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Dev blog: X Marks The Spot - The New Star Map Is Out Of Beta

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Dentia Caecus
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#101 - 2015-04-29 15:25:58 UTC
Zand Vor wrote:
As a wormholer, some of these issues just aren't negotiable for quality of life, they are a necessity to make the new map workable.

I'm sure these have been posted before, but these are my biggest gripes:

- No distances reported from my location to a target celestial/bookmark.
- Sun is not a celestial/warpable object
- "Circle" pointer is difficult to guess where to place it
- Loading animation is a bit long.
- When you jump through a wormhole it doesn't automatically move to the new system you are in.
- Sigs get hidden behind other celestials
- Probe icons get in the way of other icons
- icons need to be translucent so you can see other icons behind them.
- You can't use the radial dial on anything in the map



The above is a succinct summary of most of the major problems with the new map. His thoughts combined with the sig scanning and combat scanning problems contained in other posts give a complete picture of the issues presented by the beta, new map:


Katsumi Hartley wrote:
Probes gives wrong scan results on the new map ! You need to scan at 4 AU and get a really weak hit at the center of the probes then go down to 2 and get 0% then you have to go back to 8 to get the real hit and then go down to 4-2 etc...

- Often when you launch probes, the bubbles and the arrows are splited but come back together when you move them.

- [W]hen you select a signature among the others after a scan, it keeps the others on screen


and finally...

Altrue wrote:
Furthermore, being able to see the position of moons around a planet, is something critical when probing. In that regard, both the maximum zoom level issue and the icon stacking issues are in the way of enabling that.

For instance, when I'm combat probing somebody near a planet, I like to know if he's at a moon or in a safe, and if there is a POS at this location. In the old map, I can just zoom and see for myself. Failure to do that will result in either a waste of time because the guy is actually inside a forcefield, and/or loss of isks because we get blown up by a POS.


or as Lara Divinity put it

Lara Divinity wrote:
dont bother with combat probing nomore by the time u get 100% they long gone...


I concur with previous posters. It is clear that much work has been put into this feature, but the above issues are major snags. The new map is still deeply in beta and should be treated as such; please enable the old map as the default and solve the issues presented by the community.
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
#102 - 2015-04-29 15:56:56 UTC
Alright, tried it for probing mostly.

  • The circular cursor is just all around bad.

  • The zoom animation is nice and all, but I tend to turn the map on and off a lot to do in space stuff, waiting on the animation to finish got old quickly. Once per system would be OK, but after that I just expect it to get immediately back to where I left it.

  • Planetary bodies seem to be not on the orbit circle markers, but float above them. Visually distracting IMO.

  • Jump gate connection lines don't add much useful info when zoomed in to the system level.

  • The icon marking my position could be more distinct.

  • When jumping to next system, map focus is still on the last system.

  • Signature markers seemed bugged at times. Should show a double, but didn't.

  • I don't really need the star field background. It just adds visual clutter without any benefit.


    • Rivr Luzade
    Coreli Corporation
    Pandemic Legion
    #103 - 2015-04-29 16:37:53 UTC
    Where in the new map can I turn on that I only -- and clearly -- see the name of the selected region? The old map gives me the opportunity to show all region names, adjacent to the current selected region or only selected region. I want that back if it is not there.

    Also, the region names are too small. They need to be a bit bigger and more pronounced.

    UI Improvement Collective

    My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
    Wilj0
    #104 - 2015-04-29 17:26:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Wilj0
    Hi,

    Here is a little example of 3 possible displays for map statistics that would allow more than one statistic at a time. The current glowing sphere is not very precise and hard to distinguish from one another.

    Eve Online Map Statistic Displays Test

    The statistic display on the top left is a pie format based on rings. Each ring is a new statistic. The more statistics you add the bigger the ring gets and the more cluttered the screen will be.

    The statistic display on the top right is a bar graph format. Each bar is a statistic. The more statistics you add the more room they will take to the left of the system's name.

    The statistic display on the bottom right is an equality divided circle. Each division is a statistic. The more statistics you add the smaller each division gets. The closer to the outer ring the statistic is the greater the number is.

    Keep in mind that each graph has a gray area. This grey area serves as a visual to see how close to full it is. A graph that is full means it is the biggest from the selected systems to display statics on.

    I also suggest a way to pre-select solar systems/regions/constellations/by sec status so that the statistics picked will only show on the selected systems. Shift dragging enables box select mode? Ctrl+clicking on systems, region names, etc... adds them tot he selection? By default all systems are selected.

    I still don't know how these graphs would look on a larger scale. They might clutter the screen too much. But the current glowing spheres doesn't work very well either. So I'm trying to get some R&D going about the matter.

    Cheers,
    Wilj0
    Cleanse Serce
    Lonesome Capsuleer
    #105 - 2015-04-29 17:54:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Cleanse Serce
    Only thing i'm asking :

    Lower the icones thickness.

    It's sometimes really hard to select probes when they hide next this black thing surrounding icones now. :)

    Good job though with the map, i find it fluid and smooth, and i love the background/window.

    GJ !

    Oh and i like the idea of the guy just above me. ^
    I'm sure CCP would come up with nicer looking if the idea though, no offence. :p
    Terra Chrall
    Doomheim
    #106 - 2015-04-29 18:17:04 UTC
    Needs more work in regards to scanning for sure. Glad to hear it is still being worked on. Please don't remove the old map hastily, it is still needed for a while, going off of the current progress of the new map and scanning.

    That said, I have new map turned off on my scanning character but turned on for my guy that travels more than scans. I like the new in general and want it to succeed. Once you get it tuned for quick scanning, then I will be happy to have it as the new map.
    Gunz blazing Ronuken
    Insane's Asylum
    #107 - 2015-04-29 18:35:43 UTC
    Tested new map and it looks very nice for some reason, more modern graphics than commode 84 colors in the ui.
    But... the map feels much more poor in the features section like severeal stuff a seasoned scanner is going to miss.
    Like seeing the distance between your ship and a selected celestial/ bookmark in the map.
    Icons in the map not having enough alpha so its hard to see where the yellow icon on a partially scanned signature is cause the middle scan probe box is covering it up in 100% white....

    just a few things i noticed after 10 mins scanning.
    Tinukeda'ya Naskingar
    Minmatar Expeditions ltd.
    #108 - 2015-04-29 18:51:15 UTC
    So, with the last update I can finally see my BMs in the new map. And I hate it. Instead of the small unobtrusive pins I get the same pins on huge black paddle. Paddle that snaps to other paddles when they are overlapping, even if the actual BMs are AUs apart. So when I rotate my system map they snap and unsnap all the time. It's very disturbing.

    Not to mention that the BMs now clutter the galaxy map as well!

    Also I kinda hoped that when they decide to go out of beta they'll add all the celestials to the map! Where are the suns in WH systems???
    No moon orbits visible anymore?!?

    All and all I kinda like the visual of the map on the galaxy level but it sucks big time on the system level visually and functionality wise.

    And of course all those inertia, circle cursor and other problems mentioned in other posts.

    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -  Arthur C. Clarke
    Sturmwolke
    #109 - 2015-04-29 18:53:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
    New map needs a "galactic north" indicator for abstract mode and possibly for 3d mode if you can manage it.
    Without a common frame of galactic north reference, you'll get players confusing south/north/east/west etc. for reports and articles that use cardinal direction as references.
    e.g CVA, Stainwagon are south block powers.

    Edit:
    Galactic cardinal direction was never an issue for the old map as the view was position locked.
    You'll always see Providence, Stain in the south.

    Edit2:
    Regional vs constellation jump starlines is Hard to Distinguish™. This seems to be trademark with CCP UI design nowadays.
    Can someone please knock some sense into whomever thought those similar dashes with minor changes here and there is great for clarity.
    Elwha Lynx
    The Icarus Expedition
    Solyaris Chtonium
    #110 - 2015-04-29 19:32:11 UTC
    Catching up on long thread but tried a couple hours core scanning last night with new map.

    First off it's pretty with lots of wow looks about it but it' has some crippling problems as well.

    --the probe box and probe location are often not aligned--sometimes clear across the system from each other as if it's confused between current location and planned location-- it would be much simpler if there was a different color some other way to distinguish between current location and planned location for the next scan.

    -Box is far more difficult to grab and pull to new location-- most oftentimes it ends up being a single probe and which is often a waste of time. The box resizing with map scale only makes this more difficult.

    -The possible location dots don't pop and highlight when they are within the probe detection range anymore--or require so much zoom in to see that's it's almost useless now--the result is wasted scans because one or more axis was off.

    -it seems a bit slower than the old mapping system.

    The continuous zooming scale is a neat feature--but unfortunately the other drawbacks make it inferior to the old map.
    Fzhal
    #111 - 2015-04-29 19:35:02 UTC
    My constructive criticism. (Like it so far, but understand it is a work in progress.)

    Colorblindness affects more people than you think. (Colorblindness breakdown, which is probably over 40k of your 500k+ subscribers.)
    You can actually test how things look by using your own custom images at http://www.color-blindness.com/coblis-color-blindness-simulator/. Please upload this example and click through the different vision deficiencies. I know that color-blindness is a tricky beast, so I'd like to make a few recommendations that I feel would make it easier. I almost submitted a bug report when it was returning zero-ish strength signatures because I was scanning the system aura instead of an actual signature. (This is so frustrating!)
    In probing window, make it so we can double-click on low-strength signatures (colored globes in map) to center view on them.
    Ability to disable system color, or (even better) set system aura color to be ONE color choice (gradation) instead of the current rainbow used to convey the statistics.


    In addition to many other good suggestions above:
    Solar system window on top of scanning window
    Hotkey to hold so that you can click on the probe-move-cube (or near it) without fear of grabbing individual probe's globe or arrow.
    Hotkey that makes mouse wheel increase/decrease probes' strength/radii.
    Make probe-move-cube's outer arrows statically 2D because they become un-selectable thin lines from certain angles.
    A hotkey to center view on probe-move-cube. I double-click the first probe launched (lowest number is center) to speed things up, but sometimes the probe names are out of order (like 14 being at top when the lowest (9) is somewhere below it.
    D-Scan integration so that you can small-cone scan a planet without losing your top-down view, even better is you don't have to swivel at all because it just does it. Barring that, a hotkey to return to top-down view with North/South returning to top and bottom so you don't lose orientation.
    Wilj0
    #112 - 2015-04-29 19:56:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Wilj0
    Hi,

    I have ran into this glitch 3 times already. I scan down a signature to what appears to be a single red dot, but when I double click the signature on the probe scanner window it does not center to it. I try scanning it down further and I miss the scan even if I did not re-size the probe scan range.

    It appears that the new map does not show the scans that render 2 or 3 dots appropriate at times. You know this happens to you when you try double clicking on a single red dot to center the camera and it does not work. If this happens, you are better off using the old map to scan the site down.

    Also, very frustrating is the star map auto-rotating to other orientations at times. What makes it more frustrating is that it seems to be 180 degrees from what is considered it's standard orientation. I'm not sure why this happens... but I do know that if I'm scanning in a solar system and rotate the camera around the probes it will also be rotating the camera for my star map which I believe is unwanted behavior. I would like my star map to keep it's orientation if possible (even after logging out).

    Just a heads up.

    Cheers,
    Wilj0


    Edit: The 180 degree rotation of the star map seems to happen when you click on the Probe Scanner window's Map button and you have the beta map as your default map.
    Bluebearhai
    Suddenly taken over
    #113 - 2015-04-29 22:28:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Bluebearhai
    This new map is far from finished.

    BUG
    - Bug: characters on same account show the solar system the other characters are in when you open the map for the first time after log in.

    Improvements needed for the new map

    - Combat scanning:

    1. There is no dscan so you can't pinpoint targets like you used to be able to do with the old map. With the new map you need to dscan in space and rougly guess, you can't pinpoint your probes to that direction. Leading to more errors which didn't exist with the old map, basically with the new map we lost functionality, precision and accuracy.
    2. You need to be able to zoom in much more. If you combat scan a ship near a planet it will make a list instead of showing the exact location of the ship
    3. The cursor and fancy icons don't help with scanning fast and efficiently like we did with the old map. After practicing abit I got a feeling for it, however your probes become smaller when you zoom so moving them makes it very error sensitive because there are so many clickable icons
    4. If you have alot of bookmarks in system, the system is full of those clickable icons. Yes I can turn bookmarks off, but I didn't have to do this before. Having bookmarks shown on the map is practicable and almost mandatory for making some kills happen (content!!!). Icons should be smaller and we need to be able to click and select more precise.
    5. If there are multiple gates or celestials close to each other you cannot tell at which gate/celestial the ship is at on the new map. You have to be in dscan range to seperate them. This cripples combat probers who supply eve content.
    6. The map needs to tell distance. The purpose of a map is to tell how places are located relatively from each other. There is no functional map in existence that has no scale legend except in EvE online. The new map has no tactical overlay, or even a way to tell how objects in space are distanced to each other. I can't even tell how big a solar system is by looking at the map. How can this gone through? It's like traveling through the jungle: you go by landmarks not by precise distances. The alternative is to use your probe scan range as a tool to tell distances, but this is not an option for combat probes as probes are shown on dscan in small systems. A simple scale legend of distance or a tactical overlay is a must to properly combat scan at all.


    - Core probing

    1. There seem to be no more semi-fault scan. You are given 1 of the 2. So scanning out sites takes at least 1 more scan than before if you guess the wrong one. This is because choosing the wrong one leaves you with no result and you lose the old location. This is just a big RNG and scanning is in my opinion SP and skill based not a roulette.
    2. Like combat scanning, scanning results can be hidden under clickable icons. I had one scan where there was a tiny circle hidden around one of the huge probe (clickable) icon . Icons should be alot smaller and you should be able to have the ability to click and see accurately so that you are in full control in clicking the probe/object or signatures separately from each other.


    These are just a few things that come to my mind. The new map looks nice and all, but it has no use if it doesn't serve it's purpose: defining the location of multiple places related to each other. Just two simple examples: the new map cannot tell the size of a solar system or how far I'm located from objects in space. Additionally the new map is in a too low resolution; celestials and objects are compiled in a list too fast; we need more zoom.

    The new map lost functionality and at the moment it's just a nice picture of the universe that cripples PVPers. I cannot comprehend if this goes through beta like this. Come on CCP you are better than this! Making a map with no way to tell distances! Correct yourself devs!
    Braic Stark
    Maniacal Legion of the Pineal Body
    #114 - 2015-04-29 22:41:17 UTC
    The new map is garbage for scanning.

    can't easily grab the grouped probes.

    Probe icons cover the signature you're trying to scan.

    clumsy.

    Takes me twice as long to scan now in a Speed Scan fit Helios.



    Good work breaking something that worked perfectly.
    Memphis Baas
    #115 - 2015-04-30 00:03:18 UTC
    Please give us the option to disable the new map's background humming sound. It is extremely annoying, and it prevents me from having the map permanently open (docked to the side or full screen on my side monitor).

    Otherwise the map is pretty good. Can't zoom in as much as with the old map, but the transition from local to starmap is neat.

    However, until the background hum is removed I am not going to use the new map. So it's currently disabled.
    Wilj0
    #116 - 2015-04-30 01:09:18 UTC
    Memphis Baas wrote:
    Please give us the option to disable the new map's background humming sound. It is extremely annoying, and it prevents me from having the map permanently open (docked to the side or full screen on my side monitor).

    Otherwise the map is pretty good. Can't zoom in as much as with the old map, but the transition from local to starmap is neat.

    However, until the background hum is removed I am not going to use the new map. So it's currently disabled.


    Hey Memphis,

    I complained about the same thing, but someone pointed out to me that you can disable the background noise for the beta map from the Esc menu -> Audio -> Advanced Audio Settings -> Map & ISIS Volume.

    GL
    khaip ur
    Pator Tech School
    Minmatar Republic
    #117 - 2015-04-30 02:08:43 UTC
    I've been forcing myself to use the new map today and three suggestions came to mind. Please tell me if options for these already exist and I simply cannot find them.

    1. There needs to be a way to colour code the icons. I want all my corp bookmarks in blue all stations in green all my bookmarks in purple etc. Right now everything is the same colour.

    2. when probing and you select a signature please can the dot go on top of everything including the nearby planet/gate and your probes. I know if the probes icon blocks out the signature icon you are probably at the spot you want to probe but its annoying.

    3. Is there some way to move the search icon. I know its out of the way but in full screen mode it puts the search icon under my overview. I use full screen mode because windowed mode puts the map in front of my probe scanner window when its the focus.
    Lil' Brudder Too
    Pistols for Pandas
    #118 - 2015-04-30 02:55:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lil' Brudder Too
    The new map is very dim and dark in the star-map view compared to the old one. The systems are nice and colorful when very close to the camera, but by the time you've zoomed out enough to do anything, all the systems are very dull and dimmed, making it harder to do stuffs.

    There seem to be a few aspects of the camera control that you (CCP) seem to want for the probing/system view that just don't translate all that well to controlling the camera in the zoomed out 'universe' view....like the right-click panning....if you are in the 'flattened' view, and you have the screen ever so slightly tilted, you will end up 'panning' AWAY from the map itself...not across it like the old map...but away from it. Please fix.

    New Icon SiSi feedback thread that got wholly ignored!

    An example of that a good ship icon set looks like.
    Rook Mallard
    Aperture Harmonics
    #119 - 2015-04-30 04:28:46 UTC
    OMG! the new map sucks when you are scanning!

    - Inertia is killing me. The old map was crisp when zooming/panning. Not sure what's the gain with this...maybe it looks cool. But then again, it makes using the map a PITA.
    - The cursor seems to always be a circle. I am not sure which part of it use to actually point to something. It is called pointer a pointer because it should have a pointy end...somewhere.
    - The probes show always as an icon cluttering the display even when I am handling them all together as one.
    - There is no "you are here" label or pointer like in the old one. Good luck finding yourself in it. ... Oh Wait! The cross-hairs is your ship! Make it more obvious!! Change color/icon. The cross-hair is too similar to probes/planets/gates.
    - There's multiple display issues. You launch probes, the cube with the arrows shows up, but no bubbles for the probes so no indication of the range/size of them. No way to change the range/size from the map.
    - When the bubbles do show up resizing them is not as easy as before. It's hard to grab the edge to resize them.
    - You probe a sig, the "dot" is not displayed.
    - Sometimes the cube shows up in the middle of the system while the actual bubbles show up somewhere else.
    - Why is there no sun in WH space???
    The old map opens centered on your ship. The new one not anymore. You spend the first few seconds always looking where you are in the map.
    - Lines connecting gates maybe cool (again) but they could be a lot more subtle. They really confuse and clutter things.
    - Open the map (I'm in a WH). Hit the "focus current location" control, everything disappears.
    - No d-scanning from the new map?!!!! Shocked

    I've worked in software for many years and I can tell when something has not even been used by the developer. C'mon CCP you can do better.

    Unfortunately this thing will stay off for now. Cry
    Llurren
    Blackwater USA Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #120 - 2015-04-30 06:22:11 UTC
    One more thing I've noticed:

    When using multiple monitors, the map doesn't center right/left like your general settings allow. That means that the star system is centered between two monitors or leaving full-screen mode to just use a single screen.

    "I grok people. I am people… so now I can say it in people talk. I've found out why people laugh. They laugh because it hurts so much… because it's the only thing that'll make it stop hurting."