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Inconsistencies in EVE

First post
Author
Dradius Calvantia
Lip Shords
#21 - 2011-12-26 21:29:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Dradius Calvantia
Defecanda wrote:
Also, if EVE tried to address relative motion, it would be not be playable or certainly not fun.


I disagree. I have found many games with either Newtonian (dragless) motion or orbital mechanics not only playable, but far more rewarding and complex than games with atmospheric or other simplified flight models.

See:

Orbiter (Combat Multi-player Mod)
Infinity Combat Prototype
Jump Gate (Classic)
I-War

Even Elite managed to convey a much more realistic form of space travel than we have now.

Edit: Some of those games did have small amounts of drag, and/or some limits on top speed. However, they strove to provide as close to a realistic representation of space flight as they possibly could, and in many ways succeeded.

Edit Edit: You are not a real gamer until you can slingshot around Jupiter, Aerobrake through Saturn's outer atmosphere, and pull off an orbital injection burn to finish in a geostationary orbit around Titan (Extra points for finishing off at the Titan Saturn L1 point instead). God I love Orbiter...
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#22 - 2011-12-26 21:38:21 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
The fact that you only have engines on one side of your ship. To turn around, slow down and be as agile as the ones we have now, you'd need them on every face.

Howcome we can warp through planets?

Why is a fighter drone 23m long yet 5,000m3 in mass?

How did I get here?


The engine one was answered, those 'engines' you see are just exhast vents from whatever equipment and its best to have those venting behind the ship instead of into the flight path.

The device responsible for motion is agravity pull drive and have to be constantly on the more pull the create the harder it becomes to maintain the pull thus the submarine mechancis and why the ship stops when its you stop pusing the pull drive. Thankfully the drive doubles up as the inertia compensator as well.

Warping has been explained as stepping out of reality to break some laws that are impossible to break in our reality, apperantly we make a massive gravity bubble that rips though normal space frabic to circumvent into a similar space to ours without any of the mass we normally see there existing in that plane of reality.

Plank bubbles that mass is only taken into consideration for storage and transports. Its why you get an implosion error anytime you try to shove a can into another can.

Birds and the bees.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#23 - 2011-12-26 21:40:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Dradius Calvantia wrote:
Defecanda wrote:
Also, if EVE tried to address relative motion, it would be not be playable or certainly not fun.


I disagree. I have found many games with either Newtonian (dragless) motion or orbital mechanics not only playable, but far more rewarding and complex than games with atmospheric or other simplified flight models.

See:

Orbiter (Combat Multi-player Mod)
Infinity Combat Prototype
Jump Gate (Classic)
I-War

Even Elite managed to convey a much more realistic form of space travel than we have now.

Edit: Some of those games did have small amounts of drag, and/or some limits on top speed. However, they strove to provide as close to a realistic representation of space flight as they possibly could, and in many ways succeeded.

Edit Edit: You are not a real gamer until you can slingshot around Jupiter, Aerobrake through Saturn's outer atmosphere, and pull off an orbital injection burn to finish in a geostationary orbit around Titan (Extra points for finishing off at the Titan Saturn L1 point instead). God I love Orbiter...


Eve is a bit more interested in player interaction though the game you describe above would almost require eve to refocus that as a center peice to make it work right.

Though I wouldnt mind a bit more newtonian stuff in here I can see it be a hellish nightmare to corrdinate a fleet drop.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#24 - 2011-12-26 21:42:50 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
how come in my 2006 EON mag it said i would be able to see my implants in WIS? but when incarna came i saw no implants? WTF?!?!?!?


/em Scratches back of the head,
yup they're still there I can certainly see and feel them my character slowly stops at the implant spots too from where I could have easily seen it before I grew my hair out.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Solhild
Doomheim
#25 - 2011-12-26 21:48:29 UTC
CONCORD

Perfectly happy to destroy a ship and permanently end the lives of the crew, many of whom would surely be innocent.

Will not pod a capsuleer, the guilty party who already has a clone waiting somewhere!!??!!??

Bunkum
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#26 - 2011-12-26 21:48:49 UTC
The reappearing resources - from asteroids to moon goo to NPC pirates, is probably one of the biggest inconsistencies I can figure.

It also flies into the face of what many people say that this game is supposed to be all about: PVP and interaction with other players.

Look into world history, and you can boil most of the conflicts from civil wars to world wars down to one thing: scarcity. Conflict comes from scarcity or as a means to prevent it if a resource is recognized as finite.

Now, the endless supply of moon goo and rocks denies the element of scarcity, and lo and behold, 0.0 is all blued up while high sec is a care festival.

Also, the lack of the scarcity element is what facilitates the super-blob warfare problem often referred to about this game. Imagine if every steel mine had unlimited ore, and every country could therefore have the biggest navies they could put together? Even the "super powers" have limitations. I recall that in the 1970s the CIA had to set up a front company to buy much needed titanium for fighter jets from the then Soviet-controlled Russia.

The second "unlimited resource" is related: ISK. Once more, because of bounties and missions. There is no limit to missions and you would think that an organization like the Serpentis or Guristas would eventually figure out that they are just losing ships in every belt they send ship to - and what do they do when they are there? Nothing.


The permanent and never-ending resource pump is the one thing that has made this game what it is today, such elements of things regarding the blob-warfare, ISK-snatching, and NAPed up 0.0 space that almost everybody complains about, is the one main inconsistency that comprised a 50 lb tumor in a 20 lb dog.

Fix this inconsistency, then the game gets to be all about PVP just like everybody keeps saying it should be.


And for all those racking up the ISK (for no reason) and for all those who are sitting on their moon goo enterprises and cap fleets (for no reason) who would howl and cry about it: bye.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2011-12-26 21:49:31 UTC
- the fact that you have to go through the same invention process over and over and over again - a society that has developed warp technology has obviously forgotten how a simple pen and paper works, to take some friggin notes that you do not have to repeat the whole invention thing every single time.

- the fact that megacorporations invest billions in the creation and maintenance of capsuleers, but leave them after that completely alone and do not seem to care who they work for.

- the fact that there exists warp technology and torpedoes, yet all battles are fought at about maximum 100 km distance and nobody has ever thought of equipping a torpedo with a warp drive to hit targets several systems away.



I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Jerera
#28 - 2011-12-26 22:53:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerera
Why are all stargates 50000 times HEAVIER than the sun? This doesn't make any sense. Considering the volume of your average stargate, it is so dense it can't actually physically exist as it is.

[NB: I did the math.]
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#29 - 2011-12-26 22:57:35 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Also, surely explosions work through the combustion and expansion of air; therefore, how can we make non-nuclear explosions happen in space?


And nuclear explosions in space are basically EMP affairs. There is no atmosphere to deliver a concussive force.
Marduk Nibiru
Chaos Delivery Systems
#30 - 2011-12-26 23:02:54 UTC
Defecanda wrote:
Also, if EVE tried to address relative motion, it would be not be playable or certainly not fun.

- Fail


Why?
Marduk Nibiru
Chaos Delivery Systems
#31 - 2011-12-26 23:05:35 UTC
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
Also, surely explosions work through the combustion and expansion of air; therefore, how can we make non-nuclear explosions happen in space?


And nuclear explosions in space are basically EMP affairs. There is no atmosphere to deliver a concussive force.


Ever wonder how rockets work in space?
Velicitia
XS Tech
#32 - 2011-12-26 23:08:13 UTC
Solhild wrote:
CONCORD

Perfectly happy to destroy a ship and permanently end the lives of the crew, many of whom would surely be innocent.

Will not pod a capsuleer, the guilty party who already has a clone waiting somewhere!!??!!??

Bunkum



capsuleer ships have very little crew. They also sign a "yep, my life is worthless" agreement with the capsuleer.

Jerera wrote:


Why are all stargates 50000 times HEAVIER than the sun? This doesn't make any sense. Considering the volume of your average stargate, it is so dense it can't actually physically exist as it is.

[NB: I did the math.]


think it has something to do with the (artificial) wormhole that they generate whilst active.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

MYSTERY ALT
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2011-12-26 23:10:41 UTC  |  Edited by: MYSTERY ALT
How awesome it used to be to have a showdown between two groups with a dread fleet, backed up by a sniper fleet being harassed/probed (by probed i mean very heroic pilots flying right into the blob from 200k's away, not scanned) by tacklers compared to how things work now

EDIT: (im in a bitter sort of mind frame right now, back to making skill plans)
Kolya Medz
Kolya Inc.
#34 - 2011-12-26 23:12:33 UTC
Armor tanking ships having big gaping holes in their armor, like the apoc and prophecy hulls.
Palmput
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#35 - 2011-12-26 23:40:40 UTC
Jerera wrote:
Why are all stargates 50000 times HEAVIER than the sun? This doesn't make any sense. Considering the volume of your average stargate, it is so dense it can't actually physically exist as it is.

[NB: I did the math.]

People used to be able to bump stargates. This caused lots of rage, so they upped the mass so high that not even a Titan can move it.
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#36 - 2011-12-26 23:43:08 UTC
Local.

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.

Alara IonStorm
#37 - 2011-12-26 23:56:06 UTC
Ivan Joukov wrote:
For damage types think about tanks ammos in real life for exemple, there is pure explosive heads (HEAT missiles), pure kinetic projectiles (APDS),
A Heat round is just as much a Kinetic Weapon as APDS rounds. The explosive Shockwave is still a Kinetic Blow as is the impact of Shrapnel. Any Heat from the Explosive would be Thermal but any Inpact the Ship suffered would be a Kinetic Impact.

[quote=Ivan Joukov]
a high velocity bullet with explosive head would be kin / explo, etc... The thermic damage in Eve is all about temperature, think of lasers and plasma. Damage types in Eve sound OK to me.

Why would it be kin / explo. Any type of psychical impact is covered by Kinectic Dmg and all heat from the explosion is covered by Thermal. Thermal is not just Lasers and Plasma, Hybrid Slugs do it as well.

What bugs me is Therm is srong to Shields weak to Armor, Kin is Strong to Shields weak to Armor but an Explosion or the 2 somehow is Stronger against Armor then a Kinetic Impact despite being less of a factor against Armor.

Damage Types sound Ok from a gameplay perspective but they do not make sense at all.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#38 - 2011-12-27 00:16:28 UTC
Heat rounds? those act like minature nukes once they penetrate.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Krawdad
The Racket
#39 - 2011-12-27 00:27:19 UTC
The info for Tritanium says, "Very common throughout the world." Which world?
Max Von Sydow
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2011-12-27 00:36:33 UTC
Solhild wrote:
CONCORD

Perfectly happy to destroy a ship and permanently end the lives of the crew, many of whom would surely be innocent.

Will not pod a capsuleer, the guilty party who already has a clone waiting somewhere!!??!!??

Bunkum


I think it is explained in some chronicle that the crew can evacuate in just a few seconds and most likely they start getting out as soon as the capsuleer does whatever it is that will get them concorded.