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So, what do you guys think about watch lists?

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Humang
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#201 - 2015-04-29 21:55:46 UTC
Haven't read the entire thread so take this with a grain of salt.

But what about only having the WL update that someone is online/offline if you are in the same system that they are currently in / logged off in.

IE.
You can't be on the other side of the galaxy to see that someone just logged in and then rush over to their system to gank. However if you are actively in system, you know if they are online or not, regardless if you even saw them at all in the first place.

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Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2015-04-30 11:43:32 UTC
I'm not sure I understand the point about removing watchlists.

Intel = where a pilot is and what is he flying.

Watchlists do not give that intel. To gather it, you still have to get eyes on the pilot (while he's online).


After he has logged off, the moment he logs back on he'll naturally be in the same place in the same ship. Makes sense that you get this intel, since you already had it in the first place.

After that, you don't get anymore intel unless, again, you get eyes on him.


So what's the problem, exactly?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#203 - 2015-04-30 15:20:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Iowa Banshee
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
I'm not sure I understand the point about removing watchlists.

Intel = where a pilot is and what is he flying.

Watchlists do not give that intel. To gather it, you still have to get eyes on the pilot (while he's online).


After he has logged off, the moment he logs back on he'll naturally be in the same place in the same ship. Makes sense that you get this intel, since you already had it in the first place.

After that, you don't get anymore intel unless, again, you get eyes on him.


So what's the problem, exactly?



Well you see......

The watch-list can tell you when the pilot and friends are online.
If you cross them off an also online list you can work out his alts - just in case you prefer to attack an indy toon.

When you are on an ALT the watch-list can tell you its time to stop doing what you are doing and log into another toon 1/2 way across the universe" - because "eyes on intel" doesn't have to be the same toon eyes and it has serious range.

Then when your sleek Tengu tackles a lone ratting Raven, grinding them down to destruction you can suddenly bug out of a winning fight because the watch-list has told you his friends have just come online and nothing spoils a good PVE gank more than a Lachesis, Cloaky Proteus and a couple of ECM Rooks turning up on grid.

Thanks for saving my ass with all that free intel Magical Watch-List Fairy


IMO the worse thing about the watch list is that it promotes cautious game play - I'd better not initiate this PVP 'cause I magically know he has friends online.
Chibi Katana
Division 13
#204 - 2015-04-30 15:57:22 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Then when your sleek Tengu tackles a lone ratting Raven

Right after you've added the pilot's entire corp to watchlist because that's what you do before a lone BS gank, right?

Just incase his friends login?

Fanciful examples tbh.

Who bumped this thread anyway. Roll

愛 cнιвιĸυ
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#205 - 2015-04-30 16:01:03 UTC
Chibi Katana wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Then when your sleek Tengu tackles a lone ratting Raven

Right after you've added the pilot's entire corp to watchlist because that's what you do before a lone BS gank, right?Roll


Can't imagine anyone adds a whole corp. Quick look over zkill gives good odds to catch their active pvpers though, that's just 5-10 guys to add. Would be cool though if you could right click a label and *add/remove all contacts to/from watchlist*.
Chibi Katana
Division 13
#206 - 2015-04-30 16:06:10 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Chibi Katana wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Then when your sleek Tengu tackles a lone ratting Raven

Right after you've added the pilot's entire corp to watchlist because that's what you do before a lone BS gank, right?Roll


Can't imagine anyone adds a whole corp. Quick look over zkill gives good odds to catch their active pvpers though, that's just 5-10 guys to add.

Still no less fanciful though. Who actually does that?

Sure, see a Raven on scan, you locate him, nothing else is on Dscan, while you're setting up your tackle you're having a quick look at his killboard - yep he's a ratter or whatever, dies a lot, got a couple kills. That's all I'd need to know and enough time wasted being "risk averse". I wouldn't bother sitting there examining each kill, seeing each pilot he/she flies with, checking their PVP activity too, copy/paste names and start watchlisting.

I'd just tackle the ******* Raven. What?

愛 cнιвιĸυ
Kensa Katana
Division 13
#207 - 2015-04-30 16:51:50 UTC
Chibi Katana wrote:
I'd just tackle the ******* Raven. What?


I'd help you, but I only have 1m SP.

Digital world problems.

Have fun dying to the Raven in your Reaper.

愛 ĸenѕarυ
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2015-04-30 17:01:15 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
you can suddenly bug out of a winning fight because the watch-list has told you his friends have just come online and nothing spoils a good PVE gank more than a Lachesis, Cloaky Proteus and a couple of ECM Rooks turning up on grid.
So basically you're saying that watchlists help you get LESS kills, because your playstyle involves ganking lone pilots only if you're sure that all their known friends are offline.

Fascinating!

Are you sure the watchlist is the problem?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#209 - 2015-04-30 18:13:54 UTC
Chibi Katana wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Chibi Katana wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Then when your sleek Tengu tackles a lone ratting Raven

Right after you've added the pilot's entire corp to watchlist because that's what you do before a lone BS gank, right?Roll


Can't imagine anyone adds a whole corp. Quick look over zkill gives good odds to catch their active pvpers though, that's just 5-10 guys to add.

Still no less fanciful though. Who actually does that?

Sure, see a Raven on scan, you locate him, nothing else is on Dscan, while you're setting up your tackle you're having a quick look at his killboard - yep he's a ratter or whatever, dies a lot, got a couple kills. That's all I'd need to know and enough time wasted being "risk averse". I wouldn't bother sitting there examining each kill, seeing each pilot he/she flies with, checking their PVP activity too, copy/paste names and start watchlisting.

I'd just tackle the ******* Raven. What?



- LOL - See a Raven on d-scan ?
How the crap would you see them on D-Scan. Your market trader cannot D-Scan inside a Station - You have to wait for the magical watch list fairy to give you the free intel before swapping alts to begin D-Scanning.

Does trading PVP count as PVP?
The opposite could happpen you could be scanning a system somewhere and the magical watch list fairy could give you more free intel telling you to log into a trader ALT to undercut prices on a seller who just logged off.




Candi LeMew
Division 13
#210 - 2015-04-30 18:21:34 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
- LOL - See a Raven on d-scan ?
How the crap would you see them on D-Scan. Your market trader cannot D-Scan inside a Station - You have to wait for the magical watch list fairy to give you the free intel before swapping alts to begin D-Scanning.

Does trading PVP count as PVP?
The opposite could happpen you could be scanning a system somewhere and the magical watch list fairy could give you more free intel telling you to log into a trader ALT to undercut prices on a seller who just logged off.


Because I'd be in system with it.

Trading? Trading's for poors.

You sound awfully knowledgeable about the topic though.

*raises eyebrow*

🍌

Remember... in Anoikis Bob Is Always Watching...

"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#211 - 2015-04-30 18:26:06 UTC
Candi LeMew wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
- LOL - See a Raven on d-scan ?
How the crap would you see them on D-Scan. Your market trader cannot D-Scan inside a Station - You have to wait for the magical watch list fairy to give you the free intel before swapping alts to begin D-Scanning.

Does trading PVP count as PVP?
The opposite could happpen you could be scanning a system somewhere and the magical watch list fairy could give you more free intel telling you to log into a trader ALT to undercut prices on a seller who just logged off.


Because I'd be in system with it.

Trading? Trading's for poors.

You sound awfully knowledgeable about the topic though.

*raises eyebrow*


Ah... I see
You would be scanning in system gathering info you have to work for and not using the cheat - so - Get rid of it then?
Candi LeMew
Division 13
#212 - 2015-04-30 18:27:41 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Ah... I see
You would be scanning in system gathering info you have to work for and not using the cheat - so - Get rid of it then?

What are you even talking about?

How is a watchlist going to tell me there's a Raven ratting in an anom near planet IV?

🍌

Remember... in Anoikis Bob Is Always Watching...

"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#213 - 2015-04-30 18:31:02 UTC
Candi LeMew wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Ah... I see
You would be scanning in system gathering info you have to work for and not using the cheat - so - Get rid of it then?

What are you even talking about?

How is a watchlist going to tell me there's a Raven ratting in an anom near planet IV?



It's not - so - Get rid of it then?
Candi LeMew
Division 13
#214 - 2015-04-30 18:33:26 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Candi LeMew wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Ah... I see
You would be scanning in system gathering info you have to work for and not using the cheat - so - Get rid of it then?

What are you even talking about?

How is a watchlist going to tell me there's a Raven ratting in an anom near planet IV?



It's not - so - Get rid of it then?

No, there's nothing wrong with the watchlist.

And this thread should be allowed to die.

🍌

Remember... in Anoikis Bob Is Always Watching...

"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#215 - 2015-04-30 18:41:10 UTC
Yes, there's lots wrong with the watchlist.

And this thread should be allowed to die.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#216 - 2015-05-14 01:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Fozzie talked about this on the EN24 podcast:

- Watchlists have been on the change list for a while.
- Not very happy with the use of watchlist to see when enemies are offline/online.
- Might incorporate the online/offline function into locater agents.
- A checkbox to mutually allow watching would be good because seeing when friends are online is a valuable feature.

@29 min https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/en24podcast/Episode009.mp3

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#217 - 2015-05-14 12:06:37 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Fozzie talked about this on the EN24 podcast:

- Watchlists have been on the change list for a while.
- Not very happy with the use of watchlist to see when enemies are offline/online.
- Might incorporate the online/offline function into locater agents.
- A checkbox to mutually allow watching would be good because seeing when friends are online is a valuable feature.

@19 min https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/en24podcast/Episode009.mp3


To be fair the choices to deal with watchlists are either restrictive or enhancing QoL (watchlisting multiple people at once)
TurboX3
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#218 - 2015-05-14 12:10:12 UTC
Love watchlists for follow scrubs & Super pilots... coming to a wormhole nearby to despawn sites!
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#219 - 2015-05-19 07:58:00 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Perfect, free intel is bad. Watchlists are OP. There is a good argument for them in a social context but that could be achieved by an approval mechanism from the other person.

See this thread for more: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=386367


Isn't it just hilarious that after all this, after all the sneering contempt and jokes at my expense we are now seeing, confirmed by the devs themselves

local being nerfed and turned in to a benefit for the owners of that space

and from what I hear Fozzie wants to get rid of watchlisting.

So keep laughing you pestilent chucklefucks look at who has caused the game to change at a fundamental level *yet again*.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#220 - 2015-05-20 00:34:50 UTC
Are you some kind of Nostradamus In Space or something? Wow, man.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~