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Skill Discussions

 
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Looking for advice on skill planing.
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Robby Kasparic
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2015-05-01 18:36:44 UTC
First things first, EVEBoard.

Little bit of background on my initial and current thoughts on my skills:
--When I started playing, I wanted to get into mining. Most of my early skills focused on that. I feel now that what I did train gives me a "good enough" fallback if a mission ship gets exploded and I need to make some ISK.
--On returning, my buddies were doing missions, so I started working to that. I had previously trained into a Drake so have been using that. It works fine for L2s, but the fit's anemic DPS is just killing me with boredom in L3s. It takes me a long time to kill stuff, but I have never seen my shields drop below 75%.
--With that in mind, I really need to move onto something better then the Drake for doing L3s solo and tagging along on L4s with buddies. Ideal would be for this to happen sooner rather then later. I can currently fly up to Caldari Battlecruisers but do not have any skills worth speaking of in Hybrids so I am limited to the missile boats.
--I currently can be in a Gila or Raven that should be able to handle L3s and tag along in L4s within ~10 days.
--Currently I have been working on getting my Drone skills up a bit to help add to my DPS.

My goals are:
--I want to be able to get into ships that can do L4s solo. Having the ship(s) in question fit in with the rest of my goals is more important the having the prefect ship (eg, dropping everything and training for a something I have no skills in the direction of (Matriarch) as opposed to something I have a basis for (Rattlesnake)).
--I have really liked Cruiser gameplay in the past, so getting into the Tech2 (and maybe Tech3 down the road) cruisers is something I want.
--I want to not be a total liability in PvP in terms of ships I can fly and skills, but my focus is on PvE.

So my questions follow:
1) Are my investments into Missiles and Shields far enough along that it makes more sense to flesh them out rather then move onto a different system?
2) What sort of general core skills for any combat ship am I deficient/lacking in?
3) Am I better off keeping my skill investments focused on cruiser sized modulus since that is what I want to get into Tech2 in or is the diversion into Battleship specific stuff going to be relatively small as to be worth it?
4) How best to use my remaps in all of this?

Thanks for the help.
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#2 - 2015-05-02 00:42:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Caldari 5
Before I dive into your skills, lets first just say, that in larger gang/blob PvP that they don't like missiles because of the lack of instant DPS, so cross training into Hybrids is probably a good idea.

Next the Drake is a great ship in PvE, if you are finding the tank high and the DPS low you can change you fit around to do so.
Going from Heavy tank to Heavy DPS, or some blend in-between

Consider the 2 below very different setups, what are you currently flying? (also you can use Meta/Faction variants to help with fitting/skills)
[Drake, Heavy Tank]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Warrior II x5

[Drake, Heavy DPS]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Parallel Weapon Navigation Transmitter
Parallel Weapon Navigation Transmitter

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I

Warrior II x5



I'll be adding edits as I go down through your Character on Eveboard:

Noticed that you are missing Guided Missile Precision from your missile skills, this will help allot when shooting smaller stuff with larger missiles(especially Cruise/Torps when you start using a Raven for example)

Signature Focusing - to help with your target painting which will help you apply damage to small targets
Gravametric Sensor Compensation - to help stop you getting jammed as much in Caldari ships
Damage Type Shield Compensation - only needed for passive shield resistance amps, but some fits need it, especially the EM one.

Advanced Weapon Upgrades - noticed that you already had Weapon Upgrades that improve fitting for CPU, AWU does the same for PG

Rigging skills, good to get them all to 2 or 3, some also double as fitting skills like Missile Rigging as most of the Missile Rigs cause additional CPU usage and such would be advantageous to take higher.
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#3 - 2015-05-02 01:03:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Caldari 5
Double Post oops
Robby Kasparic
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2015-05-02 04:34:05 UTC
Thanks for the response. The Drake fit I am using now is below. Drone fit is currently variable, so not included. Mix of Tech1 Hornets and Hobgobs.

[Drake, Indomitable]

6x XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay

2x EM Ward Amplifier II
2x Large Shield Extender II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II

4x Shield Power Relay II

3x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

In EVEHQ I have been able to get so much more out of a Raven in both DPS and Tank then the Drake that I think moving up is the better choice. Will fiddle with your Drake fits, thank you for providing them. For reference, here is the Raven fit I am seriously considering.

[Raven, Vanguard]

6x 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I (Scourge Cruise Missile)
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Micro Jump Drive
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Large Shield Booster II
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines

3x Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II

Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

5x Federation Navy Hammerhead
5x Federation Navy Hobgoblin


Couple questions/comments on your notes.

--GMP sounds good. While its training up is a Sniper fit Raven going to be good enough with Drones as a Anti-Frigate defense in L3/4s?
--Sig Focus, Grav Sensor, and the Shield comps sound good. Any preference on train order?
--Regarding AWU, I have yet to run into a fit that is Power Grid limited rather then CPU. Is there a missile fit that runs into power grid limitations or is that more for Rail boats?
--For rigging I was planing on getting the Missile and Shield ones up to 4 to unlock the Tech 2 rigs. The others I figured can wait.

For a general train, is using my remaps to get a bunch of the INT/MEM focused skills done faster followed py PER/WIL skills a smart idea or is there another way you would optimize training?
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#5 - 2015-05-02 05:35:43 UTC
Robby Kasparic wrote:
Thanks for the response. The Drake fit I am using now is below. Drone fit is currently variable, so not included. Mix of Tech1 Hornets and Hobgobs.

In EVEHQ I have been able to get so much more out of a Raven in both DPS and Tank then the Drake that I think moving up is the better choice. Will fiddle with your Drake fits, thank you for providing them. For reference, here is the Raven fit I am seriously considering.

Couple questions/comments on your notes.

--GMP sounds good. While its training up is a Sniper fit Raven going to be good enough with Drones as a Anti-Frigate defense in L3/4s?
--Sig Focus, Grav Sensor, and the Shield comps sound good. Any preference on train order?
--Regarding AWU, I have yet to run into a fit that is Power Grid limited rather then CPU. Is there a missile fit that runs into power grid limitations or is that more for Rail boats?
--For rigging I was planing on getting the Missile and Shield ones up to 4 to unlock the Tech 2 rigs. The others I figured can wait.

For a general train, is using my remaps to get a bunch of the INT/MEM focused skills done faster followed py PER/WIL skills a smart idea or is there another way you would optimize training?

Yer, which drones you use change lots, depending on mission/use-case.

Raven will have a larger Paper DPS than the Drake, but you may find that you will have better applied DPS with the Drake on small targets, Frigs/Desties/etc Just compare the Sig radius of what you are shooting compared to the Explosion radius of your missiles, Typical Frig is ~40m sig and the explosion radius for your Heavy missiles is ~105, cruise missiles are ~180 on your fit. So the larger you can make your Enemy(target painters) or the smaller the missiles you have the more likely you are to apply Damage to them.

Most drake fit won't have an issue with tank in L3's, as you said in your OP, your shields aren't even getting down past 75%, this is an indication that you are over-tanked, Peak re-charge of a passive shield fit is ~25-30% if' you're not getting down to at least 50% you are over tanked for what you are doing.

Now the sniper raven, it is best to shoot at the frigs whilst their MWD is on whilst they are burning toward you, their sig blooms upto about 200m, drones should only be needed as a last resort.

Order of training for those 3 should be Grav Sensor, Shield Comps and then Sig Focus(you need Target Painting to 4 before you can do this anyways.) and take them all too 3, it should be a fairly quick train.

Yes AWU is more of a Turret one, however if you are setting up a heavy tanked ship it can be an issue there too, you already have the pre-req, so taking AWU to 2 or 3 will be handy in the longer run.

I've never really looked into re-maps, they were only introduced late in my Character life, and my training is no longer as focused as it once was, I'm sure someone will pop in with information on that one.
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#6 - 2015-05-04 19:37:45 UTC
You'll probably get much better answer than this one, but fwiw, the Rattlesnake is frequently considered the best L4 boat currently because of the very high DPS possible with missiles + drones. The Gila is also highly valued currently so it seems you are already on a good track.

The Dominix is a very good L4 boat on the way to a Rattlesnake and is one of the easiest to manage with low SP when fitted with a microwarp jump drive.

You want Sentry drones for many fits. Good news is that faction drones work as well as T2 drones with quicker skill training.

Moving all your attributes to Int=Per is considered a good map for the first year of training when you will be bouncing between a lot of skills.

There are plenty of existing threads with fits on rattlesnake, gila, domi in the Ships subforum.
Robby Kasparic
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2015-05-04 22:16:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Robby Kasparic
Thanks for the response. I did get into a Raven over the weekend, waiting from some stuff to train up to use of Tech2 before I take it out. Long term I am thinking the Gurtias ships are going to be some of the better stuff I get into, but I also think being able to fly Gallente for armor tank (per corp-mates that would be the primary logi in Fleet ops, so my current shield tanks would be less then ideal) is good. My general plan is shaping up as follows.

--Respec for INT/MEM
--Train Shield, Armor, and other general competency skills (eg. Capacitor Management, Rigging)
--Respec for PER/WIL
--Focus Missiles, Hybrids (+general gunnery), and ships.
--Respec for MEM/PER
--Focus Drones

Reasoning behind this order is that the INT/MEM skills are going to help me stay alive longer and fit ships in a more ideal way. The focus then turns to pumping out damage, as well as unlocking more ships (Gallente and Caldari Hybrid boats). Drones come last because I feel outside of the specialized hulls (Domi, Gila etc) they don't have as direct an impact as the other two categories. I have the remaps to burn so I can really focus these categories down. Is there an alternative plan you would recommend?


EDIT: Second thought regarding your comment of INT=PER remap. That would allow me to focus different parts of the above plan at different times. Somewhat like this, but with the flexibility to move things around as needed.

--General competency (eg. Capacitor Management)
--Caldari (Missiles & Shields)
--Drones
--Gallente (Hybrids & Armor)

Is that added time from not having the secondary stat respec worth the additional flexibility?
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#8 - 2015-05-05 14:41:22 UTC
Robby Kasparic wrote:
Is that added time from not having the secondary stat respec worth the additional flexibility?
Best thing to do is create your training plan in EveMon. It has an option to optimize attributes/implants so you'll know exactly what the trade-off is.

Unless you have the patience to train a lot of optimal skills at once in your first plan, you may find that the flexibility to change your plan as needed is worth it.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#9 - 2015-05-06 17:25:23 UTC
Robby Kasparic wrote:
My general plan is shaping up as follows.

--Respec for INT/MEM
--Train Shield, Armor, and other general competency skills (eg. Capacitor Management, Rigging)
--Respec for PER/WIL
--Focus Missiles, Hybrids (+general gunnery), and ships.
--Respec for MEM/PER
--Focus Drones

Or just spec INT > (PER = MEM) and never worry about it again. [Well, for at least 5 years, averaging around 2400 SP/hour]
Robby Kasparic
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2015-05-06 21:38:15 UTC
Thanks for that. Will play with it.