EVE General Discussion

Of course better PvE content would be better, but that is not what this game is about. When looking at developing it, you quickly run into several problems. First, solo grinding of missions is the opposite of the vision of Eve, articulated by CCP Seagull as a player-driven universe where players can make their own stories. I am sure missions can be made more social which would be a good thing, but that is not the type of new content you seem to be asking for.

Second, more related to this thread is the danger that would do to the economy. If everyone is grinding missions in safety in highsec, nothing ever gets blown up. You have run-away inflation and no reason for anyone to risk anything. There is a reason CCP put the most "end game" PvE content outside of highsec. It is so that players would actually have to take a risk and expose themselves to attack if they want to pursue it, providing content for other players and increasing the rate of destruction.

I guess PvE content could be made more risky, so that players actually lose ships on a regular basis to balance the PvE rewards flooding into the economy, but that would be incredibly difficult to tune and these same risk-averse players who are too cautious to ever leave highsec will not run it. They play Eve as a traditional, linear MMO and so they want victory and the maximum ISK/hour at the end of the day. They do not actually want the challenge of more life-like AI, or random missions because that challenge comes with the risk of loss and they do not like losing ships. They will just stay in the traditional missions, grinding away at saving the Damsel for the 100th time, just to watch their ISK counter go up.

If people want to grind missions for no greater reason, they can, just like they can shoot rocks forever just to watch some number go up and never do anything else. But CCPs numbers show that these people do not stay nearly as long with the game nor is that what gets people excited to join the game in the first place. Therefore, Eve should not be balanced around (or developed for) these outlier players, and in fact more mechanisms should be in place to actively discourage new players away from these so-called "careers". Eve is designed around PvP conflict and player interaction, and the PvE has always just been something to fight over and gate resource entry into the universe.

If you want to make PvE so that it consumes more minerals, just make it more risky in highsec. Remove gates so that gankers can warp in more easily or have it so that Drifters randomly drop in from time-to-time and Doomsday your battleship (or your Skiff) if you are not paying attention. If you just do it with consumables, it is essentially just a tax on mission runners/ratters that means more of their income goes to miners to cover costs. I am not sure that makes the game better in any way, nor would it be sufficient to sink all those minerals.

By keeping both eyes open and using both hands

I'm here to tell you that the short answer is yes. Sure, people can be bad at the game and get blown up by rats, but by and far the biggest isk sink is PVP. If people never lost ships, demand plummets and then you're selling a magnate for 10,000 isk.

Take a minute, and try to realize you've been outmaneuvered.

"Pure" PvP games, the games with winners and losers? Are the most popular and long standing games and sports in the history of humankind.

What do you think the Olympic Games are? I mean, besides the oldest sporting event in the world. They are competitive, you are competing against other people.

It seems to me like you're bemoaning the fact that you're allowed to lose at all. If so, then you are very much playing the wrong game, Chunks.

No. As you said, it's a sandbox. If I feel like shooting them, then I get to do so.

This is a sandbox. Not a single player game.

You do not get to be alone, and burying your head in the sand to pretend like you are can and should have consequences.

Yeah people start with PvE and quit.
Of course they do.

They shouldn't get into the position of doing PvE in the first place ...
... then it would be much less likely for them to quit the boringness.

People who call for better PvE because of noobs ...
... ignore that it's their own griefing carebears who make noobs do PvE ...
... and thus ultimately make them quit.

Who deserves blame is these griefers and all the "PvP"ers who do not cover the rookiecorps.
It's them who are at fault for letting griefers have control over new players.

Not CCP.

And trust me I tried making people aware.

EVERY SINGLE PERSON I EVER TALKED TO ONLY HAD TWO INTERESTS:

.) Ranting
.) Himself, because helping is no fun.
.) Himself


And what happens now is that the nullsec forces take over recruiting ...
... with the potential of making it worse for everyone else ...
... because what leaders want is human labor, not thinking people.


So after letting this a while run I would like to point out
that there are people who completely took this issue out of your hands already.

I just wished ANYONE would really care and help kicking griefers out of the game.
But you don't. You all just suck on your own words as if they meant anything.

I am not telling anyone how to play the game, nor do I really care how they play they game. I am telling you how the game actually is. It is a competitive PvP sandbox game. It is also important to note that the developers intend Eve to be a competitive PvP sandbox game, not a single player missioning game. Engage with this game however you want, however do not come to the forums and bemoan the fact that Eve isn't what you want it to be because it is in fact how the developers want it to be.

But I will agree better with you that PvE would be better. I too would love for PvE to be more risky and interesting, but this is not what the main design of Eve Online is centered on. This game is structured to be about Everyone vs. Everyone, not solo missioner vs. NPCs so do not expect much in the way of new solo PvE content anytime soon.

The problem with PvE is that it doesn't allows players to generate content. The only content a PvE player can make, is to challenge himself to set goals and achieve them (picture the runner who wants to better his time in 2 minutes). Yet that runner is forced to run the same track over and over and over again. He can't leave the track. He can't build a different track. And in case he wants to compete, he needs to learn a totally different sport that never interested him, like boxing.

"But oh, you've come to a sports center famous for its boxing!" Yet that sports center happens to have the best running track in the place, and 62% of all members never ever leave the track and couldn't bother less about the boxing ring. Which explains why the running track is neglected by the owners.

Sadly, that's true for this game. But it doesn't need to be.

CCP could take a cue from many other multi-player games. From first person shooters to combat flight sims, many of these have one thing in common. The PVE is for training, not a separate game within a game. Graduating from missions into player on player is smooth and painless.

Now look at EVE. The transition is like learning to drive a Ford Model T and then being asked to jump into a Formula One car. They're somewhat the same on the outside but completely different in how they need to be driven. Like this game. PVE and PVP looks sort of the same but is actually two completely different games.

Unlike other games, the PVE in this game is not in any way helping to train for PVP. Different fits. Different modules. Different strategies. It's exceedingly difficult to make the transition from one to the other. That needs to change. CCP needs to rethink the entire PVE experience. Make it a training ground instead of teaching you to be a fish in a barrel.

Get to the point where you welcome a player opponent in your dynamically generated mission instead of being terrified. Because these missions have used an AI with similar actions to a player, requiring you to fit for PVP. It should be so smooth that you might not even notice that one of the bots is actually another player.

How great would it be that when people start to get tired of PVE combat, they can jump straight into PVP without have to relearn the game.

Mr Epeen

Burned missions do this quite well.