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Rebalancing Warfare Links
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LeFleur
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2015-05-02 19:35:55 UTC
I think the weapon timers idea is great, but have you consider also a suspect timer for out of corp boosts? If logistic ships get it while repairing out of corp, why not linking ships?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#62 - 2015-05-02 21:35:12 UTC
LeFleur wrote:
I think the weapon timers idea is great, but have you consider also a suspect timer for out of corp boosts? If logistic ships get it while repairing out of corp, why not linking ships?


an outright ban on out of war boosters is much preferred and logi should get the same treatment.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#63 - 2015-05-02 22:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Harvey James wrote:

an outright ban on out of war boosters is much preferred and logi should get the same treatment.

So no possibility of good Samaritans saving someone not in corp in a fight?
Also no more NPSI roams since you can't have out of corp boosters if a single person in the fleet is out of corp.
Etc.

Suspect or the boosts stop depending on safety is a 'possibility' but also abusable very easily to suddenly kill boosts mid fight and the FC has no idea who in his fleet is in a war without checking all 250 members individually.
LeFleur
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2015-05-03 14:50:22 UTC
Yeah, I don't agree with the banning, but in eve every action has a consequence, and out of corp boosting hasn't, and as such it's imbalanced.
Nevil Kincade
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2015-05-05 01:13:26 UTC
The original post is a good first step. As no Change could make things worse about links than they are now.
I would prefer to see an Approach though were the links strength scale with the fragility of the boosting ship. Fast Tech III Destroyers come to mind which would Need to be prioritized in fights just like interdictors. So in order to Profit from strong links you would Need an active and skilled Pilot flying through the danger Zone without blowing up. Maybe Limit the link range to 50km and Limit the bonuses to the squad only.
Something like that, you get the Picture.
Wilj0
#66 - 2015-05-05 03:25:10 UTC
Mechanical Infidel wrote:
Wouldn't it be better just to make links targeted buffs. You could just use scripts to make it the link itself swap projected modes, (examples; Self Aoe Buff, Targeted Aoe Buff, Single Target Buff) and make it FoF buffs so they don't have to rewrite legacy code to achieve it. Not sure it would melt the servers compared to smartbombs and bombs but they could make module/buff duration last longer to offset it.

This way command ship performance and decisions can easily swing battles and fleet positioning will become vitally important. Obviously it would require rebalancing a lot of command ship stats and modules and am to not sure if CCP are close to their current solution.



I like his idea. Making the links a "buffing" module kind of like remote repping, or remote sensor boosting. You gotta be on grid, in range. You can even make them work like smartbombs with an affect pulsing to everyone within range or what not.
Pestilen Ratte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2015-07-13 06:11:15 UTC
So, this issue just became real for my small corp. We are reasonably new players.

We enjoy Faction Warfare, but yesterday we faced a linked enemy and the outcome was so one sided that it is doubtful whether we will keep going with Eve Online. It was just ridiculous. I wont go into details, except to say that links made a tech 1 frigate invulnerable, and capable of destroying any number of unlinked tech 1 frigates in a novice plex.

To repeat, links made a tech 1 ship invulnerable to other tech one ships. Not "more powerful", not "more competitive". Invulnerable. The pilot was lol-ing in local. So we packed up and went home.

Which is what you are going to do, right? When faced with an invulnerable enemy. You can stick around and get laughed at, or you stop playing.

Does anybody here know which staff at CCP support the idea of off grid links? Specifically, does anybody know exactly which staff members are in favour of the concept?

Because they have to go. They are a cancer on the game. They represent all that is worst about the Even community.

No matter how you weigh the issue, any mechanic that creates incentives for new players to give up is a cancer on the game.

Any mechanic that allows players to laugh at other players because they are invulnerable is exactly this.

Ask yourself, would any sane person pay to watch a football match where one side cannot lose the ball? Would any sane person play such a game?

Of course not, it is self evident. Anyone who even suggests such a weird idea for a sporting contest is clearly stupid. And demonstrates degenerate values.

The BIG problem at CCP is that they have let a culture of stupid bullies emerge. Amongst their staff, one can witness relatively young men who are allowed to promote cowardly and openly idiotic mechanics because ....... well that is where I don't know.

Why does CCP tolerate the drunken half wits who have no honour and no respect for other human beings?

CCP need to cull their ranks, and get rid of the morons who support such stupid, stupid ideas such as off grid links.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#68 - 2015-07-13 06:52:37 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Pestilen,

While I do not like off-grid boosting any more than the next person... your defeatist attitude leaves a lot to be desired.

Yes, fighting linked, implanted, boosted opponents can seem completely futile, but only if you let them dictate the terms of the fight. Chasing after him as he kites you is silly - you need to make him engage you somewhere you can hold him down and crush him. Never let your opponent dictate the terms of the engagement.

Bring your own counters to his style - a couple of frigate logistics ships can negate him completely. As long as you stick together.

Additionally, scanning down his link alt and killing it is about the most satisfying feeling on earth.

There's also the, "if you cannot beat them, join them" school of thought.

If you are genuinely new players, these may seem like very long term goals to train characters that can catch a dude like that. The character bazaar is always an option if your corp can scrap together some ISK from your hard-earned LP grinding and wants to improve their chances.

FInally, there is no ship like friendship.

I'd venture a guess that if you were to reach out to some more experienced players, you could find someone willing to assist you with either providing your own links or catching this dude's off-grid booster. One dead off-grid booster makes up for a ton of T1 frigates.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2015-07-13 15:45:04 UTC
Tikktokk Tokkzikk wrote:
The goal is to make warfare links fun, skill intensive and balanced for fleets of any size in a way that's viable right now and doesn't require new technology:

  • Remove Command Processors
  • Command ships and strategic cruisers with the Warfare Processor subsystem can fit two links
  • Warfare links trigger a weapon timer
  • Replace all current warfare links with the following: 
    • Skirmish Warfare Link I:
    0.6% bonus to speed of fleet's afterburner and microwarpdrive modules
    0.6% bonus to range of fleet's propulsion jamming modules
    0.6% reduction to fleet's signature radius

    Siege Warfare Link I:
    0.6% bonus to fleet's shield resistances
    0.6% reduction to capacitor usage of fleet's shield booster and shield transporters
    0.6% reduction to cycle time of shield boosters and shield transporters

    Armor Warfare Link I:
    0.6% bonus to fleet's armor resistances
    0.6% reduction to capacitor usage of fleet's armor repair and remote armor repair
    0.6% reduction to cycle time of fleet's armor repair and remote armor repair

    Information Warfare Link I:
    0.6% bonus to fleet's lock range and sensor strength
    0.6% bonus to range of fleet's electronic warfare modules
    0.6% bonus to strength of fleet's electronic warfare modules

  • T2 warfare links get a 0.75% bonus instead 0.6%
  • Each of the warfare links have three scripts that boost one bonus by 200% at the expense of the other two.

After bonuses from perfect skills, command ships and mindlinks, T2 links provide a ~3.23% bonus unscripted or a ~9.7% bonus scripted.

While this doesn't remove off-grid boosting, being vulnerable off-grid due to the weapon timer, being able to fit tank and weapons with only two links, and having to be active to change scripts makes on-grid links optimal.

Disclaimer: I've got an alt with 12m SP in leadership and command ships 5.


I would like tho see that the boosting ship will also make the booster a suspect/criminal/limited engagement if the fleet does something that triggers some of those timers.

So e.g. if your boosted mate attacks someone you also get the limited engagement timer.
If you boost e.g. a Minmatar FW-Char which attacks a Amarr milita pilot and you aren´t in milita you loose your ship....
If you in the amarr milita and boost the enemy you will also get a standing hit ....

I mean boosting does a great impact on fight without any drawbacks.

+1
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#70 - 2015-07-13 18:10:33 UTC
Pestilen Ratte wrote:
So, this issue just became real for my small corp. We are reasonably new players.

We enjoy Faction Warfare, but yesterday we faced a linked enemy and the outcome was so one sided that it is doubtful whether we will keep going with Eve Online. It was just ridiculous. I wont go into details, except to say that links made a tech 1 frigate invulnerable, and capable of destroying any number of unlinked tech 1 frigates in a novice plex.

To repeat, links made a tech 1 ship invulnerable to other tech one ships. Not "more powerful", not "more competitive". Invulnerable. The pilot was lol-ing in local. So we packed up and went home.

Which is what you are going to do, right? When faced with an invulnerable enemy. You can stick around and get laughed at, or you stop playing.

Does anybody here know which staff at CCP support the idea of off grid links? Specifically, does anybody know exactly which staff members are in favour of the concept?

Because they have to go. They are a cancer on the game. They represent all that is worst about the Even community.

No matter how you weigh the issue, any mechanic that creates incentives for new players to give up is a cancer on the game.

Any mechanic that allows players to laugh at other players because they are invulnerable is exactly this.

Ask yourself, would any sane person pay to watch a football match where one side cannot lose the ball? Would any sane person play such a game?

Of course not, it is self evident. Anyone who even suggests such a weird idea for a sporting contest is clearly stupid. And demonstrates degenerate values.

The BIG problem at CCP is that they have let a culture of stupid bullies emerge. Amongst their staff, one can witness relatively young men who are allowed to promote cowardly and openly idiotic mechanics because ....... well that is where I don't know.

Why does CCP tolerate the drunken half wits who have no honour and no respect for other human beings?

CCP need to cull their ranks, and get rid of the morons who support such stupid, stupid ideas such as off grid links.



what ship was he in? were you only trying to 1v1 him? if not then you were doing it wrong as even frigs have logi now and have always had ewar available to them. knowing what ship hes in lets you bring the counter that will stop him