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How do we increase PvP in C5 and C6?

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Siginek
Newbie Friendly Industries
CeskoSlovenska Aliance
#221 - 2015-04-29 10:54:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Siginek
Hidden Fremen wrote:
Hans Bonderstadt wrote:
people need a reason to leave their POS and home wormhole ))))

That's easy to fix. There are plenty enough incentives to bring people out of the POS. Just add more environmental content. Doesn't change their aversion to consensual PvP, still.


Neither would it change your aversion not to blob everybody ... you want to change environment even trough this is player issue and you are responsible for it
Ilaister
Binary Aesthetics
#222 - 2015-04-29 11:15:43 UTC
Siginek wrote:
Neither would it change your aversion not to blob everybody ... you want to change environment even trough this is player issue and you are responsible for it


Have managed to avoid it thusfar but as this won't cease.... in my experience LZHK are the last highclass entity you can accuse of risk aversion with a straight face.

Maybe others have different experience with them, perhaps things have changed with their corp since they grew but as far as interaction with my group goes can honestly say it's YOLO/engage with better fits + more dual/triple/quadboxing is how they operate.

If there are problems thanks to specific corps in C5-6 it doesn't come from LZHK.
Siginek
Newbie Friendly Industries
CeskoSlovenska Aliance
#223 - 2015-04-29 11:33:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Siginek
Ilaister wrote:
Siginek wrote:
Neither would it change your aversion not to blob everybody ... you want to change environment even trough this is player issue and you are responsible for it


Have managed to avoid it thusfar but as this won't cease.... in my experience LZHK are the last highclass entity you can accuse of risk aversion with a straight face.

Maybe others have different experience with them, perhaps things have changed with their corp since they grew but as far as interaction with my group goes can honestly say it's YOLO/engage with better fits + more dual/triple/quadboxing is how they operate.

If there are problems thanks to specific corps in C5-6 it doesn't come from LZHK.


by "you" i mean that blue blob of LZHX/QEX/HRDKX ... they are responsible of half of players from C5/C6 being gone and other half doenst want to fight them because they dont want to get blobbed .... and yet, here we are discuissing how to solve this player problem by changing environment in topic which creation is based on discussion between corbexx and hidden fremen ... that is bit of hypocritic from LZHX side ...
... anyway ... not saying that some changes for WH space wouldnt be bad, there is still too much WH space and too few entertainment here, but you cant blame this problem on system solely ... this is much more player responsibility ...
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#224 - 2015-04-29 11:51:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Erica Dusette
Alright I'll do a serous post .... uhg.

Siginek wrote:
by "you" i mean that blue blob of LZHX/QEX/HRDKX ... they are responsible of half of players from C5/C6 being gone and other half doenst want to fight them because they dont want to get blobbed .... and yet, here we are discuissing how to solve this player problem by changing environment in topic which creation is based on discussion between corbexx and hidden fremen ... that is bit of hypocritic from LZHX side ...
... anyway ... not saying that some changes for WH space wouldnt be bad, there is still too much WH space and too few entertainment here, but you cant blame this problem on system solely ... this is much more player responsibility ...

I agree that the blob thing is real. But it's nobody's fault.

People see the fights and action these groups get involved in. It's epic ^^ People want to be a part of that, they join large, successful groups because they want to have that fun too. The corps grow, so do the fleets. It's natural evolution and that is nobody's fault at all. We can't seriously expect corps to start limiting member intake or fleet sizes. It's just not gonna happen.

So we need to start looking at other solutions to off-set the natural evolution of these things and in the end a lot of that is going to come down to environmental stuff. It just is. People can yell at the big groups all they want, but the reason they are big is because the are successful and people are always going to want to be involved in that. Big fleet fights, cap kills, all that stuff is why I stopped flying solo and wanted to join real corps for serious action. Didn't you?

Quote:
that is bit of hypocritic from LZHX side ...

This is maybe the only part of your post, and this thread, I'll side with.

This thread essentially was inspired by LZHX and corbexx, saying "How do we increase PvP in C5 and C6?". Many people's first reaction was to say "But it's all your fault". The interesting thing then was the reaction from those involved in creating this thread, doing a complete 180 turn and saying "But there's nothing wrong, you're all just bad at this game."

So yes, it does look a bit hypocritical, no offence.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

▷ worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕ ▷ вσss
Help They GotMyMoney
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#225 - 2015-04-29 12:09:02 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:
Alright I'll do a serous post .... uhg.


The corps grow, so do the fleets. It's natural evolution and that is nobody's fault at all. We can't seriously expect corps to start limiting member intake or fleet sizes. It's just not gonna happen.



Closing recruitment seems to fix this issue for most people in eve.
Perhaps the leadership should realize that, seeing as wh space (as far as I remember) was a small/medium fleet's space, and not 100+ t3's blobfest like in k-space, and the said leaders should strive to keep pvp challenging and interesting, and not just anchoring with many t3s and acting as another pawn of someone's (FC's) isboxer.

For example look at all the cool things NoHo did with their medium sized fleets, all the cool fights.
Sadly the way things are going I think they were the last of their kind. No more fighting outnumbered, just a monotone t3 blob where no one except the fc is actually relevant. (yes if you die in your t3 during a fight, it changes nothing)

Hidden, Noobman and MaxDEL, don't you see that you are taking the challenging tasks out of the game, and games are supposed to be challenging, otherwise it takes the fun away, same way as using cheats/trainer/codes.

Post with you're main.

Lazerhawks: ¨we are 5x better organized and we win by skill not always because of numbers¨
Siginek
Newbie Friendly Industries
CeskoSlovenska Aliance
#226 - 2015-04-29 12:15:18 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:
People see the fights and action these groups get involved in. It's epic ^^ People want to be a part of that, they join large, successful groups because they want to have that fun too. The corps grow, so do the fleets. It's natural evolution and that is nobody's fault at all. We can't seriously expect corps to start limiting member intake or fleet sizes. It's just not gonna happen.

So we need to start looking at other solutions to off-set the natural evolution of these things and in the end a lot of that is going to come down to environmental stuff. It just is. People can yell at the big groups all they want, but the reason they are big is because the are successful and people are always going to want to be involved in that. Big fleet fights, cap kills, all that stuff is why I stopped flying solo and wanted to join real corps for serious action. Didn't you?.



For long time there were lot of smaller groups fighting each other, no hard feelings, everybody had fun and WH life was fine and healthy, but some time later few of theese groups started to work together and wiping smaller groups for sport and thats the point where life in WH went to hell ...
And to your question ... i would love to be part of group that managed to be king of the hill by making themself better than other, but still having same chances to win as enemy did
But i definitelly wouldnt want to be part of this "group" that basically blobs and bullies everyone out of sport because they are biggest in WH, thats not fun, thats not even remotely fair, thats just big kid beating small kids one after another ...
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#227 - 2015-04-29 12:22:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrew Jester
Erica Dusette wrote:
Alright I'll do a serous post .... uhg.

I thought you were better than that Oops

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#228 - 2015-04-29 12:22:33 UTC
Help They GotMyMoney wrote:
Erica Dusette wrote:
Alright I'll do a serous post .... uhg.


The corps grow, so do the fleets. It's natural evolution and that is nobody's fault at all. We can't seriously expect corps to start limiting member intake or fleet sizes. It's just not gonna happen.



Closing recruitment seems to fix this issue for most people in eve.
Perhaps the leadership should realize that, seeing as wh space (as far as I remember) was a small/medium fleet's space, and not 100+ t3's blobfest like in k-space, and the said leaders should strive to keep pvp challenging and interesting, and not just anchoring with many t3s and acting as another pawn of someone's (FC's) isboxer.

For example look at all the cool things NoHo did with their medium sized fleets, all the cool fights.
Sadly the way things are going I think they were the last of their kind. No more fighting outnumbered, just a monotone t3 blob where no one except the fc is actually relevant. (yes if you die in your t3 during a fight, it changes nothing)

Hidden, Noobman and MaxDEL, don't you see that you are taking the challenging tasks out of the game, and games are supposed to be challenging, otherwise it takes the fun away, same way as using cheats/trainer/codes.

You may have some good points and even ideas worth listening too, and you seem to like naming names and calling out corps, but people are only going to take you so seriously while you hide you and yours behind an alt. No offence. Here I am with my #1 putting my views forward openly. You are really lucky people even indulge you in the courtesy of a reply tbh.

Yes posting with your main is cliche. But there's a reason for that. ^^

Anyway, "winning" itself is challenging on it's own sometimes. Why do you think some of these groups (big and small do this) team up for certain fights or ganks? Because they cannot do it on their own or the risk to their member's assets is too great. Nobody wants to welp billions in fleets daily, you fight to win. Simple. You can't blame people for that. If it turns out to be close, nail-biting fight, awesome!

Sure, I totally agree limiting membership intakes and such might have an impact. But for how long? Not everyone is going to follow suit and unless other changes are looked at this problem will just keep re-occurring every time a group grows to become a large entity. We'll have to remind them of the "wormhole rule about limiting your corp size".

I mean ... seriously ...

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

▷ worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕ ▷ вσss
Iyokus Patrouette
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#229 - 2015-04-29 12:24:16 UTC
Siginek wrote:
Erica Dusette wrote:
People see the fights and action these groups get involved in. It's epic ^^ People want to be a part of that, they join large, successful groups because they want to have that fun too. The corps grow, so do the fleets. It's natural evolution and that is nobody's fault at all. We can't seriously expect corps to start limiting member intake or fleet sizes. It's just not gonna happen.

So we need to start looking at other solutions to off-set the natural evolution of these things and in the end a lot of that is going to come down to environmental stuff. It just is. People can yell at the big groups all they want, but the reason they are big is because the are successful and people are always going to want to be involved in that. Big fleet fights, cap kills, all that stuff is why I stopped flying solo and wanted to join real corps for serious action. Didn't you?.



For long time there were lot of smaller groups fighting each other, no hard feelings, everybody had fun and WH life was fine and healthy, but some time later few of theese groups started to work together and wiping smaller groups for sport and thats the point where life in WH went to hell ...
And to your question ... i would love to be part of group that managed to be king of the hill by making themself better than other, but still having same chances to win as enemy did
But i definitelly wouldnt want to be part of this "group" that basically blobs and bullies everyone out of sport because they are biggest in WH, thats not fun, thats not even remotely fair, thats just big kid beating small kids one after another ...


Then why don't the small kids grow a pair, team up and take on the 'big boys' with the same numbers.

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

Erica Dusette
Division 13
#230 - 2015-04-29 12:25:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Erica Dusette
Andrew Jester wrote:
Erica Dusette wrote:
Alright I'll do a serous post .... uhg.

I thought you were better than that Oops

True, I am slipping ...

Oops

Sorry senpai.

ed: **** sake Jester learn to quote.

Iyokus Patrouette wrote:

Then why don't the small kids grow a pair, team up and take on the 'big boys' with the same numbers.

Exactly.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

▷ worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕ ▷ вσss
Siginek
Newbie Friendly Industries
CeskoSlovenska Aliance
#231 - 2015-04-29 12:34:01 UTC
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:
Then why don't the small kids grow a pair, team up and take on the 'big boys' with the same numbers.


Thats one option, but it would probably end up with both parties sitting on their hill and waiting for another one to make his move while doing nothing because there would be noone else left to fight expect enemy blob ... and if one would want to evict another they would have to prepare for months to that ... this could probably work for little while, but in the end ppl would get bored by doing nothing and it would get even worse because they would be leaving WH space or even game for good
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#232 - 2015-04-29 12:57:30 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:
Andrew Jester wrote:
Erica Dusette wrote:
Alright I'll do a serous post .... uhg.

I thought you were better than that Oops

True, I am slipping ...

Oops

Sorry senpai.

ed: **** sake Jester learn to quote.

Iyokus Patrouette wrote:

Then why don't the small kids grow a pair, team up and take on the 'big boys' with the same numbers.

Exactly.


Shh I just noticed x.x I was hoping no one else had...

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Jonn Duune
OpSec.
Wrong Hole.
#233 - 2015-04-29 13:14:53 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
unimatrix0030 wrote:


I ran on the c5 highway recently (About 3 days ago). It was fun but it was also pretty much dead with just POS's up. Shattered has no issue regarding pos's, but in order for that to foster fights, there has to be something valuable to get in shattered, and they all need to be interconnected and capable of supporting 5 man fleets to 40 man fleets, caps included.

To do that, there has to be unique items in shattered space to obtain (to make people bring such huge armies in).

Yes that means rare mods that come from officers that spawn at the end of cap escallations in Shattered Space (so yea, you want it, your bringing in a bunch of caps to do it). Means rare items or possible new equipment to be built from the items that can only be obtained in shattered space. Such as New Subsystems that can be found and created only by items dropped in shattered space, or even a new T3 rig or something like that. I'm a little surprised they didn't just throw all the D3 destroyer stuff into the shattered wormholes (slower distribution). I suppose they could do so now but that'd be a different direction.

Incentive the need for going into shattered space, and interconnect shatters together to get people commiting fleets to either run sites in there, or get into fights in there, or roam through it.

Just some thoughts I had. Shattered space could be a viable route to drive wspace conflicts.



I like this idea. It would really force triage gangs and such into shattered, which would definitely increase some pvp. What you could also do is give shattered some statics (personally i think 6 statics, 1 to every class of WH would be fun) that spawn automatically opened, so there's no need to activate them. That way you can't roll them closed either, you either have to take the risk in running these sites, or just fail to partake in what advantages they bring.

My name is Jonn Duune, and I wholeheartedly support the message posted above.
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#234 - 2015-04-29 13:27:29 UTC
The number of evictions done by HK/Lazerhawks/QEX pales in comparison to the number of evictions done by nullsec groups in wormholespace lately. Yet nobody cares about those because they happen to the smaller groups that try to establish themself. This thread is so full of... posts that could have been more constructive. But meh. I'll enjoy c4 space and leave the nullsec farmers to whoever is actually left in c5/6 space.

~Bringer of happiness

http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#235 - 2015-04-29 13:37:52 UTC
calaretu wrote:
The number of evictions done by HK/Lazerhawks/QEX pales in comparison to the number of evictions done by nullsec groups in wormholespace lately. Yet nobody cares about those because they happen to the smaller groups that try to establish themself. This thread is so full of... posts that could have been more constructive. But meh. I'll enjoy c4 space and leave the nullsec farmers to whoever is actually left in c5/6 space.

let's just make statements without facts this is fun Roll

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#236 - 2015-04-29 13:44:18 UTC
Andrew Jester wrote:
calaretu wrote:
The number of evictions done by HK/Lazerhawks/QEX pales in comparison to the number of evictions done by nullsec groups in wormholespace lately. Yet nobody cares about those because they happen to the smaller groups that try to establish themself. This thread is so full of... posts that could have been more constructive. But meh. I'll enjoy c4 space and leave the nullsec farmers to whoever is actually left in c5/6 space.

let's just make statements without facts this is fun Roll


You know there exists groups in nullsec that isnt part of the english community right? Not sure what facts you are looking for but I have personally seen the russian nullsec groups throw out several groups this year. But what groups groups have Lazerhawks etc actually thrown out of their home?

~Bringer of happiness

http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
Ceberia Thalon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#237 - 2015-04-29 13:50:29 UTC
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:
Then why don't the small kids grow a pair, team up and take on the 'big boys' with the same numbers.

May be the small Kids like what they are? Escaping from a fight you can´t win without losing a ship is also part of pvp.

This whole thread was started by large groups complaining they don´t get enough pvp. I didn´t read anything like that from the small ones.
Tol Vir
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#238 - 2015-04-29 14:10:53 UTC
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:
Siginek wrote:
Erica Dusette wrote:
People see the fights and action these groups get involved in. It's epic ^^ People want to be a part of that, they join large, successful groups because they want to have that fun too. The corps grow, so do the fleets. It's natural evolution and that is nobody's fault at all. We can't seriously expect corps to start limiting member intake or fleet sizes. It's just not gonna happen.

So we need to start looking at other solutions to off-set the natural evolution of these things and in the end a lot of that is going to come down to environmental stuff. It just is. People can yell at the big groups all they want, but the reason they are big is because the are successful and people are always going to want to be involved in that. Big fleet fights, cap kills, all that stuff is why I stopped flying solo and wanted to join real corps for serious action. Didn't you?.



For long time there were lot of smaller groups fighting each other, no hard feelings, everybody had fun and WH life was fine and healthy, but some time later few of theese groups started to work together and wiping smaller groups for sport and thats the point where life in WH went to hell ...
And to your question ... i would love to be part of group that managed to be king of the hill by making themself better than other, but still having same chances to win as enemy did
But i definitelly wouldnt want to be part of this "group" that basically blobs and bullies everyone out of sport because they are biggest in WH, thats not fun, thats not even remotely fair, thats just big kid beating small kids one after another ...


Then why don't the small kids grow a pair, team up and take on the 'big boys' with the same numbers.



They don't even need to do that. I am sure there have been a couple of times we have ended up talking to a corp in the chain and organised a fight where we shipped down and came in with less dudes to give them a fair fight.

I would say to any corp if you want to have a fair fight but only have limited numbers or dont want to risk a t3 fleet convo us and we will either bring similar numbers or ship down into t1 cruisers or w/e it takes to get a fun and fair fight.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#239 - 2015-04-29 14:28:13 UTC
So a smallerish number of C7 w/ a mandatory c7/c7 connection that has large mass limits to allow routine epic fights between the large groups that live there. I'm surprised none of the big entities that are craving pvp haven't chimed in w/ "Heck Yeah - let's do this"

It gives you the access to big fights your are looking for and the small number and c7/c7 static guarantees you'll get what you're asking for. If you're looking for more connectivity, then make the C7 have 3 statics - a c7/c7 and 2 others. If you want to make static farming desirable, then make the c7 mechanics such that you make more isk/hr going into your c7 static and taking another gourps sites.

Can one of the bigger groups point out why they don't think this would be a good idea?
Zara Arran
Overload This
#240 - 2015-04-29 14:28:44 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
it's really easy. you take all the 300man groups, make them into 50-100 man groups and remove all their blues.


First of all: http://i.imgur.com/ygK4XFZ.jpg Get it right!
Second of all: Jack, might want to start with your own corp.

In all seriousness, the teaming up (even against what some people are calling "farmers") is the biggest problem. And this is something you guys control yourselves... If they are really farmers, you should be able to fight them with on your own anyway. A lot of these groups that team up are 300+ char-groups, and then they find it weird that smaller starting pvp groups don't want to move to C5/C6's.... Or that when they finally don't team up (correct term again is purple guys!), people don't trust them to be alone..

Come on.