Wormholes

The difference between shattered (which are struggling to find a place) and C7 as proposed is pretty large.

C7 w/ moons means folks can move in. They can be evicted. They can build and that can then be destroyed.

Shattered are just multi connected battlegrounds that really aren't being used that much.

If I've leaned anything over the past decade (more or less) it's that adding more PVE plus signs has never improved the game. Oh I get that they are needed, but they don't make the game better. When I say game I'm referring to pvp (epic fight, hauler gank at a customs office, ganking a pve fleet). Red Plus Signs DO NOT make better content. PVE is a means to isk. The eve community is smart enough as a whole to disect any pve that CCP lays at our feet and post a guide for by the end of the week. Red plus signs are not the answer to more fun.

Just as any new PVE will be mastered quickly, any change to pve that 'drives conflict' or 'creates content' will also quickly be broken down and 'safe farming' will be mastered. It's what we do folks, and we're good at it. Moving farming to the static will more than likely add as much content to the game as the mass/range change did.

Another thought w/ C7 wh. All the good, marginal and outright terrible ideas that have been put forth in this thread can all, any or not be implimented in them. It would be an empty canvas. Go nuts CCP - create. And it's create on the cheap I would think. Just add a few systems and optimize them for large wh groups. The mandatory c7/c7 connection would be the key to conflict. It would make a c7 honey hole not possible. You can even throw in some cool extra benefit for being there (and I personally don't care what that would be).

I completely agree here. I had an idea at one point for a kind of "hyperspace" that linked to w-space but was, in itself, super-connected. Shattered space could very well fill this role. The one difference or differentiation that I had was that this hyperspace contained some kind of resource that was desirable in both a PvE and PvP context making it something to be fought over. With the advent of the Entosis link, it actually plays quite nicely into this idea. Using a similar capture mechanism, these resources could be harvested/owned by w-space entities while providing contact points for combat.

What this resource actually gets used for could be quite varied. One idea could be to remove boosting entirely from w-space while implementing this and require this resource to be the "fuel" for boosts either system wide (using a structure benefitting PvE) or fleet wide (PvP). There could be plenty of others including fuel for new T3 modules, etc. etc.

I think this had the potential to benefit all of w-space while also giving it something unique to fight over. low-sec has faction warfare, null-sec has sov, but w-space lacks something specifically driving conflict other than the inherent social drive. Give people some kind of incentive to be out in space more and you'll find the fights naturally follow.

Honestly, there are only a few people complaining about WH PVP that I know of. I think W-space is in a good spot right now, but some groups who have grown too large complain that no one wants to fight a blob. Well....no ****... take a note from NoHo and split up and fight each other if this is an issue.

I don't want to see anything make it easier for large groups to form and dominate everyone else. Current w-space allows for large groups and promotes banding together, which is fine, but it also means not many will fight them because they have alot more members to throw around and its more difficult to bring friends in.

I don't blame large groups for growing large and using all of their members, because I totally would and I would say anyone who says otherwise is lying to a degree. However, it is also up to these groups to cull their own members or split up if they "fall victim to their own success"

I like the current WH meta and would prefer to keep it than change it but if CCP can put in some cool new mechanics that make smaller groups more viable than large ones I am open to it.

IDK, we see plenty of PVP, more is always better but not when we get outnumbered every single fight. We hide from those people for obvious reasons. If they want to bring smaller groups in we fight them just like anyone, but alot of groups like Lazer have a reputation within my group as "don't fight them they'll kick your trash everytime with overwhelming numbers" so we don't we don't like losing **** only to placate large groups and I don't think anyone does.

I don't think Lazer or HK would like it any better if a full BL or PL fleet invaded their home and they couldn't call in any backup. They would get blobbed and ***** just like anyone else.

Either way, I think people are just victims of their own success and need to get over it. Then again, I have never been that successful so I rarely run into that issue.

stop talking in a mirror

#RecallCorbexx


As for PvP content in WH space, it does seem to be a lot lower than this time last year. I've been having a lot of luck in lower-class WHs though, even if it's just harassing locals to try to get them to come fight me.

i agree with this point. C4 space is where it's at for OCD probe addicts. The example image you give, above, is weak and pathetic chain. We regularly have double that amount of systems in our chain.

But guess what? Most times it's all empty space. Lack of fights is not solely a problem in C5-C6 space.

The new fozziesov POS mechanics could help promote more activity, if done right. I've blogged recently about the potential problems i see with it, and made comments on the relevant threads, but as it stands right now content in w-space is either arranged fights - which i tend to avoid because it's mostly " Wait for it...we aren't ready...wait for it....wait for it...oh hey here's our batphone! Or we just pinged jabber and 20 other dudes logged in and we reshipped to hard counter you!" - or prompting fights and batphone bonanza by beginning a siege.

Reputedly the weekend's LZHX + HK fleet, after dunking their dreads on a Snigg-powered batphone, got sick of structure grinding in subs and extracted because the batphones kept ringing and people kept turning up to fight them. Also, they had made their point and got their fight, and it was a pretty good fight from the looks of it. Well, at least a lot of capitals died and then it was mass-guardian stalemate subcap folkdancing pointlessness thereafter.

So that's always the problem. You have to threaten the enemy to get a fight. Putting a timer on someone via RFing a POS is about the most absolute a threat as you can give someone in w-space. In C5-C6 space you can use dreads, which greatly assist in reducing POS defences. But in C1-4 space you're stuck using subcaps and some POS's are just too boring to attack without a really good sore buttock to propel the effort.

if you can somehow maintain hermetic hole control to deny the batphone you don't often get a fight, but if you can't maintain hole control, often what looks like 16 guys swiftly turns into 80+, like some disastrous siege we were invited along to attend on the weekend.

So, the problem is both mechanical and cultural.

There's a mechanic lacking to force content on people. In lowsec and nullsec the moon goo cash machines act as a conflict driver. One R64 moon can provide billions of ISK income for zero real effort (or close to zero) for a whole alliance. Other alliances covet it, and hence conflict.

In w-space the only resources which are unequal are system effects and moon count, given static choice is as much about farming and k-space luxury as anything else. So, basically, W-R's and Magnetars in high-class, followed by Pulsars for low-end farmers (fools, income is in your static). C4 Cats are the domain of Russians, who deploy stronk domiballs. And that's it, aside from mentioning how unpopulated E545/N060 Class 2's are, generally, and K346 C3's.

Most C5-6 Mags, Pulsars and Wolfs are already farm holes or owned and inhabited, and so heavily fortified it's laughable. C4 space is a bastion in and of itself because it's low-class no-caps but people tend to not be disorganised cowards, and aside from that there's enough empty space that no one needs to fight, and there's no free income, and sieges are so fraught and prolonged and prone to the cultural problems.....yeah, conflict is lacking.

If statics choice, effects and moon limits aren't enough to provoke conflict, then the only solution would be to add in income fountains which alliance-level people could covet and want and thus recreate the R64 mafia in w-space. Which would basically just entrench the current players at the expense of everyone else.

I'm still waiting for Chance Ravine to weigh in on this.

He's only 2 minutes in to a 30 minute spree of staring at a Retriever wondering if it's bait before attacking it and discovering it is actually AFK. Give him time.

I can guarantee if you see one lazerhawk, you'll have about 40 of them in your hole within seconds of any c5/c6 activity. We played with them, when it was 4-5 vs 4-5, but usually they bring the mass **** in when they come.

Anyways on another note, ccp says the pos situation is for content...

Corps with multiple pos's with private pos's shouldn't fall under a content blanket. I don't know of any company I have worked for that gave me complete access to everyone's email information. Their should be way more control for pos's than currently is implemented. Let's say person A in a corp wants to have their own pos, however the corp will still have access to it, for under attack reasons. The person A shouldn't have the ability to go into any other pos and be able to access what they can do in their pos in some elses.

The stargate idea needs to go away, there is a reason why people live in wormholes, if you can't scan you live in null, or ls.

Make wormholes more lucrative. Enable moon mining, wormholes should have everything null/low has, but in high quantity. If you want more activity, make it to where people want to move there for the risk. It's far more riskier in wh than anywhere else.

The highsec ore sites still give a good amount of ore, to where roving bands seek these out to provide what they require to build items.

So will any of these bizarre ideas listed in the OP actually be put forward to CCP like they are an agreed upon consensus of WH space communities views or will you just be pointing them in the direction of this thread Corbexx?