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Petition: Remove Slaves from the SCC Markets.
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Kalo Askold
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#181 - 2015-03-26 17:18:52 UTC
PIE offering a lot of lip service with doing the very least for those they seem to want to help. Keep the slaves only for the lords who are just as bad as many capsuleers, sometimes worse.

Not Signed

The Amarr have no legitimacy in slave affairs and should not be given good attention when it's obvious they do not care about religious teachings. If they did Vitoxin would not be used and be banned, and slaves taught strict doctrines instead of being reduced to a child like state as they move planetary resources.
Liam Antolliere
Doomheim
#182 - 2015-03-26 18:30:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Liam Antolliere
After careful consideration, I will add my signature in support to this notion.

While I oppose the practice of slavery on principle, I believe the regulation of the practice so it is restricted to the administration of those individuals who are qualified to oversee their instruction and edification under the guidelines and mandates of the governing entity which institutes the practice in the first place is far more preferable than the free access to slaves allowing the abuse and outright ignominy afforded to these individuals by those with less investment in their proper care.

....now I need a strong drink to wash this bitter aftertaste away.

S'il vous plaît pardonnez-moi.

"Though the people may hate me, that does not relieve me of my charge."
Dailar Toralen
Toralen Industries
#183 - 2015-03-26 21:16:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Dailar Toralen
I would like to clarify something temporarily. My disregard for this Petition is not me supporting slavery, but however I hope to continue the expand the influence of Capsuleers within Imperial society, especially the ones that fight for the Empire. While we do not risk our lives (we are immortal), we risk something sometimes considered far greater, our banks. Basically, I am not disregarding this in support for slavery, yet to influence Capsuleer's rights (in fact I support Intaki Liberation from the Gallente Federation and am making bold moves to support the Intaki Home-System as a Trade Hub).

We are Toralen Industries. It doesn't matter if you fight for money, idealogies, or because it's what you are good at and it doesn't matter if you fight threw trade, combat, or diplomacy. No matter what or how you fight, there's a place for you.
Nishachara
Stillwater Corporation
#184 - 2015-04-01 11:41:14 UTC
Signed .
Benedicta Secheh
Doomheim
#185 - 2015-04-16 22:56:36 UTC
Signed. Only Holders or duly authorized custodians should be permitted to acquire slaves from Imperial entities.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#186 - 2015-04-17 08:48:13 UTC
Mensha Khael Crow
House Murder
#187 - 2015-04-17 11:14:40 UTC
Signed.



Mensha Khael Crow
Capsuleer House Murder
Our righteousness is evident in the failures of the heathen, God keep us from falling prey to their weaknesses.
Sahriah BloodStone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#188 - 2015-04-17 17:06:53 UTC
Merdaneth wrote:


My opinion is congruent with that of Admiral Blake on this matter.

No blanket bans. Merely introduce proper checks and balances.


Not Signed

The premise here is that only Amarrians have some imaginary right to own slaves. Just because you started doing it first, does not take away the right of anybody else to participate.

That being said i would be in support of proper background checks and regulations to ensure the industry is maintained properly.

Sahriah Bloodstone

No.Mercy // Triumvirate

"Never underestimate your enemy or disrespect its abilities. If you do, you shall become the hunted "
Isaiah Bishop
#189 - 2015-04-17 17:28:37 UTC
Signed.

Not for the reasons stated by those who generated the petition -- but that is irrelevant.
Lorelei Maeve
#190 - 2015-04-18 22:11:35 UTC
Liam Antolliere wrote:
After careful consideration, I will add my signature in support to this notion.

While I oppose the practice of slavery on principle, I believe the regulation of the practice so it is restricted to the administration of those individuals who are qualified to oversee their instruction and edification under the guidelines and mandates of the governing entity which institutes the practice in the first place is far more preferable than the free access to slaves allowing the abuse and outright ignominy afforded to these individuals by those with less investment in their proper care.

....now I need a strong drink to wash this bitter aftertaste away.

S'il vous plaît pardonnez-moi.


Out of curiosity, what makes you think the people in question treat them any better or are more qualified to own them?

When one has weighed the sun in the balance, and measured the steps of the moon, and mapped out the seven heavens, there still remains oneself. Who can calculate the orbit of his own soul?
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#191 - 2015-05-01 16:41:25 UTC
Hmph. I definitely do not sign.

Crew are far too expensive, especially when they know they'll be going into a wormhole, where surviving a ship's destruction is often a worse fate than dying with it.

A few hundred slaves and the necessary Vitoc and antidote are far cheaper, even when the slaves have been through the rigorous training necessary for use on Capsuleer ships, than trying to replace more worthwhile crews.

I would also add that the use of slaves greatly reduces the risk of some planet-dweller or station-walker from getting the notion in their head for revenge. The first few assassination attempts may have been humorous, but after that, it just becomes a nuisance.

For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#192 - 2015-05-01 17:23:38 UTC
You are a Gallente capsuleer. You are not a Holder. You have no right to own slaves. The fact that someone like you is able to acquire them is exactly why this measure exists.
Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#193 - 2015-05-01 17:48:36 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
You are a Gallente capsuleer. You are not a Holder. You have no right to own slaves. The fact that someone like you is able to acquire them is exactly why this measure exists.



Point of Order Miss Kernher. If you want to limit the sale of slaves within Amarr, that's fine. Khanid has different laws. Everywhere else has different laws. Some oppose the sale, some do not. Others simply don't care. Be he Gallente or Theran, I'm fairly certain the Empire is in no position to dictate to him what his "rights" are.

Now if Mssr. Archipelago is in the market, I have a fine assortment at the moment at popular prices...


"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#194 - 2015-05-01 17:48:51 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
You are a Gallente capsuleer. You are not a Holder. You have no right to own slaves. The fact that someone like you is able to acquire them is exactly why this measure exists.


No one ought to have that "right" but, even if the Amarrians actually enforced a holders only policy it wouldn't stop for example the Angel Cartel so, this has no power to stop this Gallentean capsuleer from getting and abusing slaves.
Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#195 - 2015-05-01 17:51:23 UTC
Now that the cluster-wide News Services have picked up on this Petition according to its mention in today's Scope News "running cable", I have more hopes that it might be considered seriously.

Again, I urge those who - after careful consideration have reviewed what the Bishop proposes - agree, to sign.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#196 - 2015-05-01 18:11:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
The purpose of this petition was actually addressed to the SCC markets, not the Amarr Empire, the Khanid Kingdom, or other sovereign - or less sovereign - entities. The presence of slaves unregulated on the SCC markets was the issue at hand. It was not about regulation of the slave trade inside those entities, but regulation on the SCC market.

If I understood correctly, of course...

After careful consideration past those last months, I would like to add my signature on that petition, and feel that since slaves are prohibited in every empire but the Amarr Empire and Khanid Kingdom, added to the fact that capsuleers have no legal right from the Amarr Empire itself to deal in slave trading, then it becomes clear that the presence of slaves on said markets only creates problems.

If some capsuleers also holding any slaver or holder title are interested in the slave trade, they should pass through proper means, which are channels internal to the Empire or the Kingdom themselves. They are able to buy or sell slaves by Amarr or Khanid law, and not SCC law, and so should be restrained by those laws instead of SCC laws.

In short... that means that it should remain a baseliner issue and only a baseliner issue. Or, if for some reason slaves have to be authorized to capsuleer market through the SCC, then those markets and those of the empires should be kept separated.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#197 - 2015-05-01 18:35:22 UTC
Winter Archipelago wrote:
Hmph. I definitely do not sign.

Crew are far too expensive, especially when they know they'll be going into a wormhole, where surviving a ship's destruction is often a worse fate than dying with it.

A few hundred slaves and the necessary Vitoc and antidote are far cheaper, even when the slaves have been through the rigorous training necessary for use on Capsuleer ships, than trying to replace more worthwhile crews.

I would also add that the use of slaves greatly reduces the risk of some planet-dweller or station-walker from getting the notion in their head for revenge. The first few assassination attempts may have been humorous, but after that, it just becomes a nuisance.


I never have a problem getting volunteers. Perhaps it's a problem of charisma?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Cakzad Arcashiri
Arcashiri Family
#198 - 2015-05-01 18:36:04 UTC
Signed.

As dictated by Amarrian Law and the Scriptures, only Holders and other figures authorized by the Emperor or Empress or the Theology Council may own and trade slaves.

I delivered a lecture upon leaving the Amarr Royal Institute concerning this anomaly created by the SCC, CONCORD, and the Empire. In my point of view this is allowed due to the fact that the Capsuleers hate us.

I will not go into a full on lecture, but basically this is heresy and should've been acted on by the Amarrian Goverment by now.

"I give to you the destiny of Faith,

And you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens:

Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given."

- The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 22:13
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#199 - 2015-05-01 19:03:03 UTC
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
You are a Gallente capsuleer. You are not a Holder. You have no right to own slaves. The fact that someone like you is able to acquire them is exactly why this measure exists.


Point of Order Miss Kernher. If you want to limit the sale of slaves within Amarr, that's fine. Khanid has different laws. Everywhere else has different laws. Some oppose the sale, some do not. Others simply don't care. Be he Gallente or Theran, I'm fairly certain the Empire is in no position to dictate to him what his "rights" are.

Now if Mssr. Archipelago is in the market, I have a fine assortment at the moment at popular prices...


God is in the position to dictate that right, and He has dictated through Scripture that that right is given exclusively to Holders.

It is heresy and a crime against God for anyone that is not a Holder to own slaves.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#200 - 2015-05-01 19:12:21 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
The purpose of this petition was actually addressed to the SCC markets, not the Amarr Empire, the Khanid Kingdom, or other sovereign - or less sovereign - entities. The presence of slaves unregulated on the SCC markets was the issue at hand. It was not about regulation of the slave trade inside those entities, but regulation on the SCC market.

If I understood correctly, of course...

After careful consideration past those last months, I would like to add my signature on that petition, and feel that since slaves are prohibited in every empire but the Amarr Empire and Khanid Kingdom, added to the fact that capsuleers have no legal right from the Amarr Empire itself to deal in slave trading, then it becomes clear that the presence of slaves on said markets only creates problems.

If some capsuleers also holding any slaver or holder title are interested in the slave trade, they should pass through proper means, which are channels internal to the Empire or the Kingdom themselves. They are able to buy or sell slaves by Amarr or Khanid law, and not SCC law, and so should be restrained by those laws instead of SCC laws.

In short... that means that it should remain a baseliner issue and only a baseliner issue. Or, if for some reason slaves have to be authorized to capsuleer market through the SCC, then those markets and those of the empires should be kept separated.

Was it really Mrs Farel?

Alizebeth Amalath wrote:

...Changing the policy of the Imperial and Khanid institutions that sell slaves on the SCC market is a much more attainable and specific goal....

Alizebeth Amalath wrote:
This is not directed at the SCC. This is directed to the Civic Court, Khanid Transport and the Ammatar Consulate. These are three Imperial/Kingdom agencies operating in sovereign Imperial/Kingdom space. This is a purely internal affair and has no bearing on the wider SCC markets or operations.

Alizebeth Amalath wrote:
Samira is correct. This is in relation to the Greater Amarrian organizations. I personally would not be upset if all slaves were removed from the SCC market, but that is not what this is about.