingly impossible wrongs to each other... and yet there they sit, and they talk. They yell, they stamp there feet, and God if looks could kill I would be alone in that room. But in spite of all that, they sit there and they talk.

Hope in the common cause, the greatest cause, peace. And maybe peace is like so many truths a lone flash of lightning in a long night of wrongs... but still like lightning it existed, it illuminated, it was. And our senses can feel it, know it, and whisper to us that it existed, it existed. We can be, and be better for it existed... and must again.

The journal ends here the cursor indicating the entry had not yet been concluded.


For religious reasons, Doctor Sarain did not maintain a soft clone and so it is a great tragedy that such an outstanding and remarkable life has now been drawn to a permanent end.

While there have been no leads, the security forces of the Pahkshi Peace Conference will not cease attempting to identify and locate the culprit. It should also be stated that security at the Pahkshi Peace Conference has been elevated, including the installment of several new automated security systems as well as an exponential increase in the fielded security personnel.

There will be two more announcements directly following this in relation to the Pahkshi Peace Conference.

"Though the people may hate me, that does not relieve me of my charge."