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[June] [Updated] Module Tiericide - Afterburners & Microwarpdrives

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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#161 - 2015-05-04 18:51:55 UTC
Glad to see the flavour names back :)

But as mentioned, you could have the 'enduring' before 'the cold gas'.

And i also feel the Meta 0 items are being left as too poor

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
John Eod
Merlins Online
#162 - 2015-05-04 19:11:48 UTC  |  Edited by: John Eod
I believe it has been mentioned already but some of the deadspace afterburners (Gistii / Gistum / Gist) would become sort of useless as their current advantage over their coreli/corelum/core counterparts is removed.

I would suggest either keeping the latter with their current speed bonus, or increasing the former's a bit so they continue being faster than the Gist line (which focuses on better activation cost).

Edit: A poster below points out that a similar thing happens to the faction afterburners (Fed navy /shadow serpentis have worse activation but same speed as RF /Domination).
Hiram Alexander
State Reprisal
#163 - 2015-05-04 19:42:11 UTC
Great to see the return of the old names, and I really like the 5MN/50/500 convention.

Not seeing a lot there to make Indies cheer, though... Meta 0 still needs a 'boost'.
Terra Chrall
Doomheim
#164 - 2015-05-04 19:44:26 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Afterburner Raw Stats

  • Federation Navy 1MN Afterburner [Meta Level 8 (+1); Powergrid 10; CPU 17; Activation 15 (-5); Velocity Bonus 145 (+4)%; Overload Bonus 50%]
  • Shadow Serpentis 1MN Afterburner [Meta Level 8 (+1); Powergrid 10; CPU 17; Activation 15 (-5); Velocity Bonus 145 (+4)%; Overload Bonus 50%]
  • Republic Fleet 1MN Afterburner [Meta Level 8; Powergrid 11; CPU 15; Activation 20 (+5); Velocity Bonus 145 (+1)%; Overload Bonus 50%]
  • Domination 1MN Afterburner [Meta Level 8; Powergrid 11; CPU 15; Activation 20 (+5); Velocity Bonus 145 (+1)%; Overload Bonus 50%]



As of right now anyone owning a Domination or Republic Fleet 1MN AB are getting +5 (33%) cap use for +1 speed and that is a pretty crappy deal. SO either keep the cap use the same or change the speed bonuses given. I see you want to make the speed bonus the same across meta tier but it is the only other setting that really can set these apart unless you make the fittings lower.

I would rather it look more like:

  • Federation Navy 1MN Afterburner [Meta Level 7; Powergrid 10; CPU 17; Activation 15 (-5); Velocity Bonus 145 (+4)%; Overload Bonus 50%]
  • Shadow Serpentis 1MN Afterburner [Meta 7); Powergrid 10; CPU 17; Activation 15 (-5); Velocity Bonus 145 (+4)%; Overload Bonus 50%]
  • Republic Fleet 1MN Afterburner [Meta Level 8; Powergrid 11; CPU 15; Activation 20 (+5); Velocity Bonus 150(+6)%; Overload Bonus 50%]
  • Domination 1MN Afterburner [Meta Level 8; Powergrid 11; CPU 15; Activation 20 (+5); Velocity Bonus 150(+6)%; Overload Bonus 50%]
  • Coreli C-Type 1MN Afterburner [Meta Level 10 (-1); Powergrid 10; CPU 17; Activation 15; Velocity Bonus 150%; Overload Bonus 50%]
  • Gistii C-Type 1MN Afterburner [Meta Level 10 (-1); Powergrid 11(-2); CPU 15; Activation 17 (-3); Velocity Bonus 150 (-3)%; Overload Bonus 50%]


Where the C-type is just better in activation for the speed.


It seems you are trying too hard to make things even 5's or 10's like with activation and with speed but are not worried about it with PG and CPU. You might want to rethink that stance so that you can tweak the numbers on these modules where they are different enough in more meaningful ways.. If keeping the speed as the common factor then adjust the Activation and fitting a bit more but not in jumps of 5. Then scale these with the 10/50/100/500 modules as well.
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#165 - 2015-05-04 19:51:15 UTC
its amazing how many people are reading ccp's figures wrong.


With a Gistii A-Type 1/5MN Microwarpdrive fit Garmur (faction, snakes, zor's custom, and max fleet bonuses) in KSpace I'm getting


Before
8606 m/s

After
8883 m/s

Difference a whopping 277m/s on a dead space fitted frigate

Overheated

Before
12462 m/s

After
12514 m/s

Diffrence is 52m/s

These ships can already do these speeds... so whats the big outcry?
Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#166 - 2015-05-04 19:51:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Hengle Teron
I still think the descriptive part of name is unnecessary (ex. restrained).

Still won't remember which descriptive name means what exactly and therefore will have to still look up the stats, just as if it wasn't there.

e: oh and all 'storyline' items are still too expensive to build to be worth the minimal improvement on a t2 module. (for some module it's even cheaper to get the best dedspace module)
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#167 - 2015-05-04 19:53:56 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
its amazing how many people are reading ccp's figures wrong.


With a Gistii A-Type 1/5MN Microwarpdrive fit Garmur (faction, snakes, zor's custom, and max fleet bonuses) in KSpace I'm getting


Before
8606 m/s

After
8883 m/s

Difference a whopping 277m/s on a dead space fitted frigate

Overheated

Before
12462 m/s

After
12514 m/s

Diffrence is 52m/s

These ships can already do these speeds... so whats the big outcry?


because it's broken and they aren't fixing it, and I'll be here crying about it at every opportunity
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Shadow Cartel
#168 - 2015-05-04 20:18:31 UTC
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Charlie Firpol wrote:
A friend of mine that regulary flies boosted, snaked factionfit Garmurs just did the numbers. His Garmur will be 1440m/s faster after this, without heat.

Hrm, Can I see you friends math?

With a Gistii A-Type 1/5MN Microwarpdrive fit Garmur (faction, snakes, zor's custom, and max fleet bonuses) in KSpace I'm getting -
  • 8606 m/s Prepatch > 8883 m/s Postpatch
  • 12462 m/s Prepatch > 12514 m/s Postpatch Overloaded


Rekt.

That said, now that you've differentiated MWDs, I proposed to reduce all MWD base speed values by 50, so A-Types get 468%, Tech 2 460% and so forth.

Things are getting a little too Need For Speedy II.


This man needs to be heard!
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#169 - 2015-05-04 20:41:42 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
To keep things simple I am only commenting regarding the faction afterburners.

Whilst the capacitor reduction on federation navy after burners is definately appreciated, republic fleet are getting a very poor deal here. They were chosen by many for their capacitor use, and whilst things change, and that is perfectly fine, we shouldn't get stuck in a rut, they really now have absolutely nothing going for them. In exchange for the loss of their defining feature, give them something worthwhile, a very low cpu need, or a really significant speed boost! The tiny cpu difference they currently are being given is not enough to define them.

Thank you.
Overall, this is much better than was feared, clearly much thought has been put into propulsion modules.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#170 - 2015-05-04 20:55:37 UTC
Thanks for adding the flavour back into the names. But why speed creep? Why not nerf lower metas and leave top speed alone? MWD overheat effect already results in some broken speeds.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Arla Sarain
#171 - 2015-05-04 20:57:38 UTC
Remove the arbitrary code nomenclature in the name.

Compact Afterburner
Enduring Microwarp Drive.

None of the YMCA70 mumbo jumob.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#172 - 2015-05-04 21:12:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Vic Jefferson
Speed creep literally makes the game miserable and ship choices very stale. It is particularly frustrating for newer players who are supposed to be learning to tackle things to have cruisers be faster than their overheating frigates, while at the same time having near perfect damage application. I'm all for newbies dying, a lot, but its gotten to the point where things like the Orthrus are just too over the top. The same can be said of many hulls right now. Brawling is dead, and as a result, people don't get as many fights as they used to - everyone just speeds away the moment a bigger gang comes a long catching things has become excessively difficult.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Alexis Nightwish
#173 - 2015-05-04 21:17:23 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:

We are going to be watching how the small speed buff affects TQ. We've done a bunch of internal testing and don't expect it to have a large impact on the meta. That said, give us your feedback! There are 4 weeks till release.
Yeah but the current meta, (as it relates to speed), sucks!

Given that, I like the increase on speed for Afterburners, but I do NOT like the increase on speed for MWDs. EVE is already "Go MWD or go home." If anything, this rework should be used to reduce the speed bonus of MWDs. T1 should be +400%, Officer should be +500%, and everything else in the middle.

Speaking of officer mods, why are they in the same league as deadspace? Shouldn't they be in a class of their own? +10% OH bonus still doesn't justify their pricetag, and they will continue being blingpoop.

I don't care for the '5xMN' nomanclature. Not because it'll make things harder to look up (it will, but that's not the reason). I don't like it because it makes it easy to remove 'AB' and 'MWD' from discussion. There's a very big difference between these types of modules, and a new player would likely not see any difference other than 'One goes faster but has higher fitting', thus completely missing the capacitor penalty and signature bloom aspects. Also, it used to be easy to say "If your ship uses small rigs, use a 1MN prop mod." A small increase in complexity, but the game already has a deadly learning curve for newbros. Also I can't wait to explain that 5MN is not only for destroyers. :/

Please put format for names consistantly like faction/deadspace/officer: [flavortext] [tiericide name] [xMN] [AB/MWD]. It's the most easily searched format. I don't know why T1/meta/T2 are in a different (worse) format. So "1MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner" should be "Y-S8 Compact 1MN Afterburner"

The sig bloom bonus of higher meta MWDs still doesn't mean anything for cruiser and BS sized modules. Consider lowering the bloom on these so that at the very least cruisers aren't above 400m (BS gun sig) and BS aren't above 2000m (dread gun sig).

I am disappointed that you did not take this opportunity to give the Faction prop mods a little something special, or even distinguish between them. For example Serpentis and Fed Navy are exact carbon copies of each other. Couldn't you at least maybe give the pirate prop mods a slightly reduced mass penalty? Or the Navy/Fleet ones a small overheat bonus?

I'd have to see the actual numbers, but T2MWDs still look like they won't be used due to the same reason as before: consume more cap than meta. I know they're a bit faster now, but 5% won't be enough to justify the capacitor usage.

Lastly, I love the return of flavor text. Ignore the haters! :)

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#174 - 2015-05-04 21:18:09 UTC
13km/s ships? And they need a buff? What is going on over there? Server tick mechanics make these sort of speeds miserable to deal with. Please claw back on speed rather than buff it.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
#175 - 2015-05-04 21:25:40 UTC
So much crying over the 1/10/100 & 5/50/500 change. I am glad they are distinguishing them now.

I will say the meta name changes are a bit ridiculous and even more confusing.
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#176 - 2015-05-04 21:27:12 UTC
Altrue wrote:
5,50,500, good change.

The whole "name flavor" stuff, I still don't get it.

Quote:
Goals of Module Teiracide:
Reduce unnecessary complexity


LOL.

Enduring mwd, restrained mwd, that's enough of a name.
No need to add the whole monopropellant YS-5 bull****.

Same thing for the other names you butchered: Missile launchers, power diags, reactor control units, etc... How can you claim its reducing complexity when those names take 5 seconds to pronounce... That's beyond my understanding.

Its not because its old school that its any good.

Except people like me and others specifically asked for more lore-ish names. Because "Enduring MWD" and "Restrained MWD" sounds extremely bland and stupid for such a lore dedicated game. You're playing Eve, and you're complaining about complexity? Ignore it then. But don't sacrifice the feel of the game for simplicity's sake.

Extending your logic, we should just call all the ships "Gallente logi cruiser" or "Caldari Ewar cruiser".
Fonton
Robot Head
#177 - 2015-05-04 21:41:07 UTC
Names - Nice! But take attention on format. Maybe [model] [tier name] [mn class] [module] will be easier for search and will be agreed with deadspace name system.
MWD waits for speed nerf neither of buff. Go for 350% - 400%.
t1 capital prop mods?
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#178 - 2015-05-04 21:50:55 UTC
Suitonia wrote:
I think speed creep is unhealthy for the game and hope you're keeping an eye on this.

+1. We don't need faster ships. We. don't. need. faster. ships.
Stridsflygplan
Deliverance.
Arrival.
#179 - 2015-05-04 22:05:27 UTC
Please dont touch the 500% speed bonus on the MWDs. speed creep is bad, use the other stats to balance the items.

The balance that the AB/MWD has on TQ right now is very good and only need some minor tweaks. Like making the T2 MWD viable.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#180 - 2015-05-04 22:06:59 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Quote:
With a Gistii A-Type 1/5MN Microwarpdrive fit Garmur (faction, snakes, zor's custom, and max fleet bonuses) in KSpace I'm getting -
  • 8606 m/s Prepatch > 8883 m/s Postpatch
  • 12462 m/s Prepatch > 12514 m/s Postpatch Overloaded



and you don't see a problem here??????????????????????????????

I was thinking this same thing lol.

Person A >It's 1440 m/s faster.

Person B >No, no. Top speed only goes from 12 (thousand) 462 m/s to 12 (THOUsand) 514 m/s. An,all together, underwhelming increase of merely 52 m/s. Clearly math is hard.


It's like debating the color and intensity of the flames in a burning building....while standing in said burning building.

Top Kek

I'm right behind you