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Buy Order Scam
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Arsikere
Loner Nomads
#1 - 2015-05-08 22:53:27 UTC
So, we've all seen the contract/buy order scam where someone is selling a collection of around 8 random modules, a few of them rare, and one of them exceptionally rare, usually the first one. You check the market for said items and one of them, usually the rarest one, has an unusually high, sometimes massive, buy order out for it in the local market. The contract is going for far less then the buy order, which means if you accept the contract and then sell the items, you'll be at a huge gain. But when you accept the contract, suddenly that (those) huge buy order disappears, and the scammer thanks you in local, maybe with a heart or something else rather douchey, and the scam is complete.

I figured one way to get around this was to go buy the same item somewhere else, come back and sell it to that buy order without accepting the contract, which I did. I flew from Dodixie to Jita and back. The scam contract was still up, the buy order was still there. But when I went to sell the item, it wouldn't sell to the huge buy order. It would only sell it to the one below it. It's like it didn't exist at all.

I am wondering how this is possible to put up a phantom buy order? Can someone explain this to me?
Haffsol
#2 - 2015-05-08 23:06:24 UTC
Simply by the one who issued said buy order not having the money in the wallet. Welcome to the Margin Trading scam.
Haffsol
#3 - 2015-05-08 23:06:43 UTC
edit: double
Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-05-08 23:46:15 UTC
To go more in details:

Margin Trading reduce the amount of money you need to put in the buy order, I think at level V it's just 32.5% of the buy order while at I it's 80%.

Now you simply train the skill, you place a buy order for an item, usually something very expensive, pay part of the buy order in advance and send away all your isks.

The second part is to put on the market said item, usually selling it for far more than its actual value, and then trick people to buy the item to resell it "to you". Officer mods are good for this, since there are very little of these and you can control better the scam.

When a person buy the item and find out your cannot fulfill the order, you can simply cancel it, get your money back plus the sale of the overpriced mod.

Is it cheating or bug abusing? Not really, it wasn't a bug making the person click "buy", but your words convinced him to do so. The person surely didn't know of this scam / game mechanic, but the person being oblivious of the scam itself is part of the success.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-05-09 09:27:40 UTC
Also could be that the big buy order had a minimum quantity and you didn't have enough of that item. That's common with margin trading scams.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#6 - 2015-05-09 18:17:57 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Good ole margin trading, the only risk that the perpetrator is taking is the Broker's fee. Smile

Thread belongs in the Market Discussion. P

...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤

[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Fighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
Ave Kathrina
My Ass Is On Fire
#7 - 2015-05-09 18:40:32 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Good ole margin trading, the only risk that the perpetrator is taking is the Broker's fee. Smile

Thread belongs in the Market Discussion. P


Thread belongs in some sort of archive called, "Market PVP - how I learned to think critically"
I've done some really stupid shit in this game.
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#8 - 2015-05-10 10:28:35 UTC
To my mind the ability to do this is a broken game mechanic but it is still legal like other stuff such as 'hyper-dunking' so you have to be wary. As in RL though if something looks to good to be true then it often is and you shouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-05-11 06:44:52 UTC
On one hand, I think it would make sense that buy orders were binding.

If there isn't enough ISK to cover a buy order, the seller could have 3 options:


Option 1: Cancel the sale entirely. In this case the buy order is cancelled as today.

Option 2: In case of multiple quantities, sell just what is covered by the escrow. The rest of the buy order is cancelled

Option 3: Go on with the complete sale. In this case:
- The seller gets the escrow as a partial payment
- The buyer gets a negative wallet but all the sold items
- The seller gets a credit from the buyer: he'll get the ISK if and when the buyer relpenishes his wallet


Or a combination of the above.


But, on the other hand, people shouldn't buy stuff of which they don't know the actual value, just because they see one possible buy order on the market...

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Black Pedro
Mine.
#10 - 2015-05-11 08:33:09 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
On one hand, I think it would make sense that buy orders were binding.

No buy orders are binding until they are filled. They can be cancelled or changed at anytime, or filled by someone else before you complete the trade. Do not base your trading decisions on a single order that you see as it could easily be gone by the time you try to fill it even if it is not a margin trading scam order.

The margin trading scam is just one flavour of the various "pump-and-dump"-type scams there are in Eve. It is easily avoided by looking at the market information tools that CCP has provided and knowing the value of an item before you load up on a speculative trade out of greed.

OP, here is a good write-up if you are interested in setting some up of your own: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=18942

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-05-11 09:13:26 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
No buy orders are binding until they are filled. They can be cancelled or changed at anytime, or filled by someone else before you complete the trade.
This is true and makes perfect sense. I stand corrected!

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!