These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Science & Industry

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Patch notes for Mosaic: ore/mineral compositions?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#1 - 2015-04-27 22:19:31 UTC
Patch notes: http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-mosaic

Are those patch notes missing details such as either a reduction in batch size for refining, or a reduction in ore volume?

With just those changes as listed, "high end" ores have dropped in value by about 50% due to removal of the higher-end minerals they used to contain.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2015-04-27 22:26:25 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
With just those changes as listed, "high end" ores have dropped in value by about 50% due to removal of the higher-end minerals they used to contain.
As I understand it the doubling of the material requirements for production should cover this reduction.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#3 - 2015-04-28 03:59:55 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
With just those changes as listed, "high end" ores have dropped in value by about 50% due to removal of the higher-end minerals they used to contain.
As I understand it the doubling of the material requirements for production should cover this reduction.


I don't share your optimism. Hisec still has access to these minerals, and the ores in hisec are now worth more per cubic metre than the nullsec ores. If the value of Mexallon etc increase, the ores still accessible in hisec will become even more valuable, while pushing down the value of tritanium and pyerite which are the bulk of the value of the newly adjusted nullsec ores.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#4 - 2015-04-28 10:47:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Selaria Unbertable
Mara Rinn wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
With just those changes as listed, "high end" ores have dropped in value by about 50% due to removal of the higher-end minerals they used to contain.
As I understand it the doubling of the material requirements for production should cover this reduction.


I don't share your optimism. Hisec still has access to these minerals, and the ores in hisec are now worth more per cubic metre than the nullsec ores. If the value of Mexallon etc increase, the ores still accessible in hisec will become even more valuable, while pushing down the value of tritanium and pyerite which are the bulk of the value of the newly adjusted nullsec ores.



In my calculation, the "high end" ores gain quite a bit of value per m³. Have to update the prices, but so far, almost all of them are above 300 ISK/m³, while the high sec ones are in the range of 170-200 ISK/m³.

What CCP forgot to adjust are the volumes. Hemorphite now has a compression ratio of over 1:110 (compared to the volume of the refined minerals, the intended ratio is about 1:20), assuming max. skills, due to the removal of pyerite and mexallon and the addition of way too many tritanium. One unit of compressed Hemorphite now has a slightly higher volume than one of compressed Veldspar, but more than five times the amount of Tritanium in it.
Have to check the volumes of the compressed ores once the server is up again, but I doubt this was intended...
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#5 - 2015-04-28 11:15:57 UTC
Selaria Unbertable wrote:
In my calculation, the "high end" ores gain quite a bit of value per m³. Have to update the prices, but so far, almost all of them are above 300 ISK/m³, while the high sec ones are in the range of 170-200 ISK/m³.


(at current mineral prices)

Once the bot-aspirants in nullsec have done their duty, it'll all be back down to about 200ISK/m3. I give them about two months, tops.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#6 - 2015-04-28 11:23:15 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Selaria Unbertable wrote:
In my calculation, the "high end" ores gain quite a bit of value per m³. Have to update the prices, but so far, almost all of them are above 300 ISK/m³, while the high sec ones are in the range of 170-200 ISK/m³.


(at current mineral prices)

Once the bot-aspirants in nullsec have done their duty, it'll all be back down to about 200ISK/m3. I give them about two months, tops.


You're right, that might happen. We'll see.
Kisle
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-04-28 13:09:25 UTC
You know it is extremely more difficult to bot in 0.0 than in high sec? :)
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#8 - 2015-04-28 13:13:44 UTC
Kisle wrote:
You know it is extremely more difficult to bot in 0.0 than in high sec? :)


LOL

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#9 - 2015-04-28 13:15:32 UTC
The ores are showing up as having refining batch sizes of 100 in-game at the moment. I don't have a batch of arkonor handy, is this the actual batch size? If those refining quantities are for a batch of 100, that puts Arkonor at about 750 ISK/m3 right now!

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#10 - 2015-04-28 13:19:26 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
The ores are showing up as having refining batch sizes of 100 in-game at the moment. I don't have a batch of arkonor handy, is this the actual batch size? If those refining quantities are for a batch of 100, that puts Arkonor at about 750 ISK/m3 right now!


Yep, batch size is 100 since... Crius I think? For every ore, both compression and refining. And 750/m³ is quite a lot Oo
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#11 - 2015-04-28 13:20:28 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Patch notes: http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-mosaic

Are those patch notes missing details such as either a reduction in batch size for refining, or a reduction in ore volume?

With just those changes as listed, "high end" ores have dropped in value by about 50% due to removal of the higher-end minerals they used to contain.


If you go on the 'F&I board' and look for CCP Fozzie entry on the new null/low ore values you will see a full list of the new compositions. If you look at the comments about three down you will find a link from Steve Ronuken showing the old values. Except if Steve has updated his site it may no longer show the old values.
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#12 - 2015-04-28 13:33:08 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
With just those changes as listed, "high end" ores have dropped in value by about 50% due to removal of the higher-end minerals they used to contain.
As I understand it the doubling of the material requirements for production should cover this reduction.


I don't share your optimism. Hisec still has access to these minerals, and the ores in hisec are now worth more per cubic metre than the nullsec ores. If the value of Mexallon etc increase, the ores still accessible in hisec will become even more valuable, while pushing down the value of tritanium and pyerite which are the bulk of the value of the newly adjusted nullsec ores.



Currently the price of Tritanium & Pyerite have fallen by about 10% and the price of Mexallon has fallen by nearly 20% since the initial Fanfest announcement on making null-sec self sufficient. The price of Zydrine and Megacyte have approximately trebled in price plus the requirements for them have doubled.

The 'market manipulators' think the price of 'low-ends' will collapse down to very low levels and the price of Zydrine & Megacyte will rise a lot higher. Aside from this being very bad for the game I doubt this will happen to a great extent or as far as they suggest. But it is probable that prices will continue as they going for a while further.

I do agree that (null-sec) miners cannot control themselves or their actions though so eventually they will dump so much high end minerals onto the market that the Zydrine & Megacyte prices will collapse back down quite a lot.
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#13 - 2015-04-28 13:34:54 UTC
Selaria Unbertable wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
With just those changes as listed, "high end" ores have dropped in value by about 50% due to removal of the higher-end minerals they used to contain.
As I understand it the doubling of the material requirements for production should cover this reduction.


I don't share your optimism. Hisec still has access to these minerals, and the ores in hisec are now worth more per cubic metre than the nullsec ores. If the value of Mexallon etc increase, the ores still accessible in hisec will become even more valuable, while pushing down the value of tritanium and pyerite which are the bulk of the value of the newly adjusted nullsec ores.



In my calculation, the "high end" ores gain quite a bit of value per m³. Have to update the prices, but so far, almost all of them are above 300 ISK/m³, while the high sec ones are in the range of 170-200 ISK/m³.

What CCP forgot to adjust are the volumes. Hemorphite now has a compression ratio of over 1:110 (compared to the volume of the refined minerals, the intended ratio is about 1:20), assuming max. skills, due to the removal of pyerite and mexallon and the addition of way too many tritanium. One unit of compressed Hemorphite now has a slightly higher volume than one of compressed Veldspar, but more than five times the amount of Tritanium in it.
Have to check the volumes of the compressed ores once the server is up again, but I doubt this was intended...


Aye hell of a lot of Tritanium in Hemorphite now. 2200 per batch I think.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-04-28 16:05:42 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
The ores are showing up as having refining batch sizes of 100 in-game at the moment.


Been that way for almost a year now. Refining batch sizes were changed with the rest of the refining/reprocessing changes in Crius.
Paranoid Loyd
#15 - 2015-04-28 16:29:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Mara Rinn wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
With just those changes as listed, "high end" ores have dropped in value by about 50% due to removal of the higher-end minerals they used to contain.
As I understand it the doubling of the material requirements for production should cover this reduction.


I don't share your optimism.
I wasn't really trying to convey anything, certainly not an optimistic outlook, just telling you my understanding of the logic behind the changes. Half the time I think "the logic" is purposely flawed just to troll us. Blink

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2015-04-28 23:03:30 UTC
I'm not seeing the loss in value. Even with some older prices (when zyd and meg were both under 1000isk) the value went up.

If I'm to point out a trend, it was the removal of certain minerals in ore and replacing it with an existing or newly added mineral for compensation.

My spreadsheet only shows Cronkite and gneiss(?) getting the shaft with barely a percentage point of movement up or down.

Mind sharing how you came to the -50% conclusion?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#17 - 2015-04-28 23:30:55 UTC
My site was updated pretty quickly. Smile by 14:30

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#18 - 2015-04-29 04:16:39 UTC
Rowells wrote:
I'm not seeing the loss in value. Even with some older prices (when zyd and meg were both under 1000isk) the value went up.

Mind sharing how you came to the -50% conclusion?


PEBCAK*, I have been not mining for so long that I entirely missed the refining batch size being adjusted to 100.

* I believe the contemporary vernacular is "derp"

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#19 - 2015-04-29 07:52:45 UTC
Based on current Jita prices of minerals, the best ISK per m3 is Monoclinic Bistot, for compressed Glazzed Hedbergite, although I haven't gotten around to comparing mineral prices to compressed ore prices on my spreadsheet yet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11YWJMGIQGWLCGlWwERFJvv0tpNM6cUh-5JvimQ_B1T0/edit?usp=sharing
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#20 - 2015-04-29 08:42:19 UTC
I've lost the ability to read threads like this other than in the voice of Sheldon Cooper applied to all posters.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

12Next page