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Coming back to capital construction after a break. Need some tips

Author
Jack Hatered
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2015-05-03 02:05:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Hatered
Hey all,

I am coming back to eve and capital manufacturing after a year+ long break since before they changed the industry system and I am feeling a bit overwhelmed trying to figure out how to get settled and producing effectively before.

My previous system utilized several alts + 1 POS. I would use the POS with 4 component arrays to build all the components in high sec, then when it was safe, i would move all the components into a low sec NPC station where I assembled the actual capital ships.

I utilized a spreadsheet (DeDafs Industrial spreadsheet) to help me determine how much resources each build would need and how much it would cost and how much profit I would make (roughly)

Is this still the preferred method of doing things? or is there now a better way? I am eager to learn everything there is about capital manufacturing in the new system. Should I still be using a POS? or is a NPC station the preferred method for building everything (including the components)? is Dedafs industrial spreadsheet still the best tool for determining profit/loss from a proposed capital build? is there anything that I should know about capital manufacturing now that wasn't a factor in the old system? these are just a few of the questions I have.

I would greatly welcome any and all information on this topic so I can start buying what tools I need and putting my blueprints to good use again to make some ISK.

Thank you in advance!
Whalt Thisney
StellarTech Industries
Sanctus Cor
#2 - 2015-05-03 07:17:36 UTC
The basics are the same - spreadsheets, POS.
One of the industry changes is that unlimited number of jobs can be started in assembly arrays and labs, so you need only one in the POS (of every kind you want to use). Your 4 chars you still will be able to run maximum of 44 jobs in the array (provided you have max skills).

Second change that matters is the new Thukker Component Assembly Array, with bonuses to make capital and advanced capital (JF) construction components, but it need to be anchored in lowsec. The bonuses are a game changer making the difference of hundreds of milions of profit on capital ship. Basically without using it you can't compete with other manufacturers that have one.
Downside is using it in lowsec POS. Possible usage pattern would be anchor the tower + Thukker array in lowsec system, haul the materials, build every component with multiple BPCs in parallel with your 4 chars to speed up the manufacturing so you are finished as soon as possible, the unanchor the array until needed. If you plan to build continuously, make friends with larger lowsec alliance to get help to defend the POS (remember, capitals can attack you POS in lowsec).

Third change - no blueprints in station and building in POS. You have to put the blueprints in POS array in order to manufacture. Use LOTS of BPCs instead of BPOs.

Fourth change - system cost indexes (manufacturing one in this case). The more someone is building in the system, the higher are costs to start the job. The jobs now have MUCH larger cost to start and in station you have to pay the tax in addition to job cost. That can cut your profit even further.

I surely have forgotten to mention lots of other small changes, but I think these are the most important for capital bulding.
Ave Kathrina
My Ass Is On Fire
#3 - 2015-05-03 15:24:33 UTC
Jack Hatered wrote:
Hey all,

My previous system utilized several alts + 1 POS. I would use the POS with 4 component arrays to build all the components in high sec, then when it was safe, i would move all the components into a low sec NPC station where I assembled the actual capital ships.



What the hell did you use to move the capital ship components into lowsec ?

I used to use mineral compression with modules like 425mm rail guns to get my minerals 1 jump into a lowsec system for component and hull builds. Surley the cost of POS fuel cost more than the station fees to build the components in an NPC POS?
I've done some really stupid shit in this game.
Jack Hatered
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2015-05-03 21:15:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Hatered
Whalt Thisney wrote:
The basics are the same - spreadsheets, POS.
One of the industry changes is that unlimited number of jobs can be started in assembly arrays and labs, so you need only one in the POS (of every kind you want to use). Your 4 chars you still will be able to run maximum of 44 jobs in the array (provided you have max skills).

Second change that matters is the new Thukker Component Assembly Array, with bonuses to make capital and advanced capital (JF) construction components, but it need to be anchored in lowsec. The bonuses are a game changer making the difference of hundreds of milions of profit on capital ship. Basically without using it you can't compete with other manufacturers that have one.
Downside is using it in lowsec POS. Possible usage pattern would be anchor the tower + Thukker array in lowsec system, haul the materials, build every component with multiple BPCs in parallel with your 4 chars to speed up the manufacturing so you are finished as soon as possible, the unanchor the array until needed. If you plan to build continuously, make friends with larger lowsec alliance to get help to defend the POS (remember, capitals can attack you POS in lowsec).

Third change - no blueprints in station and building in POS. You have to put the blueprints in POS array in order to manufacture. Use LOTS of BPCs instead of BPOs.

Fourth change - system cost indexes (manufacturing one in this case). The more someone is building in the system, the higher are costs to start the job. The jobs now have MUCH larger cost to start and in station you have to pay the tax in addition to job cost. That can cut your profit even further.

I surely have forgotten to mention lots of other small changes, but I think these are the most important for capital bulding.



Thank you so much for the advice! I did see the thukker component assembly array but didn't notice it was lowsec only. I have to decide if my operation and activity level warrant setting up for something like this. I don't typically login to the game every day so if the POS was attacked in low sec I would be rather screwed if it was during the middle of the week or something. I might wait a bit until they implement the personal starbase stuff they were talking about at Fanfest and then try and get into a larger alliance that would have the muscle to protect it in exchange for discounted capital ships or something.




Ave Kathrina wrote:
Jack Hatered wrote:
Hey all,

My previous system utilized several alts + 1 POS. I would use the POS with 4 component arrays to build all the components in high sec, then when it was safe, i would move all the components into a low sec NPC station where I assembled the actual capital ships.



What the hell did you use to move the capital ship components into lowsec ?

I used to use mineral compression with modules like 425mm rail guns to get my minerals 1 jump into a lowsec system for component and hull builds. Surley the cost of POS fuel cost more than the station fees to build the components in an NPC POS?


Charons with a cloaky rapier on the other side for instawarpping and to watch local. Also was friends with the local group of pirates and they would be my muscle if I needed it. in the 9 months I was in full production ( 11 capital ships every 10 days) I only lost one charon due to being distracted, I just shrugged it off and bought a new one along with all the lost components on the market in the nearest trading hub.

I thought about the station fees / POS fuel cost comparisons and decided it was worth going the POS route as it allowed me to easily manufacture all my components at once in one location, and the system I was operating out of at the time had limited manufacturing production lines to use so if I wanted to use the station I would have had to spread my operation over several solar systems and I didn't want to deal with the increased logistics needed.
Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-05-04 23:51:47 UTC
In the past, the only way to get compressed ore involved a Rorqual (or huge numbers of 425mm guns). Now there is a compression array that can be anchored at any POS (this means seeing compressed ore on the market is very common and not some sort of scam). There were refining changes last year (some analysis). They were a first step on the way to make nullsec industry viable without clunky workarounds.

If you do decide on the thukker assembly array, it might be worth setting up a refining array (intensive gives 54% base yield compared to 50% of npc stations). This means that you could probably ship in compressed ore in a single blockade runner, then refine and build in lowsec.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#6 - 2015-05-05 19:45:08 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
My advice is to not get stuck with either an inventory, or resource stock that you will be forced to sell below your build/acquisition cost, as mineral prices are setting new record lows each passing day, and the movement has only started.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=417056&find=unread

Mexallon alone is down 27% since Earth-February YC117 levels. This was a Historic change for EvE, don't be the one left holding the bag. Blink
Jack Hatered
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2015-05-05 22:08:45 UTC
Huttan Funaila wrote:
In the past, the only way to get compressed ore involved a Rorqual (or huge numbers of 425mm guns). Now there is a compression array that can be anchored at any POS (this means seeing compressed ore on the market is very common and not some sort of scam). There were refining changes last year (some analysis). They were a first step on the way to make nullsec industry viable without clunky workarounds.

If you do decide on the thukker assembly array, it might be worth setting up a refining array (intensive gives 54% base yield compared to 50% of npc stations). This means that you could probably ship in compressed ore in a single blockade runner, then refine and build in lowsec.


The compression array is a nice addition! I wish I had one of those back when I was in a nulsec alliance pulling in millions of M3 of ore each day. haha.

Is there a spreadsheet or tool that I can use to determine what compressed ores I should get in order to refine and get enough resources to cover my build? Id like to look at the numbers to determine the method that yields the most profit
minumin
Corellian Trading Corporation
#8 - 2015-05-08 09:48:26 UTC
something like this
https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/compression/
but i think it just offers the best compression option, but not the cheapest one
Kisle
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-05-14 12:31:10 UTC
Hey guys.

I have one question. Does it cost the same to install jobs in Thukker Component Assembly Array as in the station in the same system?

The only advantage of using POS is that this special module use 15% less materials. Are there any other advantages?

Thank you
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-05-19 19:38:00 UTC
Kisle wrote:
Hey guys.

I have one question. Does it cost the same to install jobs in Thukker Component Assembly Array as in the station in the same system?

The only advantage of using POS is that this special module use 15% less materials. Are there any other advantages?

Thank you

In station you pay 10% tax to NPCs, with POS you do not pay this tax.