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PvE fatigue: Phoebe for PvE

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#81 - 2015-04-28 21:10:25 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
people will just buy more alts 1/10 stop being silly


Well no, the fatigue will be linked to the account and across accounts so you can't dodge it that way either.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#82 - 2015-04-28 21:46:15 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
people will just buy more alts 1/10 stop being silly


Well no, the fatigue will be linked to the account and across accounts so you can't dodge it that way either.


what? thats even worse than the op

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#83 - 2015-04-28 23:52:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Lan Wang wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
people will just buy more alts 1/10 stop being silly


Well no, the fatigue will be linked to the account and across accounts so you can't dodge it that way either.


what? thats even worse than the op


No, you are mistaken, that was NOT my idea, but in the OP, IIRC. I'll look and update.

Edit:
Nope, it is just account wide, not across accounts.

Quote:
Since PvE alts are much cheaper to train than proper PvP pilots, the fatigue would be bypassed by alts, so needs to be account-wide. This way the no-lifer or botter needs to use extra PLEX-es to keep running.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#84 - 2015-04-29 14:03:29 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Your post can be, if I may put words in your keyboard, be best summarized by Malcanis' law. As you point out...we've already run up a good portion of the learning curve and the skill curve. This proposal absolutely will not help the new players. It will make the game more complex and at the same time be more limiting.

I graciously accept the words you placed into my keyboard and thank you for them.
However I thought it best to try a little larger hammer approach, since the OP does not seem to understand how this idea would be more of a burden on new players I thought it likely that he may not understand Malcanis law and all that other sophisticated kind of stuff.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#85 - 2015-04-29 15:38:15 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Your post can be, if I may put words in your keyboard, be best summarized by Malcanis' law. As you point out...we've already run up a good portion of the learning curve and the skill curve. This proposal absolutely will not help the new players. It will make the game more complex and at the same time be more limiting.

I graciously accept the words you placed into my keyboard and thank you for them.
However I thought it best to try a little larger hammer approach, since the OP does not seem to understand how this idea would be more of a burden on new players I thought it likely that he may not understand Malcanis law and all that other sophisticated kind of stuff.


There is no hammer large enough for Gevlon.... Big smile

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#86 - 2015-04-29 16:10:31 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Your post can be, if I may put words in your keyboard, be best summarized by Malcanis' law. As you point out...we've already run up a good portion of the learning curve and the skill curve. This proposal absolutely will not help the new players. It will make the game more complex and at the same time be more limiting.

I graciously accept the words you placed into my keyboard and thank you for them.
However I thought it best to try a little larger hammer approach, since the OP does not seem to understand how this idea would be more of a burden on new players I thought it likely that he may not understand Malcanis law and all that other sophisticated kind of stuff.


There is no hammer large enough for Gevlon.... Big smile

10Gt asteroid from high orbit should manage to impart something on his skull.....

Joking aside, there is always a bigger hammer.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#87 - 2015-04-29 16:49:36 UTC
Interesting concept, though I doubt it would really turn out the way you seem to expect.
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#88 - 2015-04-30 17:38:43 UTC
While starting other accounts to dodge fatigue is possible, it costs a PLEX.
The point is that your first account is "free", since you run this account to play EVE. Whatever you farm on it is just a bonus. Farmers have lot of PLEX-ed accounts that they keep only to farm, not to play, they are hit much harder by this suggestion than players.

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#89 - 2015-05-01 07:25:13 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
While starting other accounts to dodge fatigue is possible, it costs a PLEX.
The point is that your first account is "free", since you run this account to play EVE. Whatever you farm on it is just a bonus. Farmers have lot of PLEX-ed accounts that they keep only to farm, not to play, they are hit much harder by this suggestion than players.

Start new trial account with buddy time. Use as low tier farming alt for 29 days.
Toss a plex at it, to extend by 30days and get 30 days on main.
????
Profit.

Gratz. Instant boom on buddy system abuse because now alts on different accounts are mandatory.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#90 - 2015-05-01 18:43:28 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
While starting other accounts to dodge fatigue is possible, it costs a PLEX.
The point is that your first account is "free", since you run this account to play EVE. Whatever you farm on it is just a bonus. Farmers have lot of PLEX-ed accounts that they keep only to farm, not to play, they are hit much harder by this suggestion than players.


Well, I guess its a plus you admit it makes the game worse for everyone. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#91 - 2015-05-01 19:33:59 UTC
What about the people you can't play the game every day? Should we also limit PVE activity to say 2 days a week?

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#92 - 2015-05-02 17:37:41 UTC
Hopelesshobo wrote:
What about the people you can't play the game every day? Should we also limit PVE activity to say 2 days a week?

Read OP again. Buffer was clearly stated. The buffer should be 14x bigger than the daily regen. So if you have no fatigue, you can PvE 14 days quotas at once before being penalized. Every day you aren't playing, one quota will be subtracted, so next time you play again, you'll have several quotas available.

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2015-05-02 17:56:32 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Hopelesshobo wrote:
What about the people you can't play the game every day? Should we also limit PVE activity to say 2 days a week?

Read OP again. Buffer was clearly stated. The buffer should be 14x bigger than the daily regen. So if you have no fatigue, you can PvE 14 days quotas at once before being penalized. Every day you aren't playing, one quota will be subtracted, so next time you play again, you'll have several quotas available.


Jump fatigue was introduced specifically to stop power projection, it does not stop a player wntering PvP. Why then should players be locked out of PvE activities for no sensible ( game or lore wise) reason? Are our clones so feeble that they can't concentrate for as long as a 21st century human???
Beta Maoye
#94 - 2015-05-02 19:32:06 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Of course high-intensity activities like carrier ratting, gas mining or incursions would allow a good player to still go infinite.


What do you think if someone suggests PVE fatigue should only apply to carrier ratting, gas mining and incursions because he don't like those PVE activities and he think they contribute to part of reasons that PLEX price rises?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#95 - 2015-05-02 20:50:50 UTC
Not only is this suggestion unbalanced (and to be clear ANY suggestion that is to benefit some segment of the games population will be exploitable by others outside that target population), it indicates Gevlon hates markets.

Suppose we have a no lifer guy who sits around and PvEs and ungodly amount of time. He rats for 10 hours a day and makes something like 100 million an hour and he does it 20 hours a day. Now he makes 20 billion. That is alot of isk. However, he will buy PLEX and assuming he has lets say 5 accounts that means he'll be dumping 4 of 20 billion into the wallets of people who can't or will not play to the extremes he does.

Suppose we have another player, he makes a good living and likes playing Eve, but because he does have a life (that good living requires a job) and he decides he'll buy PLEX from CCP and sell them to our no lifer above. Now he can have some of that 4 billion whenever he sells to the no lifer or one of the other no lifers.

That guy who has pretty much made it his "job" to play Eve has an imputed monthly income about what...$400. Whereas our guy with a life might make 6 or even 10 times that...he could afford to buy a few PLEX and sell them. And thanks to the no lifer driving up PLEX prices that is actually more of a viable option. And if our guy with the life whips out his credit card and buys years subscription he pays far, far less than our no-lifer.

And our two players are unlikely to ever interact....aside from our casual guy with a life maybe killing our no lifer periodically. The guy with no life all he does is rat. It isn't like he is out there doing much else.

So I don't even see what the real problem is here. So one player, who only ever rats, has a fatter wallet than the guy who plays casually and sells PLEX to fund his in game activities. Personally, I'd rather know the guy with a life in game than the no lifer. The guy with a life when he does play is probably way more fun and if the no lifer inadvertently helps him play...great.

Basically, I'm kind of wondering...where is the actual problem that needs to be addressed.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2015-05-02 22:01:18 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Not only is this suggestion unbalanced (and to be clear ANY suggestion that is to benefit some segment of the games population will be exploitable by others outside that target population), it indicates Gevlon hates markets.

Suppose we have a no lifer guy who sits around and PvEs and ungodly amount of time. He rats for 10 hours a day and makes something like 100 million an hour and he does it 20 hours a day. Now he makes 20 billion. That is alot of isk. However, he will buy PLEX and assuming he has lets say 5 accounts that means he'll be dumping 4 of 20 billion into the wallets of people who can't or will not play to the extremes he does.

Suppose we have another player, he makes a good living and likes playing Eve, but because he does have a life (that good living requires a job) and he decides he'll buy PLEX from CCP and sell them to our no lifer above. Now he can have some of that 4 billion whenever he sells to the no lifer or one of the other no lifers.

That guy who has pretty much made it his "job" to play Eve has an imputed monthly income about what...$400. Whereas our guy with a life might make 6 or even 10 times that...he could afford to buy a few PLEX and sell them. And thanks to the no lifer driving up PLEX prices that is actually more of a viable option. And if our guy with the life whips out his credit card and buys years subscription he pays far, far less than our no-lifer.

And our two players are unlikely to ever interact....aside from our casual guy with a life maybe killing our no lifer periodically. The guy with no life all he does is rat. It isn't like he is out there doing much else.

So I don't even see what the real problem is here. So one player, who only ever rats, has a fatter wallet than the guy who plays casually and sells PLEX to fund his in game activities. Personally, I'd rather know the guy with a life in game than the no lifer. The guy with a life when he does play is probably way more fun and if the no lifer inadvertently helps him play...great.

Basically, I'm kind of wondering...where is the actual problem that needs to be addressed.


Precisely. Apparently some people forget plex are not seeded.

If plex halved in value now, why on earth would ANYONE spend real money on something affordable within 1-2 hours PvE?

It wouldn't do anything more than utterly tank the plex market. Oh, and make holders of existing assets orders of magnitude richer overnight.

Frankly the only upside of this thread has been to lower the bar for shiptoasting.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#97 - 2015-05-03 03:29:35 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Not only is this suggestion unbalanced (and to be clear ANY suggestion that is to benefit some segment of the games population will be exploitable by others outside that target population), it indicates Gevlon hates markets.

Suppose we have a no lifer guy who sits around and PvEs and ungodly amount of time. He rats for 10 hours a day and makes something like 100 million an hour and he does it 20 hours a day. Now he makes 20 billion. That is alot of isk. However, he will buy PLEX and assuming he has lets say 5 accounts that means he'll be dumping 4 of 20 billion into the wallets of people who can't or will not play to the extremes he does.

Suppose we have another player, he makes a good living and likes playing Eve, but because he does have a life (that good living requires a job) and he decides he'll buy PLEX from CCP and sell them to our no lifer above. Now he can have some of that 4 billion whenever he sells to the no lifer or one of the other no lifers.

That guy who has pretty much made it his "job" to play Eve has an imputed monthly income about what...$400. Whereas our guy with a life might make 6 or even 10 times that...he could afford to buy a few PLEX and sell them. And thanks to the no lifer driving up PLEX prices that is actually more of a viable option. And if our guy with the life whips out his credit card and buys years subscription he pays far, far less than our no-lifer.

And our two players are unlikely to ever interact....aside from our casual guy with a life maybe killing our no lifer periodically. The guy with no life all he does is rat. It isn't like he is out there doing much else.

So I don't even see what the real problem is here. So one player, who only ever rats, has a fatter wallet than the guy who plays casually and sells PLEX to fund his in game activities. Personally, I'd rather know the guy with a life in game than the no lifer. The guy with a life when he does play is probably way more fun and if the no lifer inadvertently helps him play...great.

Basically, I'm kind of wondering...where is the actual problem that needs to be addressed.


Precisely. Apparently some people forget plex are not seeded.

If plex halved in value now, why on earth would ANYONE spend real money on something affordable within 1-2 hours PvE?

It wouldn't do anything more than utterly tank the plex market. Oh, and make holders of existing assets orders of magnitude richer overnight.

Frankly the only upside of this thread has been to lower the bar for shiptoasting.


To be quite honest, I've been tempted to report as a rule 23 violation--post constructively. Since there is no problem, it is a biased and possibly exploitable suggestion, and limits play time when CCP would like to do precisely the opposite...just lock it.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#98 - 2015-05-03 05:20:45 UTC  |  Edited by: James Baboli
Teckos Pech wrote:


To be quite honest, I've been tempted to report as a rule 23 violation--post constructively. Since there is no problem, it is a biased and possibly exploitable suggestion, and limits play time when CCP would like to do precisely the opposite...just lock it.


Unfortunately, unlikely to do much because of Falcon.

CCP Falcon wrote:

Please do not report this thread for trolling. ISD do not lock a thread just because you believe that the idea inappropriate. You are free to state that you believe the idea is bad, subject to the forum rules.

If you have questions about this, please file a support ticket.


Told us to stop reporting it, and kept re-opening it without comment.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#99 - 2015-05-03 06:30:53 UTC
I propose a Goblin Fatigue mechanism . . . .

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2015-05-03 07:24:38 UTC
I'm all for a rest mechanic similar to WoW, perhaps affecting damage. A tired capsuleer should take some penalties. Nobody needs to play 16-23.5 hours per day, every day. A rest mechanic penalizing people who play more than 112 hours in a week (sliding window) will only harm botters and people who really should get more sleep.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."