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[Incursions] HS and LS Specific
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Mario Putzo
#1 - 2015-04-30 06:08:36 UTC
Incursions should disrupt security features within the areas they have control.

Includes:

CONCORD
Empire Navies
Gate Guns
Station Guns

Reason:
First thing an entity who is invading an area would do is disrupt the local defenses to facilitate their ability to proceed with operations. Since NPCs can not attack each other, the next best possibility is to just disable these features system wide. Sanshas for example would attack Concord and the Empire Navies on site, they would disable gate guns and station guns to better allow their ships freedom of access in the system.

Intended Result:
Allow for more immersive game play in these locations. Specifically in HS. Creates a PVP friendly area where groups of people can brawl each other if they desire. In Lowsec it allows for more smaller gang conflict to take place near stations and on gates, instead of camping the FW buttons.

Security features which will remain:
All "Crimewatch" Flagging.
All Security Status penalties.

That is all.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#2 - 2015-04-30 06:28:07 UTC
Ofcourse then we reach the point where i (and i run ALOT of incursions and have FCed for Warp to Me) ask you why you're getting your pvp in my pve?

I realise thats vile heresy to some people, but i actually kinda LIKE the highsec incursioning community when ISN or DIN doesnt have their panties in a twist and goes on a ragepopping spree...

And while i LIKE PVP i like it when its to achieve something... Not just PVP for its own sake, i enjoy those fights where you're 15 guys trying to get a goal. 15 guys defending their incoming wormhole from someone who rolled into them, those 15 guys have a REASON to stand their ground. Not just "Imma gonna go to provi (or Uedama why fly further then you need to) and blow up some random miners because i am bored".

But this is personal, also i should expect i am not the only one who would not like this change, and especially since what you want is a "gank my expensive incursion ship for free" zone around where i need my incursion ship to be if i want to be able to play MY EVE kindly go play somewhere else and keep your eve from interfering overly much with mine. Our eve's are different AND THAT IS WHY EVE IS GREAT.
Madd Adda
#3 - 2015-04-30 06:30:45 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Incursions should disrupt security features within the areas they have control.

Includes:

CONCORD
Empire Navies
Gate Guns
Station Guns

Reason:
First thing an entity who is invading an area would do is disrupt the local defenses to facilitate their ability to proceed with operations. Since NPCs can not attack each other, the next best possibility is to just disable these features system wide. Sanshas for example would attack Concord and the Empire Navies on site, they would disable gate guns and station guns to better allow their ships freedom of access in the system.

Intended Result:
Allow for more immersive game play in these locations. Specifically in HS. Creates a PVP friendly area where groups of people can brawl each other if they desire. In Lowsec it allows for more smaller gang conflict to take place near stations and on gates, instead of camping the FW buttons.

Security features which will remain:
All "Crimewatch" Flagging.
All Security Status penalties.

That is all.



in other words, make high sec into low sec? no thank you, high sec is high sec for a reason.

Carebear extraordinaire
Mario Putzo
#4 - 2015-04-30 06:34:27 UTC
I don't think Ganking an incursion fleet is realistically possible to be honest. Sure some folks might try and attack one, but they are essentially geared up for PVP anyway, with all the Logi they have on field, how the ships themselves are fitted. It would take an equally impressive fleet to fight that. More over the size of the incurssion community would require quite an investment of pilots from the likes of CODE. or Marmite, if they were to work together to secure systems before hand.
elise densi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2015-04-30 06:34:38 UTC
if all these incursions nerf ideas would come true the incursions systems will end up in nullsec ones with the incursions runners them self simply stop running and pvpers camping gates insided the nullsec zone is that what u want?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#6 - 2015-04-30 06:35:41 UTC
For me this would be a LESS immersive experience. As if someone is invading there should be a massive focus of Concord/Empires into that particular area.

So for the sake of immersion Incursions RAISE the sec status of an area in low sec or high sec by 0.2 at least to reflect the increased attendance and vigilance in the constellation and additionally anyone attacked by incursion rats including inside sites gets local navy spawns to help protect them.....

I.E. This is nothing to do with immersion, this is just a 'I want easy kills' request.
Mario Putzo
#7 - 2015-04-30 06:36:02 UTC
Madd Adda wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Incursions should disrupt security features within the areas they have control.

Includes:

CONCORD
Empire Navies
Gate Guns
Station Guns

Reason:
First thing an entity who is invading an area would do is disrupt the local defenses to facilitate their ability to proceed with operations. Since NPCs can not attack each other, the next best possibility is to just disable these features system wide. Sanshas for example would attack Concord and the Empire Navies on site, they would disable gate guns and station guns to better allow their ships freedom of access in the system.

Intended Result:
Allow for more immersive game play in these locations. Specifically in HS. Creates a PVP friendly area where groups of people can brawl each other if they desire. In Lowsec it allows for more smaller gang conflict to take place near stations and on gates, instead of camping the FW buttons.

Security features which will remain:
All "Crimewatch" Flagging.
All Security Status penalties.

That is all.



in other words, make high sec into low sec? no thank you, high sec is high sec for a reason.


Correct, but when Sanshas control a system, it is no longer being controlled by Empire forces, it is in fact under the control of of a Pirate Warlord. Thus the HS rules should not apply, it should enter essentially a lawless state just on principle.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#8 - 2015-04-30 06:38:15 UTC
CONCORD are not Empire forces.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
elise densi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2015-04-30 06:39:11 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Madd Adda wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Incursions should disrupt security features within the areas they have control.

Includes:

CONCORD
Empire Navies
Gate Guns
Station Guns

Reason:
First thing an entity who is invading an area would do is disrupt the local defenses to facilitate their ability to proceed with operations. Since NPCs can not attack each other, the next best possibility is to just disable these features system wide. Sanshas for example would attack Concord and the Empire Navies on site, they would disable gate guns and station guns to better allow their ships freedom of access in the system.

Intended Result:
Allow for more immersive game play in these locations. Specifically in HS. Creates a PVP friendly area where groups of people can brawl each other if they desire. In Lowsec it allows for more smaller gang conflict to take place near stations and on gates, instead of camping the FW buttons.

Security features which will remain:
All "Crimewatch" Flagging.
All Security Status penalties.

That is all.



in other words, make high sec into low sec? no thank you, high sec is high sec for a reason.


Correct, but when Sanshas control a system, it is no longer being controlled by Empire forces, it is in fact under the control of of a Pirate Warlord. Thus the HS rules should not apply, it should enter essentially a lawless state just on principle.


so u still mean making a former highsec system into a lowsec system meanting destroying the entire incursion content couse ppl aint gonna risk multi bilion ships to lowsec just to loose against a blob of tornados or taloses
Mario Putzo
#10 - 2015-04-30 06:41:09 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
For me this would be a LESS immersive experience. As if someone is invading there should be a massive focus of Concord/Empires into that particular area.

So for the sake of immersion Incursions RAISE the sec status of an area in low sec or high sec by 0.2 at least to reflect the increased attendance and vigilance in the constellation and additionally anyone attacked by incursion rats including inside sites gets local navy spawns to help protect them.....

I.E. This is nothing to do with immersion, this is just a 'I want easy kills' request.


Im not sure if you have ever actually tried to kill a faction fit battleship with 8-10 T2 Logi repping it. To claim these are "easy kills" is very naive. Not only do they have sizeable buffer and resist, they are also being fed 36-40 Remote Reps, that is quite a lot of EHP to go through.

I understand the worry, but you folks seem to think having 30 BS and 10Logi is somehow easy pickings, and that is just one fleet of Incursion runners, not including the sizeable community capable of working together to ensure they can all run in peace and quiet. You are grossly misrepresenting mechanics of the game.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#11 - 2015-04-30 06:43:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
As far as I know, people run Vanguard sites with 10 people max., 7-8 DPS and 2-3 logi. vOv

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
elise densi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2015-04-30 06:45:44 UTC
if ur so called plans work and u see a 40 man HQ fleet running
all u need is a fiew ships to jam the logi and u see ships explode

an inc ship doesnt need mutch damage from sansha they can die within secconds TCRC's
Atomeon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-04-30 06:54:33 UTC
Just No!
Mario Putzo
#14 - 2015-04-30 06:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
I fail to see what the issue here is. Why should HS and LS system defenses persist through a Sansha attack? Sanshas are Pirates and they take 100% control of a system, if they control it then shouldn't they write the rules?

CONCORD (DED) (and by extension the Empires) pay Capsuleers to then drive Sanshas out so they can regain control of the system. Am I missing something here?
Alice Doombringer
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2015-04-30 06:58:26 UTC
Have you even tought this beyond your own killboard? How Hisec incursion then would differ from Lowsec incursion? How many fleets do Lowsec incursions? Open your eyes.

The cruel reality is that if hisec incursions would be turned into lowsec incursions as you are suggesting pretty much, it would mean the end of incursions in hte scale it is now. That would have big impact on markets also. These expensive incursion ships pretty much would cease to exist as not many have anymore need for them. Deadspace module prices would drop, pirate faction ship prices would drop. and many other prices would drop. And in the end all that would been achieved with this idea would be just 1 big hisec group activity to cease existing pretty much.
Mario Putzo
#16 - 2015-04-30 07:00:57 UTC
Alice Doombringer wrote:
Have you even tought this beyond your own killboard? How Hisec incursion then would differ from Lowsec incursion? How many fleets do Lowsec incursions? Open your eyes.

The cruel reality is that if hisec incursions would be turned into lowsec incursions as you are suggesting pretty much, it would mean the end of incursions in hte scale it is now. That would have big impact on markets also. These expensive incursion ships pretty much would cease to exist as not many have anymore need for them. Deadspace module prices would drop, pirate faction ship prices would drop. and many other prices would drop. And in the end all that would been achieved with this idea would be just 1 big hisec group activity to cease existing pretty much.



Im not sure I see why this group activity would cease to exist. If they could be ganked, why do people not gank them now? Ganking is and of itself killing a ship before concord comes no?
Atomeon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-04-30 07:06:29 UTC
You are trying to enforce chaos to those systems. You think Faction police, Customs and Concord can not rebel a few ships that are trying to take over the system?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-04-30 07:06:36 UTC
They should involve the same payout as other securities if not more as in no other security do attackers enjoy concord protection right up to the target constellation.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#19 - 2015-04-30 07:07:42 UTC
Because it is too much effort and not many incursions run in 0.5 systems. With Concord intervention removed, you could effectively stay there and shoot them as long as you want.

On the other hand, I'm curious how a test run of such a system would work out. Discussing this kind of stuff is futile unless there would be a proper test (not on useless Sisi) things like this with proper experience and test results.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#20 - 2015-04-30 07:07:48 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
I fail to see what the issue here is. Why should HS and LS system defenses persist through a Sansha attack? Sanshas are Pirates and they take 100% control of a system, if they control it then shouldn't they write the rules?

CONCORD (DED) (and by extension the Empires) pay Capsuleers to then drive Sanshas out so they can regain control of the system. Am I missing something here?

Because they don't take 100% control of the system. That's what you are missing.
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