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MOSAIC - General Feedback

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Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#241 - 2015-04-30 14:59:58 UTC
Marius Labo wrote:
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Hey all,

I just want to respond to the feedback regarding the removal of the titles from a characters show info window. This change was done by Five 0 after discussion at the CSM winter summit, where it was pointed out that having titles publicly viewable limits their effectiveness for actually managing groups of roles.

Ultimately we would like to completely separate vanity titles from role management titles, as we believe there's compelling and often different reasons for corporations to want to use both, but this was out of the scope for our corporation work at this time (The wheels of the Sovereignty rework trundle on and wait for no Dev Blink). Therefore we felt that making this small change for the time being would mitigate the concern raised until we could return to Titles and give them the attention that we all agree they need.

However, after reading your feedback, we realise that the unintentional side effect of this is that we have complicated matters for corporations who use this feature for visibility of corp members abilities and responsibilities. Therefore, for the time being we are reverting this change and returning titles to the show info window of anyone who has them. This should be reaching Tranquillity early next week, and will remain this way until we can properly revamp them.

Sorry for the poor communication of this change on our part, we hope this goes some way towards allaying your concerns and explaining our long term intentions for corporate titles.

CCP Lebowski, On behalf of Five 0


It seems like the best solution is to provide a toggle for visibility. I can't see anyone disagreeing with this function.

And there are viable means in place for those who have legitimate sensitive data concerns via a named title assigned to roles. They can assign the roles without using the Title Management function and if the need is there to use the Title Management function by leaving the title with the default "Untitled #" there won't be any visible title (I have confirmed this in-game) so there won't be any intel or sensitive data gleaned by using the Title Management function in this fashion.

The trouble with using "Untitled #" or other obfuscated names is that you need a flaming lookup table just to remember what your titles do. I was so looking forward to finally having HUMAN READABLE TITLE NAMES :( Now excuse me whilst I go back and reset them back to their obfuscated names CryUgh
Astroyka
IXXAXAAR
#242 - 2015-04-30 15:37:25 UTC
Caldari 5 wrote:
Marius Labo wrote:
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Hey all,

I just want to respond to the feedback regarding the removal of the titles from a characters show info window. This change was done by Five 0 after discussion at the CSM winter summit, where it was pointed out that having titles publicly viewable limits their effectiveness for actually managing groups of roles.

Ultimately we would like to completely separate vanity titles from role management titles, as we believe there's compelling and often different reasons for corporations to want to use both, but this was out of the scope for our corporation work at this time (The wheels of the Sovereignty rework trundle on and wait for no Dev Blink). Therefore we felt that making this small change for the time being would mitigate the concern raised until we could return to Titles and give them the attention that we all agree they need.

However, after reading your feedback, we realise that the unintentional side effect of this is that we have complicated matters for corporations who use this feature for visibility of corp members abilities and responsibilities. Therefore, for the time being we are reverting this change and returning titles to the show info window of anyone who has them. This should be reaching Tranquillity early next week, and will remain this way until we can properly revamp them.

Sorry for the poor communication of this change on our part, we hope this goes some way towards allaying your concerns and explaining our long term intentions for corporate titles.

CCP Lebowski, On behalf of Five 0


It seems like the best solution is to provide a toggle for visibility. I can't see anyone disagreeing with this function.

And there are viable means in place for those who have legitimate sensitive data concerns via a named title assigned to roles. They can assign the roles without using the Title Management function and if the need is there to use the Title Management function by leaving the title with the default "Untitled #" there won't be any visible title (I have confirmed this in-game) so there won't be any intel or sensitive data gleaned by using the Title Management function in this fashion.

The trouble with using "Untitled #" or other obfuscated names is that you need a flaming lookup table just to remember what your titles do. I was so looking forward to finally having HUMAN READABLE TITLE NAMES :( Now excuse me whilst I go back and reset them back to their obfuscated names CryUgh


You are in the minority.

I'm pleased that Titles are being reinstated, thank you CCP! I just hope the future changes to this feature alluded to are inline with what the community wants.

Astroyka

A New Eden pilot, fighting against slavery in New Eden

www.astroyka.net

@Astroyka
CCP Turtlepower
C C P
C C P Alliance
#243 - 2015-04-30 15:59:22 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Turtlepower
Mournful Conciousness wrote:

On another note, please can we have a response to the map debacle.


The map is still being worked on, with probing and scanning being our current top priority. We have not removed the old map, it is still accessible by pressing F10 or using the old map button in the Neocom menu.

Please direct any further feedback on the new map to this thread.

Cheers,
CCP Turtlepower // Team Pirate Unicorns
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#244 - 2015-04-30 16:35:14 UTC
Thanks for fixing titles but I'm legit curious who brought up the security issue

This is something I have never ever heard of being brought up
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#245 - 2015-04-30 17:32:30 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
where it was pointed out that having titles publicly viewable limits their effectiveness for actually managing groups of roles.

Name and shame. Name and shame.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#246 - 2015-04-30 17:36:22 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Hey all,

I just want to respond to the feedback regarding the removal of the titles from a characters show info window. This change was done by Five 0 after discussion at the CSM winter summit, where it was pointed out that having titles publicly viewable limits their effectiveness for actually managing groups of roles.

...
CCP Lebowski, On behalf of Five 0

Here's my suggestion..

Allow for the CEO of a corp to set a "scope" for the visibility of Corp Titles. Private would be visible only to those with the rolls to Manage them. Corp wide so anyone in the corp can see them. Alliance wide, again, duh, and lastly Public.


But props on listening and reverting the change promptly :)
Darth Terona
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#247 - 2015-04-30 19:18:19 UTC
Thanks

may I point out, if you directly ask for a group of player to playtest a new feature ( this time being CEO's to check out corp management changes) don't sneak in such a game changer the day of the update.

I was active in the beta and could have pointed out this issue before it went live.

The way you did it made me feel I just wasted my time in beta.

Cheers
Valencia Mariana
Eagle and Lion Corporate Agents
#248 - 2015-04-30 19:31:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Valencia Mariana
Thanks CPP for reverting the titles. I think this is best for the majority of uses. Whoever raised titles at the CSM does have a valid point but a blanket removal of visibility broke more than it fixed. A quick fix could be a toggle if your planning a major overhaul further down the line.

Valencia Mariana The Red Circle Inc.
Marius Labo
Licence To Kill
Mercenary Coalition
#249 - 2015-04-30 19:46:27 UTC
Caldari 5 wrote:
Marius Labo wrote:
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Hey all,

I just want to respond to the feedback regarding the removal of the titles from a characters show info window. This change was done by Five 0 after discussion at the CSM winter summit, where it was pointed out that having titles publicly viewable limits their effectiveness for actually managing groups of roles.

Ultimately we would like to completely separate vanity titles from role management titles, as we believe there's compelling and often different reasons for corporations to want to use both, but this was out of the scope for our corporation work at this time (The wheels of the Sovereignty rework trundle on and wait for no Dev Blink). Therefore we felt that making this small change for the time being would mitigate the concern raised until we could return to Titles and give them the attention that we all agree they need.

However, after reading your feedback, we realise that the unintentional side effect of this is that we have complicated matters for corporations who use this feature for visibility of corp members abilities and responsibilities. Therefore, for the time being we are reverting this change and returning titles to the show info window of anyone who has them. This should be reaching Tranquillity early next week, and will remain this way until we can properly revamp them.

Sorry for the poor communication of this change on our part, we hope this goes some way towards allaying your concerns and explaining our long term intentions for corporate titles.

CCP Lebowski, On behalf of Five 0


It seems like the best solution is to provide a toggle for visibility. I can't see anyone disagreeing with this function.

And there are viable means in place for those who have legitimate sensitive data concerns via a named title assigned to roles. They can assign the roles without using the Title Management function and if the need is there to use the Title Management function by leaving the title with the default "Untitled #" there won't be any visible title (I have confirmed this in-game) so there won't be any intel or sensitive data gleaned by using the Title Management function in this fashion.

The trouble with using "Untitled #" or other obfuscated names is that you need a flaming lookup table just to remember what your titles do. I was so looking forward to finally having HUMAN READABLE TITLE NAMES :( Now excuse me whilst I go back and reset them back to their obfuscated names CryUgh

I think you're missing the point of the majority. The change was drastic and unwanted for most. What should have happened is that it should have been made a toggle feature for visibility. That's the universal solution and something that will satisfy all. The change fairly much disenfranchised those who'd been using the Titles feature as it was originally designed whereas at least there are the viable current ways to keep things "secret". Hopefully CCP will work on implementing the various toggle suggestions. This is what we should all be pushing for. And the bi-product of the sudden change is that it's brought forward great ideas that will work for all.

Recruiting Director

Mercenary Coalition Forums

E-UNI Wiki
Alexis Nightwish
#250 - 2015-04-30 21:02:39 UTC
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:

On another note, please can we have a response to the map debacle.


The map is still being worked on, with probing and scanning being our current top priority. We have not removed the old map, it is still accessible by pressing F10 or using the old map button in the Neocom menu.

Please direct any further feedback on the new map to this thread.

Cheers,
CCP Turtlepower // Team Pirate Unicorns

Please keep the old map available forever!

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#251 - 2015-04-30 22:44:31 UTC
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:

On another note, please can we have a response to the map debacle.


The map is still being worked on, with probing and scanning being our current top priority. We have not removed the old map, it is still accessible by pressing F10 or using the old map button in the Neocom menu.

Please direct any further feedback on the new map to this thread.

Cheers,
CCP Turtlepower // Team Pirate Unicorns

Please keep the old map available forever!


nope thank you. Keep moving or die standing still. QQ people everywhere.
cyboman
My Wormhole Hurts
#252 - 2015-05-01 18:43:47 UTC
Angelos Diablos wrote:
Many of the people I knew in Eve have left the game due to changes similar to this and I myself am almost rebalanced to that point


Stuff canz I have?
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#253 - 2015-05-01 23:15:52 UTC
Just a quick comment on the new map.

I have nothing against the idea, but in its current implementation its much harder to use, lacks much of the functionality of the current map and is easy to get disorientated.

So basically a typical CCP itteration. Start with making it look prettier and maybe try and get it to at most half what it did before.

TL;DR = its really quite bad.
Hra Neuvosto
Party Cat Enterprises
#254 - 2015-05-02 22:54:24 UTC
I support the only true Empress of the Amarr Empire: Her Majesty Jamyl Sarum. Please let me show my devotion in the future CCP, don't take away my Sarum Machariel, Redeemer and Chimera and others.
Kanidatari
Bound And Determined
#255 - 2015-05-03 08:19:08 UTC
Chequrself wrote:
PATCH FEEDBACK - I am sorry but I feel totally screwed by the non permanent (30 Day Expiry) on skins like Guristas Cormorant and Thukka Tribe Edition Thrasher. When I bought these ships there were permanently painted and I paid a premium price for them with the understanding that if I got them blown up they were gone. The flip side of that was that if I didn't get them blown up I had them forever. I paid a premium for the later. I feel pants down bent over a barrel screwed over.

I feel like I walked into a Ferrari dealer paid for a Ferrari, took it home, loved it, washed it, drove it with pure abandon, loved it. Then in the middle of the night Dealer Franchise drove round to my place and swapped my beloved Ferrari with a Hyundai and tried to calm me by saying but it's ok because you can have as many accidents as you like and we will replace it for you .... for the next 30 days. Sorry but I want my freaken Ferrari back thanks.

And to be honest, this argument doesn't even hold water cause guess what, it's only a certain type of Ferrari we are doing this with. All other Ferrari owners can keep their Ferrari permanently, go on their merry AND no matter how many times they get blown up we will replace it for them.

SCOWLS AND UNHAPPY FACES

NOT HAPPY CCP


I soo feal the same! I did not go all the way as you did, but wow this pach realy did beat me up for my expectations for my gameplay, the market, the gatherers and peaolpe willing to share there beutiful ship with another skin. This patch did realy devistate me to the pont that im comsidering leaving eve.
Feals like they didnt learn from Incarnia, Adding stuff is good, but replacing can be nd in this case is, realy realy bad.
Kanidatari
Bound And Determined
#256 - 2015-05-03 11:41:50 UTC
Lacaedaeimon Artus wrote:
Thoughts:


SKINS:
*Make the pre-patch skins as permanent as they were pre-patch. It will make them more of a commodity and useful for those who actually spent ISK/time trying to acquire them.
*Have them show on Killmails. We get to see pod bling, would be nice to get ship bling too.


I do support this entierly as in a "okey" to resolution to this issue.
Sequester Risalo
German Corps of Engineers 17
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#257 - 2015-05-04 08:36:02 UTC
There are enough comments on the opportunity system. However, I'm wondering what happened to the old starter missions.

The patchnotes state nothing regarding them. A note in the Missions section would be appropriate. I mean when you report the correction oif a typo in 'Right to Rule' why not reporting that you removed an entire mission set. I found it in the dev blogs, but still.

Further I would like to know why these were not properly replaced. Doing the old starter missions provided newbros with a nice set of t1 ships. Now I started a new alt and have a hard time supporting him on his own. Maybe I'm unimaginative but I resorted to mining with a rookie ship until I could afford a venture and then continue mining until I had a few millions. Missions (other than distribution) are not really an option in a rookie ship with civilian equipment.

Are there opportunities which give you ships or equipment?
bruce Iee
Syndicate Society
#258 - 2015-05-04 16:25:03 UTC
Marius Labo wrote:
Uncle Pilot wrote:
Marius Labo wrote:
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Hey all,

I just want to respond to the feedback regarding the removal of the titles from a characters show info window. This change was done by Five 0 after discussion at the CSM winter summit, where it was pointed out that having titles publicly viewable limits their effectiveness for actually managing groups of roles.

Ultimately we would like to completely separate vanity titles from role management titles, as we believe there's compelling and often different reasons for corporations to want to use both, but this was out of the scope for our corporation work at this time (The wheels of the Sovereignty rework trundle on and wait for no Dev Blink). Therefore we felt that making this small change for the time being would mitigate the concern raised until we could return to Titles and give them the attention that we all agree they need.

However, after reading your feedback, we realise that the unintentional side effect of this is that we have complicated matters for corporations who use this feature for visibility of corp members abilities and responsibilities. Therefore, for the time being we are reverting this change and returning titles to the show info window of anyone who has them. This should be reaching Tranquillity early next week, and will remain this way until we can properly revamp them.

Sorry for the poor communication of this change on our part, we hope this goes some way towards allaying your concerns and explaining our long term intentions for corporate titles.

CCP Lebowski, On behalf of Five 0


It seems like the best solution is to provide a toggle for visibility. I can't see anyone disagreeing with this function.

And there are viable means in place for those who have legitimate sensitive data concerns via a named title assigned to roles. They can assign the roles without using the Title Management function and if the need is there to use the Title Management function by leaving the title with the default "Untitled #" there won't be any visible title (I have confirmed this in-game) so there won't be any intel or sensitive data gleaned by using the Title Management function in this fashion.


An even better solution is to just give us a decent interface to award (colored) vanity titles and then a toggle for roles to be publicly displayed or not.

Yes, and I've been suggesting similar and supportive of this and similar suggestions.


Correct me if I am wrong but when will this reversion take place? I think I have not seen the update with this recent patch.
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
B.S.I.
#259 - 2015-05-04 18:45:06 UTC
Sequester Risalo wrote:
There are enough comments on the opportunity system. However, I'm wondering what happened to the old starter missions.

The patchnotes state nothing regarding them. A note in the Missions section would be appropriate. I mean when you report the correction oif a typo in 'Right to Rule' why not reporting that you removed an entire mission set. I found it in the dev blogs, but still.

Further I would like to know why these were not properly replaced. Doing the old starter missions provided newbros with a nice set of t1 ships. Now I started a new alt and have a hard time supporting him on his own. Maybe I'm unimaginative but I resorted to mining with a rookie ship until I could afford a venture and then continue mining until I had a few millions. Missions (other than distribution) are not really an option in a rookie ship with civilian equipment.

Are there opportunities which give you ships or equipment?


I believe the "starter" missions are exactly where they've been. They are labelled "Career Agents", and you can find them using the "Agent Finder" in the Agents section of any station (or in your captain's quarters). Just filter your search for "Career".

Evelopedia: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Career_Agents
Sequester Risalo
German Corps of Engineers 17
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#260 - 2015-05-04 18:47:05 UTC
Thank you. I will do so.