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30 Day SKIN License
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2015-04-29 20:42:39 UTC
Nalia White wrote:
yeah it really baffles me that they didn't handle skins like blueprints with a number of uses on them... even the permanent ones...

ccp must have a longterm plan because this **** makes no sense at all in the current state...

personaly i don't give a **** about skins but yeah, it's stupid :)

The reason I think is pretty obvious. The current system seems designed to eliminate any factor that would keep you from using a skinned ship in a way you wouldn't an unskinned ship. By making the investment for a skin a single permanent expense we are able to actually treat them like the ships the go on should be treated, largely cheap, disposable workhorses and welp fodder, while still keeping the skinning a viable and sustainable option.

Needing to replenish upon loss walks us right back into hangar ship spinning being the primary use for skinned ships. This same issue applies to the timed skins. People being reluctant to undock them or being cautious with them reduces value over time as they are never lost and demand never refreshes.

All of this combines to make accusations of greed rather odd as CCP has demonstrated willingness to allow their cash skin market to saturate and whither over time save new players in the game while taking steps to preserve the in game drop market that doesn't necessarily help their real world bottom line.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#62 - 2015-04-29 21:03:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
skins go on ships, and don't get locked away in a broom closet

Not necessarily so, as there's no way to currently uninstall a permanent activated SKIN. So once you install any of the uber-rare and uber-expensive SKINs, it's mated to that character for the indefinite future. The surest way to ensure your SKINs continue to increase in both rarity and value is to in fact lock them away in a broom closet.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2015-04-29 21:13:42 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
skins go on ships, and don't get locked away in a broom closet

Not necessarily so, as there's no way to currently uninstall a permanent activated SKIN. So once you install any of the uber-rare and uber-expensive SKINs, it's mated to that character for the indefinite future. The surest way to ensure your SKINs continue to increase in both rarity and value is to in fact lock them away in a broom closet.

Skins yes, ships no. Thus now if you want the skin for it's use you have that luxury rather than being effectively mandated to only having it as a hangar queen. Grated once you do so the isk value of the skin itself is lost forever, but while it's a decision that can't be undone, it's also a decision which allows greater use than the prior system allowed.
Bonezay
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2015-04-29 22:18:46 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I know what we can call players who have it all up in their HEADS that SKINs are so important. P


I see what you did there!
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#65 - 2015-04-29 23:35:39 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
That was more a case of massive amounts of time and money had been dedicated to developing a feature that added no value to the game, was comically incomplete, negatively affected the performance of the game and you couldn't turn it off. Pricing of the NEX store was dumb because it indicated the massive disconnect between CCP and the player base.

Riots ensued because players were outraged because CCP had squandered their money developing things nobody cared about and not even doing it well while totally disregarding massive problems with existing features and failing to even care about what the players had to say about it.



In other words, EvE players turned out to be exactly the same bunch of whiny, self-absorbed, entitled, brats that we accuse the players of all other MMOs of being.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Asura Vajrarupa
Doomheim
#66 - 2015-04-30 01:04:08 UTC
Bachari Tanner wrote:
how come everyone went so mad over ccp with micro transactions before but now this is in everyones like 'yep, give skins, take money'.


Simple:

Players want ship oriented stuff. It was never about the clothes being over priced, or Incarna being a train wreck. It was about focus not being on ships. CCP's only mistake was in thinking our characters were the Barbies we wanted to dress up. Turns out our barbies are actually the space ships. Now that they know this, expect Malibu Dominix soon.

Ignorance is the cause of suffering.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2015-04-30 01:47:34 UTC
All the skins I actually like (read serpentis) ended up as 30 day. =( I guess I get three months of serpentis catalysts before I never see them again.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2015-04-30 02:54:22 UTC
Glathull wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
That was more a case of massive amounts of time and money had been dedicated to developing a feature that added no value to the game, was comically incomplete, negatively affected the performance of the game and you couldn't turn it off. Pricing of the NEX store was dumb because it indicated the massive disconnect between CCP and the player base.

Riots ensued because players were outraged because CCP had squandered their money developing things nobody cared about and not even doing it well while totally disregarding massive problems with existing features and failing to even care about what the players had to say about it.



In other words, EvE players turned out to be exactly the same bunch of whiny, self-absorbed, entitled, brats that we accuse the players of all other MMOs of being.

No, the issue was CCP spent over a year making a system of no added value to gameplay at all. Now this would have been fine, except that's ALL THEY DID. During that time there was virtually no additions or improvements to gameplay. THAT is what pissed everyone off.

Now this time, they again added SKIN's, of no real gameplay value, but it's not the Only thing they have been doing the past few months. There's been lots of fixes, new features, balances, etc. We might not agree with all the changes, but no one can argue CCP was just working on vanity and ignoring the actual game like they did last time.
Ciba Lexlulu
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#69 - 2015-04-30 04:44:57 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I really dislike that my previously permanent, unusual faction ship skins have now become a pointless temporary thing. I generally don't get gow.time limited ship skins are meant to make sense at all.


It is a hint from CCP that EvE is a pvp game full of risk. Your ship should not live beyond its 30th days birthday.Lol
Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#70 - 2015-04-30 09:08:50 UTC
Why do you think they don't sell you the bowling shoes? Thinkaboutit.

There just isn't anything that can be said!
Rich Uncle PennyBags
EVE Online Monopoly
#71 - 2015-04-30 09:14:43 UTC
For people who didn't read the devblog.

Skins that are obtained by item drops from NPCs are 30 days.

This is to keep supply/demand for those skins.

None of the skins you can buy have a time limit.

"Skin blueprints that drop in game will become time-limited SKINs that last 30 days once activated."
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/ship-customization-time-to-show-some-skin/

Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#72 - 2015-04-30 09:32:57 UTC
DaReaper wrote:

Its actually more complicated then this.

You had an enivorment where a **** storm was brewing. It was not one single factor. Because honestly, if things had not come together at that time there would of been no riots (i keep pointing this.. i think i just need to write a blog post or some crap and just link it)

Anyway, i was semi here and semi not at that time, wife had my son, so i researched most of this, which you know kids these days have issues doing i guess.

The riots had more going on then the monicles, MT, and $1k pants. These were just, as stated icing. You had the following factors:

1) Incarnia, which took about 3-5 years to build (first shown at ff07 came out in 11) it was described as one way for years, and if you look up the ambulation project it was amazing. Unfortunatly, what we got was a half assed feature that melted video cards and did not really add anything to eve. This would of been fine, and people would of been like "whatever" i mean we have delt with half assed features for years (pi, FW, incrusions, pos, constalation sov, dominion sov, etc) all part of old CCP, all half assed as they moved on to new shiney. So this alone we would of moved off from.

But add in...

2) Overly expensive microtranactions for stuff that has no cool factor. Sure some people can play space barbie if they want, and that was all fine and dandy. The $70 monicles would not of been an issue, none of incarnia or NES would of been an issue... but then you add in the next set...

3) The stagnation and half assedness of a lot of eve features. As i said, 5 years of devlopment for incarnia, Dust being made, WoD being made. People saw these other things coming, saw incarnia drop and looked at the state of the game and went 'wait... wait.. what?' The last good expantion was apocacryto. Dominon was half assed and broken, the one after (before incarnia) was also broken. Then incarnia drops.. with.. what? no space game play or repairs? Now you start having people questioning CCP path, vision, and wondering with dust coming, and WoD being made.. do we matter anymore?

So these three alone, people would of shurgged. Another ****** incomplete space expnation fine. Incarnia, on its own fine. MT's added after incarnia or on its own, fine. All three? Well now people start wondering WTF is ccp doing ant thinking. Then you add on the final staw...

4) Greed is good. Someone in CCP leaked an internal memo. Supposidly one of many, but this one stated there idea to add gold ammo, new ships that you can only get from NES and for Aurum. Basicly a 'why don;t we go p2w? we can make $$$ lets be greedy' As i said, this alone would not of caused alot of issues. But would of make people question, might of brought on a thread naught, but this and with the monicals, eve negelect, and a ****** expantion... was like throwing a moltiof cocktail on an already dry, ready to burst feild.

All 4... plus ccp not calming things down quickly, and the years of frustration, annoyance, and wondering WTF is ccp doing, caused the player base to explode.

It was not incarnia, mt, greed is good, or neglect... i twas all 4, at once.

Why are people not caring about MT now? because eve, the space game, is getting new stuff. The dev time is not wasted. And its really optional. People felt liked too and cheated in the riots. that was not a good place for ccp to be.

If this had not happened, if ccp had fixed one of the three, we might have WiS complete... but they didn't. And as i said before, i fully believe it is time to finish WiS and make it something. or rip it from the game.

But there ya go.


I don't normally full-quote long posts, but this is the answer why ship skins are acceptable to those of use who rioted. At the time £1000 jeans were waved at us as the culmination of years of EvE getting ignored. Alone, it would just have been another instance of CCP not getting it, but everything else combined to provide a perfect storm of CCP neglect, detachment, and obliviousness. It was half-assed, and it was insulting, and wasn't even relevant to any player who wanted to play spaceships. Now skins is space-ship relevant, and it didn't cost us years of neglect to get them - hell, the two biggest issues that people cried out about during the riot, the state of dominion sov and POSes, are being actively worked on right now, alongside skins. So why would we complain, we are getting what the rioters asked for?
Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#73 - 2015-04-30 09:58:56 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
$30 freaking Merlin.... lmao

Only thing i can think of is that in 2010 EvE was different.
In the years since tons more WoW refugees flooded in.
These new-newbros are not the same community that raged in 2010.

If you try to sell $1000 jeans, get laughed and raged at, yet spend the next 5years recruiting WoW refugees into your game then sell $30 Merlins to them, i guess ccp wins
You know...it's VERY difficult for me to....umm.... AGREE with you! Cool

There just isn't anything that can be said!
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#74 - 2015-04-30 10:10:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen
Varrgas Arthurus wrote:
Now i have to pay around 35M each 30 days to be able to play with the blood raider Prophecy..


Is that really unreasonable when you think of it though? Prices are probably on the high-side now as speculators are at work, they'll probably settle a bit less in time. Battlecruiser permanent skins run between 1100-4300 AUR, which is between half and one-and-a-half PLEX, so 400-1200 isk or there abouts. So your 30-day skin is really between a 10th to a 40th of what a permanent skin costs. For the same money as a higher end permanent skin (and lets be fair, the desirability of pirate skins would have put them at the higher end) you can buy 3 1/2 years of use-time (more if the price drops), and you don't even have to buy that all at once. Probably fair when you think about it.

I'm not saying you don't have a legitimate complaint, owners of the skins pre-conversion has certainly been screwed compared to holders of ones which aren't limited-time, but you win some you lose some, loot-drop skins definitely had to be handled differently to avoid market saturation. Personally, I would have thought a "limited run" skin where "charges" are lost by ship lost would have been the obvious (and more logical) solution. But maybe this just isn't possible in how its been programmed (maybe they can't determine at time of loss what skin you are wearing, so you might end up losing a charge off every limited-run skin for the ship you are flying, even if you aren't in it).
Leannor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#75 - 2015-04-30 12:10:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Leannor
Solecist Project wrote:
Leannor wrote:
Seems to be a desire to make skins a consumable (much like ammo, that you use up and need replacing) to create a continous market.

Personally, I have no idea why anyone would want to have that hassle. But hey, guess there's enough people out there that want to pimp their ship every month.

You understand that permanent skins exist as well?



Yup. I was replying to the OP, who was tal;king about the temporary skins. Big smile

"Lykouleon wrote:

STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"
Varrgas Arthurus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#76 - 2015-04-30 14:03:13 UTC
[quote=Aralyn Cormallen]

Is that really unreasonable when you think of it though? /quote]

Are you blind ? idiot ? never played EvE ? or just never play a game in your life for not understand ?

Before i have nothing to pay, nothing at all untill i have the ship, and now i must pay. Did you think the price will be lower than beffore ? of course not ! because now it is 30 days limited.

Why did i have to pay for something free before ? Why did i have to sufer of speculation now ?

Did you understand what is "Supply and demand" in business ?

Before there is no real problem with this item because there is only some people who are interested with those BC / Destroyer pirate skined ship. And the Skin isn't really easy to farm, so there is many offer on the market. And people who want play with or just have it for collection buyed one and that over, or buy an other if destroyed (that player choise if he want take risk of loosing this ship or not and not interesting in the subject).

But now, 1st, there is not the same offer because all skined ship are now 30Days limited, that make everything different, and 2nd, there is now mush more people interested buy this skin, and not enought for all even if that an in game drop.

So the price will gow again and again like a Quafe megathron, and i doesn't want pay 1B for 30 Day. You can think i am wrong, but take a look of the history price for the ship before the patch, and look the evolution of the SKINs, and the lower offer than before.

30 Day limited Skin are usless, that just like burn money.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#77 - 2015-04-30 14:29:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen
Varrgas Arthurus wrote:

Are you blind ? idiot ? never played EvE ? or just never play a game in your life for not understand ?
Ahh, reasoned discourse Lol
Quote:

Did you understand what is "Supply and demand" in business ?

...

So the price will gow again and again like a Quafe megathron, and i doesn't want pay 1B for 30 Day. You can think i am wrong, but take a look of the history price for the ship before the patch, and look the evolution of the SKINs, and the lower offer than before.

30 Day limited Skin are usless, that just like burn money.
Seems more so than you do. If 30 day skins are "useless", their market price will drop, then you can stock up in the lull.

As I said, I'm not unsympathetic to your problem, but drop-based skins had to do something different. If they were just made permanent, they would rapidly become not worth wiping your backside on, as supply would eventually outstrip player population. Yes, it does suck for those who like the skin, and one suggestion I would be making in your position is to introduce permanent versions of the same skin purchasable for Aur, so the dedicated guy who wants to forever fly that skin can buy the permanent version, and people who only want to dabble (or don't want the cost of a permanent skin) can trade in the time-limited drops. But just raging at the injustice isn't going to get you anywhere.
Solecist Project
#78 - 2015-04-30 14:32:53 UTC
Or, like, actually do something and go find them yourself.

People act like they deserve anything ... childish.

If prices bother anyone, you're all free to save your money ...
... or go hunt down the skins yourselves.


Sheesh ... so many brats.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#79 - 2015-04-30 14:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Evi Polevhia
ITT: People not understanding Pirate skin ships are in game drops and not bought with AUR. Also people assuming recent patch prices will remain.

Pirate skins pre Mosaic were cheap. Now, that exact same bpc is now a SKIN that means you can blow up that Blood Raider Coercer a thousand times in a month and that's suddenly a downgrade to you guys? The bpcs used to be cheap because no one gave a **** about them. And once the hype wears off the prices will once again drop and Blood Raider/Serp/whatever fleets will be a novelty again just like they were.

Patch is new, market is unstable, calm your ****.

Edit: Tons of Mordu besieged sites in FW lowsec. Go run them if you want skins. Most locals don't because it's a waste of our time.