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Curious about Gatecamps
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2015-05-07 18:28:10 UTC  |  Edited by: BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
If they are not utter morons they will have instalock + ranged web/scram (Arazu and Ashimmu are popular for these purposes).

Fit all the nanos you want, it won't matter.

If it's a half ass gate camp you can probably warp off or burn back to gate before they wake up.

Why do people assume that anyone not fielding t2/pirate faction cruisers shouldn't be in low/null? You also assume that the Azaru/Keres/Gamur/Lachesis/Interceptor is actually paying attention and positioned correctly. Even if it is, you can sometimes get off enough of a cycle to have the momentum to make it back to the gate when the scram lands. As for webs, yes having them is ideal, but this also means another ship perma tanking gate guns. I think we can all agree that if you jump a gate solo and there is 25+ people there with resbos and a long point ship you aren't going to survive. If the camp is 5 people, you probably have a shot depending on fits.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

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Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#42 - 2015-05-07 20:25:58 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Annemarie Menis wrote:
Hi,

I'm somewhat new to pvp. My partner and I have been trying lowsec roams to try and get into it. However, we've encountered some gatecamps in our travels and it seems that they're very hard or impossible to defend against or avoid while flying a standard combat ship.

I'm just curious to know how the community at large feels about gate camps, such as how fun they are for either party (relevant? no?) or how much interesting and engaging gameplay they add to EVE. In addition, I'm curious as to whether CCP plans to remove or modify gatecamps so that there's more interactive gameplay involved.

Keep in mind I'm not looking for ship fits, tips, or help avoiding/defending against gatecamps.

While you probably won't see this post, I'll try to reply seriously.

First, what standard fit combat ships are you flying? Most MWD fit cruisers can burn back to the gate moderately safely, as can most ships with oversized prop mods, though this is a little riskier.

Steps when encountering a gate camp:
1. Don't panic.
2. Hold gate cloak and look around for a bit. Observe where their tackle ships are located. Check for logistics or Ewar on field. If you decloak now, and attempt to warp, what are the chances you will be caught? If you burn away from the gate, align and attempt to kill their tackle, do you have a chance of warping off? Can you make it back to the gate?
3. Create a plan of action based on the previous questions.
4. Execute. Move to either A, B, or C below based on the plan chosen.
4a. Decloak and warp off. Good job, they didn't have enough sensor boosters, and you aligned too quickly. Or maybe their tackle was out of position. If you didn't survive, suck it up and get a new ship.
4b. Decloak, align to a celestial, and try to pick off any tackle in range. This usually depends on having a anti-support ship such as a nomen or caracal, and hoping that your enemies don't have a super tanked keres with logi support. Trying this in a lightly tanked frigate will not work against most camps.
4c. Crash the gate. Click on the gate. Hit appproach. Within 1 server tick (second) of your ship declocking, shift click and then normal click your microwarpdrive. If you do this right, your MWD will activate immediately after decloaking. Cross your fingers and pray. Hopefully you will reach the gate alive. Pay attention to who attacks you. Those people will have weapons timers. If you are in a frigate or destroyer, you might get away with jumping the gate immediately and attempting to warp. In slower ships you will want to split their forces by jumping after they attack, so some of their fleet can't follow. You can keep crashing the gate looking for an oppurtunity to execute either A or B above.

As for removing gate camps, well, screw that. Yes they are an annoying choke point, but they've been here for 12 years, and are an integral part of the game.


+1 bebop.

In light of this, I'll add something of value.

Read lesson 7 (timers) in this old tutorial I wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290227

It'll explain the basis of your options if you land in the camp on gate and have not jumped.

Bebop accurately describes your situation if you discover the camp after you jump.

The next lesson is building nano ships for gate camps. I explain nano ships either in this tutorial or the one before it (linked in the start of the tutorial).

Idea is this: make a battle cruiser/hac so fast that nothing that could catch it can withstand flying into its guns.

Then you always run away so that you can project damage perfectly behind you. This doesn't work well solo with missiles due to their weaknesses at speed.

It, as well as oversized AB ships, is viable and fun.


If they are not utter morons they will have instalock + ranged web/scram (Arazu and Ashimmu are popular for these purposes).

Fit all the nanos you want, it won't matter.
If it's a half ass gate camp you can probably warp off or burn back to gate before they wake up.


I have been mostly forums lately, but by your definition I've clearly not encountered many gate camps that aren't half assed.

Yeah, if they've got the right stuff you'll lose any fight. However, I think a gun fit t1 MWD nano bc or 100mn t3 remains valid( has to be gun fit if you are solo).

I'm not talking about using nano to burn back to the gate, the theory of using the fast BC is to burn away from your enemy so they have to fly up your tail taking full dps with small fast ships.

I can post some battle logs where this worked if you want. I

As for the oversized AB fits, have you ever tried to tackle a 100mn cruiser or 10mn frig? It's not easy.

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#43 - 2015-05-07 21:45:07 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Pretty sure you can't light a cyno in highsec. So you needn't worry. And you can just hide all your other CONCORD-protected trump cards on neutral alts. No one with a brain is impressed.

Firstly what the hell are you talking about?

Secondly you sound super upset about something, but I don't know what.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#44 - 2015-05-07 21:55:19 UTC
Mag's wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Gatecampers always seem to have urgent business in the nearest station when their scout sees something coming that could actually put up a fight.

They'd be pretty ******** if they just sat there waiting to die when they see a fight they can't take coming.


But honourable PvP!
But not real PvP, amiright?


Any PvP that is not my PvP is not honourable PvP. Any PvP that is not my PvP is not real PvP.

We all get set in our own worldviews as to what is right and good and worthy, sometimes we fail to accept that differing views are just as valid. I honestly cannot say that my PvP is honorable, but I'm honest. Who knows, maybe it is? I do honor any ransoms I offer, but they tend to be pretty rare. I know others who are honorable, but are dishonest. And then those who are neither, but are great fun to fly with.
*shrug*

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2015-05-07 21:59:53 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
If they are not utter morons they will have instalock + ranged web/scram (Arazu and Ashimmu are popular for these purposes).

Fit all the nanos you want, it won't matter.

If it's a half ass gate camp you can probably warp off or burn back to gate before they wake up.

Why do people assume that anyone not fielding t2/pirate faction cruisers shouldn't be in low/null? You also assume that the Azaru/Keres/Gamur/Lachesis/Interceptor is actually paying attention and positioned correctly. Even if it is, you can sometimes get off enough of a cycle to have the momentum to make it back to the gate when the scram lands. As for webs, yes having them is ideal, but this also means another ship perma tanking gate guns. I think we can all agree that if you jump a gate solo and there is 25+ people there with resbos and a long point ship you aren't going to survive. If the camp is 5 people, you probably have a shot depending on fits.


The beauty of 20k+ web and scram is that you don't actually need to be paying attention. As for your first sentence, I agree it's quite the opposite. You can do great pvp in cheap ships up to and including T1 cruisers, and a frigate is not going to be caught except by a very awake instalocker with high alpha. Gatecampers would love to see less of those and more loot pinata faction cruisers.

5-6 ships is plenty for an effective camp. Just try to fly through a place like Rancer where gatecamping is someone's full time job.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2015-05-07 22:05:27 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Pretty sure you can't light a cyno in highsec. So you needn't worry. And you can just hide all your other CONCORD-protected trump cards on neutral alts. No one with a brain is impressed.

Firstly what the hell are you talking about?

Secondly you sound super upset about something, but I don't know what.


Maybe your assertion that anyone criticizing things like OGB, constant risk averse blobbing and ignorance of the role SP plays in engagements is a habitual loser. Elitism from highsec mercs is laughable. What you do is not hard.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2015-05-07 22:54:58 UTC
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Annemarie Menis wrote:
Hi,

I'm somewhat new to pvp. My partner and I have been trying lowsec roams to try and get into it. However, we've encountered some gatecamps in our travels and it seems that they're very hard or impossible to defend against or avoid while flying a standard combat ship.

I'm just curious to know how the community at large feels about gate camps, such as how fun they are for either party (relevant? no?) or how much interesting and engaging gameplay they add to EVE. In addition, I'm curious as to whether CCP plans to remove or modify gatecamps so that there's more interactive gameplay involved.

Keep in mind I'm not looking for ship fits, tips, or help avoiding/defending against gatecamps.

While you probably won't see this post, I'll try to reply seriously.

First, what standard fit combat ships are you flying? Most MWD fit cruisers can burn back to the gate moderately safely, as can most ships with oversized prop mods, though this is a little riskier.

Steps when encountering a gate camp:
1. Don't panic.
2. Hold gate cloak and look around for a bit. Observe where their tackle ships are located. Check for logistics or Ewar on field. If you decloak now, and attempt to warp, what are the chances you will be caught? If you burn away from the gate, align and attempt to kill their tackle, do you have a chance of warping off? Can you make it back to the gate?
3. Create a plan of action based on the previous questions.
4. Execute. Move to either A, B, or C below based on the plan chosen.
4a. Decloak and warp off. Good job, they didn't have enough sensor boosters, and you aligned too quickly. Or maybe their tackle was out of position. If you didn't survive, suck it up and get a new ship.
4b. Decloak, align to a celestial, and try to pick off any tackle in range. This usually depends on having a anti-support ship such as a nomen or caracal, and hoping that your enemies don't have a super tanked keres with logi support. Trying this in a lightly tanked frigate will not work against most camps.
4c. Crash the gate. Click on the gate. Hit appproach. Within 1 server tick (second) of your ship declocking, shift click and then normal click your microwarpdrive. If you do this right, your MWD will activate immediately after decloaking. Cross your fingers and pray. Hopefully you will reach the gate alive. Pay attention to who attacks you. Those people will have weapons timers. If you are in a frigate or destroyer, you might get away with jumping the gate immediately and attempting to warp. In slower ships you will want to split their forces by jumping after they attack, so some of their fleet can't follow. You can keep crashing the gate looking for an oppurtunity to execute either A or B above.

As for removing gate camps, well, screw that. Yes they are an annoying choke point, but they've been here for 12 years, and are an integral part of the game.


+1 bebop.

In light of this, I'll add something of value.

Read lesson 7 (timers) in this old tutorial I wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290227

It'll explain the basis of your options if you land in the camp on gate and have not jumped.

Bebop accurately describes your situation if you discover the camp after you jump.

The next lesson is building nano ships for gate camps. I explain nano ships either in this tutorial or the one before it (linked in the start of the tutorial).

Idea is this: make a battle cruiser/hac so fast that nothing that could catch it can withstand flying into its guns.

Then you always run away so that you can project damage perfectly behind you. This doesn't work well solo with missiles due to their weaknesses at speed.

It, as well as oversized AB ships, is viable and fun.


If they are not utter morons they will have instalock + ranged web/scram (Arazu and Ashimmu are popular for these purposes).

Fit all the nanos you want, it won't matter.
If it's a half ass gate camp you can probably warp off or burn back to gate before they wake up.


I have been mostly forums lately, but by your definition I've clearly not encountered many gate camps that aren't half assed.

Yeah, if they've got the right stuff you'll lose any fight. However, I think a gun fit t1 MWD nano bc or 100mn t3 remains valid( has to be gun fit if you are solo).

I'm not talking about using nano to burn back to the gate, the theory of using the fast BC is to burn away from your enemy so they have to fly up your tail taking full dps with small fast ships.

I can post some battle logs where this worked if you want. I

As for the oversized AB fits, have you ever tried to tackle a 100mn cruiser or 10mn frig? It's not easy.



I would enjoy seeing examples of this.
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#48 - 2015-05-07 23:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Mobadder Thworst
100mn Tengu and nano came

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/engagement.php?id=13774265

Usually you just kill tackles, this is about the only example of a full party wipe I have.

I like playing nano ships.

Note: this isn't the entire fight... We killed a lot more than this. We were using a gate to split them so it broke up the battle logs. Check that date for kills in the Eve Pilot Help Center killboard on BC.
Mo
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#49 - 2015-05-08 01:59:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Maybe your assertion that anyone criticizing things like OGB, constant risk averse blobbing and ignorance of the role SP plays in engagements is a habitual loser. Elitism from highsec mercs is laughable. What you do is not hard.

Please explain more about how winners are bad for winning, and how complaints about people using completely legitimate game mechanics to win fights are in any way legitimate.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#50 - 2015-05-08 03:49:58 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Pretty sure you can't light a cyno in highsec. So you needn't worry. And you can just hide all your other CONCORD-protected trump cards on neutral alts. No one with a brain is impressed.

Firstly what the hell are you talking about?

Secondly you sound super upset about something, but I don't know what.

He is a butt hurt lowsec elitist who got touched by highsec station campers once and has never fully recovered from the experience as it was a huge blow to his ego

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

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'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2015-05-08 04:04:33 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
If they are not utter morons they will have instalock + ranged web/scram (Arazu and Ashimmu are popular for these purposes).

Fit all the nanos you want, it won't matter.

If it's a half ass gate camp you can probably warp off or burn back to gate before they wake up.

Why do people assume that anyone not fielding t2/pirate faction cruisers shouldn't be in low/null? You also assume that the Azaru/Keres/Gamur/Lachesis/Interceptor is actually paying attention and positioned correctly. Even if it is, you can sometimes get off enough of a cycle to have the momentum to make it back to the gate when the scram lands. As for webs, yes having them is ideal, but this also means another ship perma tanking gate guns. I think we can all agree that if you jump a gate solo and there is 25+ people there with resbos and a long point ship you aren't going to survive. If the camp is 5 people, you probably have a shot depending on fits.


The beauty of 20k+ web and scram is that you don't actually need to be paying attention. As for your first sentence, I agree it's quite the opposite. You can do great pvp in cheap ships up to and including T1 cruisers, and a frigate is not going to be caught except by a very awake instalocker with high alpha. Gatecampers would love to see less of those and more loot pinata faction cruisers.

5-6 ships is plenty for an effective camp. Just try to fly through a place like Rancer where gatecamping is someone's full time job.

I regularly jump through Tama while its camped. It can be quite fun, but then again I usually fly frigates.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2015-05-08 17:12:44 UTC
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
100mn Tengu and nano came

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/engagement.php?id=13774265

Usually you just kill tackles, this is about the only example of a full party wipe I have.

I like playing nano ships.

Note: this isn't the entire fight... We killed a lot more than this. We were using a gate to split them so it broke up the battle logs. Check that date for kills in the Eve Pilot Help Center killboard on BC.
Mo


I can't really tell what happened there. Battleclinic is useless since they decided it needed "fixing."

Also I believe nano canes are no longer viable as I'm told they were nerfed hard before I even started playing.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2015-05-08 17:20:38 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Maybe your assertion that anyone criticizing things like OGB, constant risk averse blobbing and ignorance of the role SP plays in engagements is a habitual loser. Elitism from highsec mercs is laughable. What you do is not hard.

Please explain more about how winners are bad for winning, and how complaints about people using completely legitimate game mechanics to win fights are in any way legitimate.


You make me laugh. You're full of yourself for "winning" at the laziest form of combat in the game.
Why don't you just go play Tetris?
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2015-05-08 17:23:45 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Pretty sure you can't light a cyno in highsec. So you needn't worry. And you can just hide all your other CONCORD-protected trump cards on neutral alts. No one with a brain is impressed.

Firstly what the hell are you talking about?

Secondly you sound super upset about something, but I don't know what.

He is a butt hurt lowsec elitist who got touched by highsec station campers once and has never fully recovered from the experience as it was a huge blow to his ego



I play in every region of space. My observation has been that the bittervet pvp'ers in highsec have egos disproportionate to their actual accomplishments.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#55 - 2015-05-08 17:25:08 UTC
I've got a full bag of popcorn here so if anyone needs some don't hesitate to ask.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#56 - 2015-05-08 18:55:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Mobadder Thworst
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
100mn Tengu and nano came

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/engagement.php?id=13774265

Usually you just kill tackles, this is about the only example of a full party wipe I have.

I like playing nano ships.

Note: this isn't the entire fight... We killed a lot more than this. We were using a gate to split them so it broke up the battle logs. Check that date for kills in the Eve Pilot Help Center killboard on BC.
Mo


I can't really tell what happened there. Battleclinic is useless since they decided it needed "fixing."

Also I believe nano canes are no longer viable as I'm told they were nerfed hard before I even started playing.


I've enjoyed some of your posts and have no issue with your playstyle. However, I find you very dismissive when I try to converse with you.

Yes, the cane was nerfed. Yes, the Tengu was nerfed. However, high speed maneuver tactics are just as valid today as they were then.

If you want to talk about gameplay, that's cool. If you've already realized there is nothing anyone else can teach you, then I'll start saving myself the effort of responding.

Mo
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2015-05-08 19:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Demerius Xenocratus
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
100mn Tengu and nano came

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/engagement.php?id=13774265

Usually you just kill tackles, this is about the only example of a full party wipe I have.

I like playing nano ships.

Note: this isn't the entire fight... We killed a lot more than this. We were using a gate to split them so it broke up the battle logs. Check that date for kills in the Eve Pilot Help Center killboard on BC.
Mo


I can't really tell what happened there. Battleclinic is useless since they decided it needed "fixing."

Also I believe nano canes are no longer viable as I'm told they were nerfed hard before I even started playing.


I've enjoyed some of your posts and have no issue with your playstyle. However, I find you very dismissive when I try to converse with you.

Yes, the cane was nerfed. Yes, the Tengu was nerfed. However, high speed maneuver tactics are just as valid today as they were then.

If you want to talk about gameplay, that's cool. If you've already realized there is nothing anyone else can teach you, then I'll start saving myself the effort of responding.



I would gladly go out and try to crash a gate camp with you. I'm currently limited to Gallente HACs/T3s and BC/BS with level 4 skills, not sure if any of those would be effective. Killing gate campers is immensely more satisfying than being one of them.

I tend to lean towards drone boats, 100mn Ishtar or hull tanked VNI are options.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2015-05-08 22:36:57 UTC
I've got killed by gatecamps and podded too. I've evaded them and fought them. I've gate camped myself, killed stuff, died (even to gate guns rofl), repped gate gunfire.

The day gatecamps disappeared I'll feel sad and probably cry.

Are gatecamps elite pvp? Ehm, no.

But then again
Mag's wrote:
Yea we all suck. Go figure. Big smile

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#59 - 2015-05-08 22:42:58 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
100mn Tengu and nano came

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/engagement.php?id=13774265

Usually you just kill tackles, this is about the only example of a full party wipe I have.

I like playing nano ships.

Note: this isn't the entire fight... We killed a lot more than this. We were using a gate to split them so it broke up the battle logs. Check that date for kills in the Eve Pilot Help Center killboard on BC.
Mo


I can't really tell what happened there. Battleclinic is useless since they decided it needed "fixing."

Also I believe nano canes are no longer viable as I'm told they were nerfed hard before I even started playing.


I've enjoyed some of your posts and have no issue with your playstyle. However, I find you very dismissive when I try to converse with you.

Yes, the cane was nerfed. Yes, the Tengu was nerfed. However, high speed maneuver tactics are just as valid today as they were then.

If you want to talk about gameplay, that's cool. If you've already realized there is nothing anyone else can teach you, then I'll start saving myself the effort of responding.



I would gladly go out and try to crash a gate camp with you. I'm currently limited to Gallente HACs/T3s and BC/BS with level 4 skills, not sure if any of those would be effective. Killing gate campers is immensely more satisfying than being one of them.

I tend to lean towards drone boats, 100mn Ishtar or hull tanked VNI are options.


If I ever manage to log in again, let's do it. If you look the day after that Battle log I posted earlier, I lost my nano cane. You could check build there if you want. I've lost quite a few nano canes, it was my favorite playstyle for a long time.

Missiles are bad for this solo, but if you are doing it in fleet it's great if someone has them. They're just too weak against small fast ships... But they're great for harassing fire. I don't like drones for this, but I've heard of people doing it.

Deimos actually does this quite well and I've used it this way( though with the advancement of rails, I bet you could do thorax or Brutix... Though I've never tried)

I left a Deimos fit for this somewhere in low sec, I'm sure we could meet up and go for a jaunt.

Keep in mind that I also still owe Tengu Grim an Ibis match in Umokka that I'm a month behind on delivering. Please be patient, fresh baby in the house.
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2015-05-08 23:02:54 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Pretty sure you can't light a cyno in highsec. So you needn't worry. And you can just hide all your other CONCORD-protected trump cards on neutral alts. No one with a brain is impressed.

Firstly what the hell are you talking about?

Secondly you sound super upset about something, but I don't know what.


Maybe your assertion that anyone criticizing things like OGB, constant risk averse blobbing and ignorance of the role SP plays in engagements is a habitual loser. Elitism from highsec mercs is laughable. What you do is not hard.

SP barely matters after ~10-15m depending on level of specialization.