Player Features and Ideas Discussion

For a: lets have pve fatigue. after an hour or two of rat killing I and noob are done.

I have several billion in the bank to now do trading. Noob won't.

I have several billion to fire up manufacturing. Noob won't.


See the trend. I have billions, billions a noob won't (barring etc to plex to plex sale ofc...a questionable use of that rl money imo here though). Now how did I get these billions? Long ago as a noob...I killed lots of rats for hours on end when I had more game time.

Could Botters/afk make more than I? Yes, I will grant this. But I had my fair chance to make my isk as well to get my start funds.

This hard cutoff not changing this. Your average botter/afk'er is a bitter. Who has their billions upon billions already. There is no great equality here. reduce the rat money, the bitter has more options with isk on hand they have now.

Which many of them do as is now. Some of the richest players I have know....did not spam rat killing pve. They make isk in the very things this idea is allowing to go un-fatigued. One I knew had no time to rat. time split between pvp and maintaining his empire and low sec pos strings. Empire pos's built stuff. Low sec was reaction pos'. His monthly operational costs for fuels and such alone was in the billions. Billions he made back with the greatest of ease. Only time he ratted was to fix sec status when motivated to. He liked being a pirate.

You all make some very good and valid points, some of which I have not seen before and I agree with, for example the increasing value of assets already in the game. That is indeed a fulfillment of Malcanis' law, I think.

Other arguments I still do not agree with.

I will not answer to all, I have spent too much time on this yesterday already :-)

Some thoughts after reading your comments:

* No, I am not Gevlon. Note my much better grasp (or at least usage) of the English language, for example ;-)

* I agree that if the intention is to produce an advantage for real players over bots and afk-playstyle, then limiting real players in doing something they enjoy doing for long hours is not the best approach.

* Fatigueable activites could be measured by: running a mining laser / having the NPC-interaction timer running (the one from shooting an NPC) / PI-interface clicks (while I would actually exclude PI - you can only sensibly do so much to your planets anyway, after that it becomes highly unproductive). Being logged into the game and only chatting with corpmates would actually reduce any fatigue. Oh, and since I am in FW atm: circling a capture point.

* Market activity already HAS not only a fatigue, but actually a hard limit that hits much quicker than after 50+ hours / week of doing it regularly, for all of those who are apparently oblivious of it: each character can only have 305 active buy/sell orders at the same time. Now how does that sound to all of you clamoring against limits and / or for an application to Mr. Goblin's main activity?

* My understanding of OP is this (and if OP means something else, well, then this is what I was and am arguing for): when one account is doing the same thing for more than 100 hours / week, then fatigue sets in for that single activity. It grows slowly at first, but when growing uninterrupted, it grows ever quicker. If allowed to accumulate, it makes the activity next to worthless (exponentially diminishing returns with a very low starting slope). Level of fatigue directly translates into less income from the fatigued activity. Stopping the activity, whether logged in or out, reduces fatigue gradually.

Many were saying something along the lines of "player has to stop activity xy after 2 hours". No. I am arguing on a completely different scale. Any mentally and bodily healthy person who does the same ISK-generating eve-online activity for more than 100 hours / week for more than two weeks in a row - isn't.

Even with 50 hours / week with the very same activity we are looking at a very rare (I hope!) kind of person who definitely needs an incentive to do something else.

Even a marathon weekend with friends - how many of those would one spend ONLY on actively mining, or ONLY ratting or another of those activities the whole frigging time? If you did, what would be the point of spending it with friends?

With this scale-of-relevance (100 hours / week buffer), the vast majority of players that are actively playing the game and have not become human vegetables will be completely unaffected themselves. (Simply put: no real player would ever even notice such a feature. CCP could silently implement it and whoever notices it and complains to CCP is in for a thorough scrutiny of his accounts.) And of the few real players that would be affected, CCP would actually do them a favour to give them a nudge to go give their brain some variety (in their state of mind, I actually doubt they would even notice). The only ones who will be adversely affected would be the non-human interactors. It would limit the influx of ISK and assets from them and limit the unfair advantage that those who run the bots have. And thus favour the people really, actively playing the game.

Banning bots entirely would be even better. We all know that CCP has not managed yet to do that. Next best to getting rid of a malady is to reduce the severity of its effects. OP has shown a way that would help with that.

Still +1.

This is the very problem: currently a normal human player is more or less mandated to buy extra PLEX-es to play EVE, making the game practically pay-to-win with the bizarre twist that he isn't even paying to the developer, but he pays for the account of a no-lifer player. Why should anyone pay money to another player for the privilege of playing the game?!

While I'm not trying to stop PLEX trading (as it is necessary to somehow limit RMT) and I see no problem if some moron pays $1500 to buy a titan from a PL or Snuff Box alt, I do find it a problem if ordinary players can't make ends meet, because they are outmarketed by 10 account 10 hour/day nolifers/botters.

I PLEX my account just fine and it certainly isn't from playing lots of hours per day. A 'normal' life owning player can PLEX easily once they have the player skills required. It just takes some knowledge and a bit of research. If bots are a problem then CCP need to go after the bots, not legislate player activities through mechanics.

when running missions what will generate fatigue? if its actual time spent shooting then it should be based on how often the guns are green and this should apply to everything doesn't matter what you are shooting. So that not only the no-lifer pve gets hit but also the low-lifer gate camper takes the hit.

But falcon stated it isn't trolling, so it must be true.

Propose we retopic this thread into what the PLAYERS in F&I consider trolling, so CCP can see why it was consistently reported for such.

I'd suggest you send a note to ISD or open a petition.

No, seriously.

This problem is a fabrication you have created, though for what purpose beyond pushing your agenda I do not know. The reason plex as a system works is because a sufficient number of players can afford them, meaning either bots are excessively prolific AND isk inflation is largely mythical since one can afford to PLEX without them or, much more likely, there are more than sufficient avenues in constant use to make sufficient isk to afford them.

If anything it seems your suggestion is aimed at those who fund plexing through legitimate PvE using "no-lifers" and bots as a smokescreen.

I currently PLEX my four accounts because I have decided to put the money I usually spend on my accounts into buying a motorcycle. Prior to that decision, I funded my accounts using my debit card. Once my motorcycle is paid off in October, I shall return to paying for my accounts with my debit card, instead of PLEXing them.

I consider myself a normal human player. I don't have a vast armada of mining barges grinding away to make me isk. Sure, I have 10 characters spread among my 4 accounts, but, other than some slight overlap to provide support in certain areas, each character has a drastically different role. I don't usually play for 10 hours a day. Recently I'm lucky to get 10 hours in a week among all my accounts.

At no time in my 10 years of playing Eve have I ever felt mandated to sell PLEX, or the GTCs that pre-dated PLEX. Sure, I've occasionally sold a few when I wanted something shiney and didn't want to wait for the isk. I usually ended up losing those in relatively short order, though, because I didn't train the support skills I would have if I had worked for the isk. Regardless of their eventual fate, the decision to not wait was entirely due to my own decision, not by some pressing need to "pay-to-win."

I totally agree, though it still isn't a reason for the madcap tollpost OP.

I've lost billions worth of assets, killed countless more. I've not sold a plex, indeed I'm stockpiling them when I have spare isk yet I still have stables of pimped ships, capitals, high grade pods etc etc. I don't play that hard, I just play smart.