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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

First post First post First post
Author
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4261 - 2015-04-30 22:48:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinete Jenius
Shinta Kobi wrote:
Just to remind people, you don't technically 'own' the account you use, CCP does(as stated in the EULA).


With that being said, it's simple:

Play by the rules, you get to keep playing. Break them and they take the game away from you. Smile

Well the issue is that I am playing by the rules but from an outsider's perspective it looks like I'm using a repeater when I run my Nightmare fleet. Just the other night while I was recording my latest round of videos I had some serious hate in incursion local after I said "that's why I run incursions solo" after some people were complaining about some of the community groups. Next thing I know there was a dude yelling for everyone to petition me as a bot along with some people voicing their hatred of multiboxers.


That frankly is my only concern in regards to all this.
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
#4262 - 2015-05-01 13:23:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Dustpuppy
Lucas Kell wrote:
ISBoxers had nearly no effect on the game then, all they did were make some people sad pandas when they though someone was making more isk than them. .


The change had and has one positive aspect. It keeps you busy and I can collect your tears in this thread now for over 4 months. Lol

Let's see how many more months you will write poems in this thread until you realize that the change has happened such a long time ago that no one else except you is interested in it.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4263 - 2015-05-01 13:46:20 UTC
I'm somehow more busy now? You realise I wasn't an ISBoxer user, right? If you're going to attempt to troll, at least be good at it.

I actually run more accounts now (within the rules) specifically because I know it winds people like you up to know I'm running loads of accounts (15 currently, the aim is to work towards a decent way to run 32) all paid for with PLEX. Amusingly even when I wasn't multiboxing at all, I was still in part responsible for the high PLEX prices you hate, because I actively trade and invest in PLEX.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
#4264 - 2015-05-02 17:42:14 UTC
Your answer makes no sense. Noone who isn't affected by a game change spends so many months on complaining and discussing it in a forum. Either you don't say the truth, hide something or you have some more or less serious other problems with this game. Maybe you just should take a big breath, relax and shut down the computer for a while until you have a different point of view about this topic here.

On the other side feel free to continue this lost battle. Maybe at some point you become so obsessed with it that you end like Jack Nicholson in the pledge.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4265 - 2015-05-02 23:29:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Dustpuppy wrote:
Your answer makes no sense. Noone who isn't affected by a game change spends so many months on complaining and discussing it in a forum.
First off, yes they do. Look at the forum you are posting in. People literally have an opinion on everything.

Secondly, it directly affects everyone when CCP are making sweeping changes in the enforcement of their EULA and not giving us enough cause to believe that people who aren't breaking the rules won't be banned, so your point is moot.

At the end of the day, you are only posting here because you used to get all teared up by people playing with multiple characters paid for with PLEX. You seem to think this change eliminates that group of people (which you are incorrect by the way) and so are coming over to "collect tears", inadvertently embarrassing yourself.

Indeed though, I will continue this "lost battle" as you call it, and I'll continue pushing for the rights of all players to play within the rules without fear of being banned due to bad methods of detection being used or insanely blurry policies. You're welcome by the way.

Edit: By the way, been a while since I've seen the pledge, but I'm sure everyone thought he was crazy when in actual fact he was right all along. So thanks for your support.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Trakow
Beta Switch
#4266 - 2015-05-03 06:20:08 UTC
Dustpuppy is right. Nobody cares anymore, especially CCP. Old news. Move on...
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#4267 - 2015-05-03 07:27:53 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Dustpuppy wrote:
Your answer makes no sense. Noone who isn't affected by a game change spends so many months on complaining and discussing it in a forum.
First off, yes they do. Look at the forum you are posting in. People literally have an opinion on everything.

Secondly, it directly affects everyone when CCP are making sweeping changes in the enforcement of their EULA and not giving us enough cause to believe that people who aren't breaking the rules won't be banned, so your point is moot.


Something Something Use your own or third-Party software that modifies the interface or how the game is played at your own risk.Smile

Rules are rules. Smile
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4268 - 2015-05-03 07:34:10 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Something Something Use your own or third-Party software that modifies the interface or how the game is played at your own risk.Smile

Rules are rules. Smile
And yet there's still no certainty people won't get banned while using no special software. They've even stated that EVE-O Preview is completely legal to use, while it in itself does enough to get people banned.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#4269 - 2015-05-03 07:41:42 UTC
Perhaps, they already have client-side detection capabilities, and perhaps this thread will culminate in them admitting to it. Smile Keep fighting for personal gain and the ruinment of the greater Eve economy, meanwhile. Smile
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4270 - 2015-05-03 12:01:38 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Perhaps, they already have client-side detection capabilities, and perhaps this thread will culminate in them admitting to it. Smile Keep fighting for personal gain and the ruinment of the greater Eve economy, meanwhile. Smile
Roll
The economy never was and still isn't ruined by multiboxers. As for personal gain, I gain nothing from multiboxing in comparison to what I gain from trading, because trading is ludicrously overpowered. Sorry, I didn't realise you were new to EVE.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#4271 - 2015-05-03 13:23:18 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Perhaps, they already have client-side detection capabilities, and perhaps this thread will culminate in them admitting to it. Smile Keep fighting for personal gain and the ruinment of the greater Eve economy, meanwhile. Smile
Roll
The economy never was and still isn't ruined by multiboxers.


Multiboxers - no. We have been here since the Birth of Eve. Smile

Third-party or own software ISBotters - yes. Smile
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4272 - 2015-05-03 14:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
GankYou wrote:
Multiboxers - no. We have been here since the Birth of Eve. Smile

Third-party or own software ISBotters - yes. Smile
Which have also existed for quite some time, and with the exception of one or two players who went with 100 or more, have little to no impact on the size of multiboxer operations. If you honestly think they had any significant impact on the economy, then sorry mate but you need to learn a bit more about EVE. And actual botters, producing vast quantities of ISK for sale on illegitimate markets, will be unaffected by this change as they were already breaching the EULA before.

Besides which, you've made it clear that you dislike all multiboxers beyond those with a couple of accounts, regardless of software use.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#4273 - 2015-05-04 00:07:39 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Lucas Kell wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Multiboxers - no. We have been here since the Birth of Eve. Smile

Third-party or own software ISBotters - yes. Smile
Which have also existed for quite some time, and with the exception of one or two players who went with 100 or more, have little to no impact on the size of multiboxer operations. If you honestly think they had any significant impact on the economy, then sorry mate but you need to learn a bit more about EVE.


You're telling me this? Roll

Care to provide some hard numbers to support the bubbly-bub dreams of yours there? Smile

Of course not. Smile

Lucas Kell wrote:

Besides which, you've made it clear that you dislike all multiboxers beyond those with a couple of accounts, regardless of software use.


It took so long, thru so much travail to finally get the message across.

We don't need factory robot assembly-type efficiency in a video game at the expense of the core playerbase, thank you very much sir!

Use. Any. Own. Or. Third. Party. Software. Modifying. Either. The. Interface. Or. How. The. Game. Is. Played. With. The. Goals. Of. Acquisition. Of. In-game. Assets. And. Currency. At. Your. Own. Risk.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#4274 - 2015-05-04 05:24:56 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Multiboxers - no. We have been here since the Birth of Eve. Smile

Third-party or own software ISBotters - yes. Smile
Which have also existed for quite some time, and with the exception of one or two players who went with 100 or more, have little to no impact on the size of multiboxer operations. If you honestly think they had any significant impact on the economy, then sorry mate but you need to learn a bit more about EVE.


You're telling me this? Roll

Care to provide some hard numbers to support the bubbly-bub dreams of yours there? Smile

Of course not. Smile

Lucas Kell wrote:

Besides which, you've made it clear that you dislike all multiboxers beyond those with a couple of accounts, regardless of software use.


It took so long, thru so much travail to finally get the message across.

We don't need factory robot assembly-type efficiency in a video game at the expense of the core playerbase, thank you very much sir!

Use. Any. Own. Or. Third. Party. Software. Modifying. Either. The. Interface. Or. How. The. Game. Is. Played. With. The. Goals. Of. Acquisition. Of. In-game. Assets. And. Currency. At. Your. Own. Risk.

"At the expense of the core player base"; Interesting position to take.
EveOnline - 1 active .Exe per IP.
You can have multiple characters as long as you don't multibox?

EveOnline economy remains fairly stable and cost effective for the masses due to players working with multiple characters and robot like efficiency (no 3rd party programs needed), to carry out the most mundane and boring job in the game.
Without them the game economy would reach highs never before imaginable, 20 individual miners sitting in an ore anom is nowhere near as efficient or cost effective as one individual with 20 miners. The guy with 20 miners is what allows you to buy what you need at affordable prices because he isn't relying on one character for his profit..

One guy 20 miners -15 miners to cover costs, the other 5 is profit = Lower sale price for ore = Lower cost to end product consumer.
20 individuals mining, each needs to cover costs and make a profit = Higher sell prices for ore = Higher cost to end product consumer.

If a single miner needs to make 60 ml p/h (still pretty low compared to other isk making avenues), how much is 1 tritanium going to cost the manufacturer, who passes his cost on to the consumer?
High end ores would see little price change as everyone would mine them, so keeping the market fairly stable.
Lowend ores would sky rocket in price as everyone wants to make a profit and not until there are shortages do they become viable for individuals to mine. At which time, prices go up with demand.

Sure, the guy with 20 miners could sell his ore at higher prices and attempt to push market prices up BUT they don't because the next multiboxer is happy with the lower profit margin and so keeps the prices lower. Individual multiboxers have little effect on market prices but as a play style, they have a big impact as far as keeping things affordable for everyone else.

Extreme? 20 mil Rifters, 400 mil Ishtars, 1 bil for your next Domi.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4275 - 2015-05-04 07:29:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
GankYou wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Besides which, you've made it clear that you dislike all multiboxers beyond those with a couple of accounts, regardless of software use.
It took so long, thru so much travail to finally get the message across.
So finally you admit it. You're mad at multiboxers in general, hence all your tears. Multiboxing will always be an officially supported style of play. Always. So get over it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lee Sin Priest
Doomheim
#4276 - 2015-05-04 10:45:07 UTC
At least in Eve
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
#4277 - 2015-05-04 12:19:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Dustpuppy
Lucas Kell wrote:

Indeed though, I will continue this "lost battle" as you call it, and I'll continue pushing for the rights of all players to play within the rules without fear of being banned due to bad methods of detection being used or insanely blurry policies. You're welcome by the way.

Edit: By the way, been a while since I've seen the pledge, but I'm sure everyone thought he was crazy when in actual fact he was right all along. So thanks for your support.


Let's start with the pledge because it's really too long since you have seen it, and this time you should watch it until the end. I's not about the fact that he was right when searching for the murderer but the end of the movie where he became so obsessed with something that it drove him mad.

This brings up point 1 and the first part of your last answer. I am still unclear about your intentions. The change didn't affect you according to your statement so there is no direct reason for this here.
It seems that the change has caused some other damage in you. At least for me it's totally strange to keep a discussion alive for over 4 months just because something in the future might happen which might have some negative consequences in a game I am playing. Maybe you really should step back from the computer for a while and realize that this here is only a game and not a war.

Beside this: thx for the invitation to join your "fight", but I have better things to do than to complain about the past.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4278 - 2015-05-04 14:20:49 UTC
Dustpuppy wrote:
I am still unclear about your intentions. The change didn't affect you according to your statement so there is no direct reason for this here. It seems that the change has caused some other damage in you. At least for me it's totally strange to keep a discussion alive for over 4 months just because something in the future might happen which might have some negative consequences in a game I am playing.
We are all affected, at least all those that multibox. Whether you use software or not, there's a risk you'll get banned under a pretty severe policy for doing nothing wrong. You seem to think that in order to disagree with something CCP are doing that we need to be directly affected by it in our day to day playing. That's not the case. I was very much against Somer getting away with RMT, but it didn't affect me in the slightest.

Dustpuppy wrote:
Maybe you really should step back from the computer for a while and realize that this here is only a game and not a war.
You seem to be confused. I'm here in the official thread for these changes to discuss my opposition to them., as happens every single day on these forums. You are here because you want to "collect tears", or at least you want to throw around that used up meme even if it makes no sense in the context it's being used. Basically your spending your time badly trolling people.

Dustpuppy wrote:
Beside this: thx for the invitation to join your "fight", but I have better things to do than to complain about the past.
You misunderstand. I wasn't inviting you to join, I was pointing out that I stand up for the rights of players to play legitimately without being banned, which one assumes include you. Therefore I was saying no need to thank me, but you're welcome anyway.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#4279 - 2015-05-04 23:33:19 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Sgt Ocker wrote:

"At the expense of the core player base"; Interesting position to take.
EveOnline - 1 active .Exe per IP.
You can have multiple characters as long as you don't multibox?


Multiboxing has been in this game since its very start. and is very much encouraged by CCP

Don't call your botting activies as multiboxing, please use a proper term - ISBotting.

Quote:
EveOnline economy remains fairly stable and cost effective for the masses due to players working with multiple characters and robot like efficiency (no 3rd party programs needed), to carry out the most mundane and boring job in the game.
Without them the game economy would reach highs never before imaginable, 20 individual miners sitting in an ore anom is nowhere near as efficient or cost effective as one individual with 20 miners. The guy with 20 miners is what allows you to buy what you need at affordable prices because he isn't relying on one character for his profit..

One guy 20 miners -15 miners to cover costs, the other 5 is profit = Lower sale price for ore = Lower cost to end product consumer.
20 individuals mining, each needs to cover costs and make a profit = Higher sell prices for ore = Higher cost to end product consumer.


Yes, yes break out your calculator, see how much you could've made at the expense of everyone else, who doesn't print ISK.

Quote:
If a single miner needs to make 60 ml p/h (still pretty low compared to other isk making avenues), how much is 1 tritanium going to cost the manufacturer, who passes his cost on to the consumer?


You have it backwards, your income is derived out of the supply/demand balance which commands the price, and not your wishful thinking figure setting the price to achieve it.

Tritanium used to be 3 ISK p/u for most of Eve's history.

Quote:
High end ores would see little price change as everyone would mine them, so keeping the market fairly stable.
Lowend ores would sky rocket in price as everyone wants to make a profit and not until there are shortages do they become viable for individuals to mine. At which time, prices go up with demand.


Someone will always be mining.

We used to mine in Battleships with Tech 2 miners, we used to mine in Thoraxes.

There were no barges.

No Exumers.

No Strip Miners.

No Orcas.

No Rorquals.

No Mining Upgrades or implants.

And Tech 1 haulers were at the forefront of the industry, because neither freighters, nor high-cargo ships like carriers existed.

Good luck with your fantasy!

Sgt Ocker wrote:

Sure, the guy with 20 miners could sell his ore at higher prices and attempt to push market prices up BUT they don't because the next multiboxer is happy with the lower profit margin and so keeps the prices lower. Individual multiboxers have little effect on market prices but as a play style, they have a big impact as far as keeping things affordable for everyone else.

Extreme? 20 mil Rifters, 400 mil Ishtars, 1 bil for your next Domi.


For one, you can't ISBot the moon to squeeze juice for your Ishtars. Lol

But keep peddling 20 mil Rifters and 300 mil Tech 1 cruiser story. Guy has indeed found some numbers - out of his ass quite frankly.

Someone might believe it.

Someone who hasn't been playing since 2004. Smile

Someone who isn't CCP. Smile

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5690029#post5690029
Mexallon: http://i.imgur.com/9lPYnoh.png
Pyerite: http://i.imgur.com/9PIVckB.png
Tritanium: http://i.imgur.com/ANCnbIR.png

Gosh, 1bn Domis - here we come!

More ISBotters in the game - EVERYTHING gets more expensive in the end, as the core playerbase craters with only people left, who do RMT, or sell PLEX to fund their PvP activities, as the need for RAW resources evaporates and is fulfilled with a handful of ISBotting groups, while the rest print ISK.

Look at Serenity.

Thank you for the laugh, THIS IS THE BEST THREAD EVER! Big smile
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#4280 - 2015-05-05 00:10:34 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Lucas Kell wrote:
Multiboxing will always be an officially supported style of play. Always. So get over it.


Indeed.

However, own or third-party software ISBotting isn't. Always. So get over it. Blink