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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Petition: Remove Slaves from the SCC Markets.
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Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#221 - 2015-05-04 09:25:20 UTC
I still think that this petition would be better addressed to the SCC. A lot less concerned parties (one, the SCC, versus millions all with their personal agendas), and also the other factions would have their word in the decision too, and knowing that their opinion is likely to abolish slave trading on the SCC intergalatic markets, the resolution of such a treaty would be a lot easier to achieve.
Arnulf Ogunkoya
Clan Ogunkoya
Electus Matari
#222 - 2015-05-04 10:06:01 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
On the one hand, this movement would reduce the amount of targets we need to hit to go about freeing our people and keep slaves out of the hands of jack wagons like Naupilius. On the other hand we wouldn't be able to free them directly from the market, those slave convoys are going to get higher security, and I don't really care for the thought of encouraging your misguided "divine right" to own people..... so is half a signature sufficient?


Free them directly from the market?

Once upon a time it I believe it was U'K policy, and also EM policy, not to pay money for slaves on the understanding that doing so merely encouraged the system that trades in them. Has this changed? If so I am saddened to hear it.

Still I like the idea of taking slaves off the market so that the crazier bits of the capsuleer community can't easily get them in order to torment them.

Regards, Arnulf Ogunkoya.
Cakzad Arcashiri
Arcashiri Family
#223 - 2015-05-04 11:56:44 UTC
In support of this petition, I will only trade slaves with the Families, or through personal dealings with known Holders, not the open market.

But wait, I was already doing that.....

"I give to you the destiny of Faith,

And you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens:

Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given."

- The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 22:13
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#224 - 2015-05-04 14:48:55 UTC
Arnulf Ogunkoya wrote:
Still I like the idea of taking slaves off the market so that the crazier bits of the capsuleer community can't easily get them in order to torment them.


Yeah. This is my main motivation. My secondary motivation for signing is that slavery is supposed to be prohibited outside of very special circumstances and only in Amarr space. It goes against the grain to paint a trade illegal and then provide an infrastructure framework for it.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#225 - 2015-05-04 16:58:45 UTC
Arnulf Ogunkoya wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
On the one hand, this movement would reduce the amount of targets we need to hit to go about freeing our people and keep slaves out of the hands of jack wagons like Naupilius. On the other hand we wouldn't be able to free them directly from the market, those slave convoys are going to get higher security, and I don't really care for the thought of encouraging your misguided "divine right" to own people..... so is half a signature sufficient?


Free them directly from the market?

Once upon a time it I believe it was U'K policy, and also EM policy, not to pay money for slaves on the understanding that doing so merely encouraged the system that trades in them. Has this changed? If so I am saddened to hear it.

Still I like the idea of taking slaves off the market so that the crazier bits of the capsuleer community can't easily get them in order to torment them.

I haven't always been part of the U'K, I abide by the policy of my alliance. It doesn't mean I disagree with the people who are acting in such a manner.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#226 - 2015-05-04 18:55:12 UTC
Yes, remove slaves from the SCC markets for good.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Jade Blackwind
#227 - 2015-05-04 20:03:51 UTC
Seriously, remove it. This is disgusting to say the least.
cimqe nyeeu
camdy and Co. inc.
#228 - 2015-05-04 21:03:52 UTC
not signed

i believe everyone has the right to have a slave not just the elite few
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#229 - 2015-05-04 22:18:40 UTC
U'tah Arareb wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh
what part of


Quote:
And to those foreigners who will try to interject here and call for abolition: Don't. If you value the life and health of slaves, don't derail this thread. You would only be weakening this proposal and hurting the very people you want to protect.


did you not understand?

Everything between "And" and "protect". We've all know this isn't about protecting the slaves, but returning the Empire back to it's roots. I'm half expecting a call for another reclaiming. You know, just to remind people what the Amarr empire is all about. Destroying cultures and whatnot.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Max Singularity
House Singularity
Sixth Empire
#230 - 2015-05-06 20:44:53 UTC

Congratulations on this message making an official The Scope banner feed!!

May they all be free.
May we all be free.

Harbinger of Faith His Holiness Maximilian Singularity VI, Pope of New Eden

First Champion House Kador (defeated) - #MagnateGate

Viceroy Interview & Apostle In Amarr

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#231 - 2015-05-06 21:02:18 UTC
Max Singularity wrote:

Congratulations on this message making an official The Scope banner feed!!

May they all be free.
May we all be free.



This measure is not about abolition. It is only about upholding traditional restrictions on who is permitted to own slaves: Holders and Holders alone.

If you are looking to end slavery, then this is not the place for it.
Max Singularity
House Singularity
Sixth Empire
#232 - 2015-05-06 23:46:35 UTC
Induced unintended consequences in chaotic systems of purpose have many outcomes. The snowball has started rolling down the hill. You did this.

Harbinger of Faith His Holiness Maximilian Singularity VI, Pope of New Eden

First Champion House Kador (defeated) - #MagnateGate

Viceroy Interview & Apostle In Amarr

Soren Tyrhanos
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#233 - 2015-05-07 04:04:32 UTC
Max Singularity wrote:
Induced unintended consequences in chaotic systems of purpose have many outcomes. The snowball has started rolling down the hill. You did this.


What she and the other proponents of this thread have done is bring to light an issue that is a result of a degradation of traditional values that negatively impacts the lives of the slaves whom our Holder's should be cultivating as potential converts to the Faith.

Freeing these slaves without them having achieved the fundamental purpose of their servitude benefits no one foremost, amongst the concerned parties, the slaves themselves. The Republic can barely economically sustain their own people let alone billions of slaves, the Federation wouldn't want to, and even the Caldari I am sure would struggle under their weight.
Plan Neun
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#234 - 2015-05-07 13:34:49 UTC
Not signed

This peace of paper is worth nothing. It will only create an even bigger black market and illegal flow of misery for those envolved.
The pirate cartels will ofcourse welcome this.

This is a silly as banning milk, yeay to the gallentes for that!


" Invader's blood marches through my veins like giant radioactive rubber pants! "
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#235 - 2015-05-08 00:56:30 UTC
Soren Tyrhanos wrote:
Max Singularity wrote:
Induced unintended consequences in chaotic systems of purpose have many outcomes. The snowball has started rolling down the hill. You did this.


What she and the other proponents of this thread have done is bring to light an issue that is a result of a degradation of traditional values that negatively impacts the lives of the slaves whom our Holder's should be cultivating as potential converts to the Faith.

Freeing these slaves without them having achieved the fundamental purpose of their servitude benefits no one foremost, amongst the concerned parties, the slaves themselves. The Republic can barely economically sustain their own people let alone billions of slaves, the Federation wouldn't want to, and even the Caldari I am sure would struggle under their weight.

The Caldari would decline the opportunity to struggle under their weight. They're not OUR slaves, after all and doesn't freedom suggest some degree of responsibility for their own fate? Anything else and they would just be changing masters and collars...

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Soren Tyrhanos
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#236 - 2015-05-08 04:00:25 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Soren Tyrhanos wrote:
Max Singularity wrote:
Induced unintended consequences in chaotic systems of purpose have many outcomes. The snowball has started rolling down the hill. You did this.


What she and the other proponents of this thread have done is bring to light an issue that is a result of a degradation of traditional values that negatively impacts the lives of the slaves whom our Holder's should be cultivating as potential converts to the Faith.

Freeing these slaves without them having achieved the fundamental purpose of their servitude benefits no one foremost, amongst the concerned parties, the slaves themselves. The Republic can barely economically sustain their own people let alone billions of slaves, the Federation wouldn't want to, and even the Caldari I am sure would struggle under their weight.

The Caldari would decline the opportunity to struggle under their weight. They're not OUR slaves, after all and doesn't freedom suggest some degree of responsibility for their own fate? Anything else and they would just be changing masters and collars...


I care not how your people would attempt to bear their weight only point that that who beyond the Amarr are willing AND capable enough to do so?
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#237 - 2015-05-08 06:38:05 UTC
Soren Tyrhanos wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Soren Tyrhanos wrote:
Max Singularity wrote:
Induced unintended consequences in chaotic systems of purpose have many outcomes. The snowball has started rolling down the hill. You did this.


What she and the other proponents of this thread have done is bring to light an issue that is a result of a degradation of traditional values that negatively impacts the lives of the slaves whom our Holder's should be cultivating as potential converts to the Faith.

Freeing these slaves without them having achieved the fundamental purpose of their servitude benefits no one foremost, amongst the concerned parties, the slaves themselves. The Republic can barely economically sustain their own people let alone billions of slaves, the Federation wouldn't want to, and even the Caldari I am sure would struggle under their weight.

The Caldari would decline the opportunity to struggle under their weight. They're not OUR slaves, after all and doesn't freedom suggest some degree of responsibility for their own fate? Anything else and they would just be changing masters and collars...


I care not how your people would attempt to bear their weight only point that that who beyond the Amarr are willing AND capable enough to do so?

Does it matter? The truth is that only those with a plan to support them after release have the moral mandate to demand that release. The Federation could probably manage to find the resources, but I'm certain they wouldn't enjoy what it would do to their standard of living. Our Ushra friends claim that they would make the Empire fund that support as reparations, but they claim this whilst having no real plan for gaining the political or military capital to enforce such a resolution. They also ignore the fact that the release of slaves itself would break the Empire in the short term and they would have no ability to make reparations whilst simultaneously rebuilding their economy.

In any case, this discussion is about removing slaves as a tradeable commodity on the SCC market and not about abolition. Frankly, I find the practice needlessly demeaning and completely counter to Heiian - but it's not my practice and it isn't my place to tell you how to run your society.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Jvpiter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#238 - 2015-05-08 06:53:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jvpiter
I get confused about arbitrary terms and labels.


If I find myself out in space, I'm on a ship littered with humans whose compensation is a pittance. As soon as they step aboard my ship, their life and death is completely at my whim. I can direct every action they take at my helm and ship stations. I dictate the food they eat, or if they eat at all. I can work them to death if I so choose. I can legally self destruct my vessel and kill the entire crew without incurring a scar, or facing a single fine or criminal charge.


My slaves carry me, their legally entitled ship master, through Amarr space. Explain to me again what this petition is about, then.

Call me Joe.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#239 - 2015-05-08 07:17:23 UTC
Jvpiter wrote:
Explain to me again what this petition is about, then.


To keep them away from people like you.
Alizebeth Amalath
Doomheim
#240 - 2015-05-08 15:11:38 UTC
Every time I think that I should respond to something, I see that Samira has beaten me to it and said pretty much what I would have.