Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Jump drive usage isn't a playstyle it's a tool. People don't jump because it's fun, they jump because it give them benefits. Not everyone jumps, since most ships (the ones used by newer or more casual players) don't have jump drives. By the Phoebe changes, the capital, supercapital, JF and jump bridge network owners (who are clearly not newbies or casuals) are nerfed, so the rest are better off.

AFK mining/ratting isn't a playstyle, it's a tool too. People don't "play" AFK because it's fun (it can't be since they aren't there to experience it), they do it because it give them benefit. Casual players don't have the time (by definition) for 10+ hours of farming, new players don't do it since they aren't invested in the game yet, nor they have the skills to earn significant income by it (10 hours of Venture mining is still crap income). By the proposed changes those who have the tools (veteran) and the commitment (no-lifer or botter) are nerfed, so the rest are better off.

Wow, talk about wanting your cake and eating too. Yes, I see your point on the JD, JBs, etc. However, AFK mining/ratting is indeed a play style choice. A player can do those things actively or (semi) AFK. That many choose the semi-AFK approach does not make it a tool.

And your proposal will hurt both the new and the older players whether the older player plays 10 hours or 1 hour. As I pointed out I know more about the game than a new player. I also have more skill points and can fly better hulls, with better fits, and I have deeper pockets. In every way I have the advantage. By limiting the playing time of new players you are limiting their ability to catch up. In fact, I play far, far less now that I did early on....so it will very likely hurt newer players even more. For example, lets take this gem of yours,



Lets take this as true, for the sake argument. If 10 hours of venture income is crap...what do we call 1 hour? Absolute and utter sh*t income? How do you think a beginner would feel knowing that he has 1 hour to mine in that venture whereas I can log in and in that same hour cycle quickly through my alts/accounts and re-start my planets for PI and earn several orders of magnitude isk that he can?

Plus there is some sort of weird envy basis to your argument. My ability to play (PvE) is nerfed even though I can probably still make more than new players can as missions and mining are the main sources of new player income...which they'll need to buy the skills I already have not only bough, injected, but also in many cases skilled to level 5...so I'll still stomp all over them. Plus there are other things I can do to make isk that a new player will still be disadvantaged at. I could try trading, setting up a reaction farm, and as you yourself noted some income generating play will not be directly nerfed...so I can do those...better than the new player. For example, I have several alts that are also quite well skilled at inventing. I already have deep pockets so I can buy lots of datacores, raw inputs, and so forth to do T2 manufacturing. Plus, I know how invention, manufacturing and so forth works. I also have researched BPOs and piles of BPCs. And I'm not limited in terms of my time for making income in this way. Since for many new players this is not even an option until several weeks or even months into the game I'll just earn more and more and more isk while your suggested PvE fatigue will limit the amount of time these players can do things to earn isk (missions and mining).

You keep stating your basic premise over and over as if mere repetition will somehow make it true.



Not quite. As an older player with a number of fairly decently skilled characters I have LOTS of options in terms of making ISK. Being an established member of a null sec alliance is another bonus. Notice that reaction farms are NOT one of the processes that are subject to fatigue. I could start a reaction farm and for a few hours a month make billions. I could easily make a billion isk a month and dodge the PvE fatigue issue as well. And as I noted invention/manufacturing are not going to be subject to fatigue and I have characters who can do that too. So in a month and avoiding PvE fatigue I could rake several billion a month. Note, I'm dodging fatigue for the most part so I'm not a "no lifer". In fact, I'll probably spend quite a bit less than the 30 hour "PvE" cap each month doing this.

What does a new player have in terms of building wealth? Missions and mining at first. Then if he has maybe another older/veteran player or a very good corp/alliance he might be guided into something else that he can do to help with making income such as showing him how manufacturing and research works so he can try to make isk via T1 manufacturing. But even that wont add that much. He could try trading as well, but if everyone is trading it becomes less profitable (more competition will drive prices down towards their manufacturing costs leaving less room for arbitrage).

Malcanis once wrote the following,



Gevlon's suggestion fits the bill perfectly here. He keeps saying this is for the good of the new player, but a new player who plays for more than 30 hours a month is going to get his game nerfed when it comes to acquiring wealth. And that lack of wealth will mean slower skill accumulation. Leaving him with the crap end of the stick.

"Choosing other hulls" is available for PvE players hitting the fatigue: they can grab a hauling ship and do contract hauling or buy low, haul, sell high. They can grab a Noctis and salvage what they've (and others) killed. They can grab a salvaging destroyer and loot/salvage after suicide gankers. Finally, they can grab their brain and figure out how could they use their limited farming time better.


Absolutely and totally not. Competition in real world is about performing better and not longer. No one suggests "flip burgers for 16 hours a day, 7 days a week" as a way of getting rich. They suggest to study and get complicated and well-paying jobs like doctor or engineer. Currently in EVE "being skilled" is secondary to "have lot of time". A scripted bot, "who" is dumber than the dumbest person possible is more successful in EVE than most players. EVE supposed to be a hard game and not an easy but very grindy one.


Indeed, and that's why newbies should learn early on to not mine in a Ventrure at all. He should find higher paying jobs from other players (mission salvager, hauler, SRP-living PvP-er) instead of getting crap income from Venture mining and L1 missions and try to compensate by "playing" for 10 hours a day.

My point is that your suggestion will actively stop players from performing their preferred activities. Whether bots can be more successful is irrelevant to whether a player chooses to perform a task or not. If you don't like afk miners I would suggest that as a PvP player you go and gank them to change their behaviour. It would be a good use of your time whilst sitting out jump fatigue timers. Jump fatigue does not stop you engaging in PvP but simply curtails excessive power projection. Your suggestion actively limits others activities.

For example I and many others I know will mine whilst at work. We are ATK and depending on who is behind us will have the window open or at least fly properly tanked procs/skiffs. This gives a continued supply of minerals to markets and puts targets in space. It's up to other players to disrupt that, not some crappy mechanic. Jump fatigue is different in this sense as there was very little (if anything) that anyone could do to interfere with a massive fleet jumping stupid distances.

Totally agree. If somebody has a day where he can play Eve all he wants (wife is out of town, whatever) who the **** is Gevlon Goblin to say, "No!"? Just some complete shiptoaster.

Aside from the point on the top of his head what point would that be? That somebody using Isboxer still has an advantage? Well there is an obvious solution to that. Ban Isboxer completely. Now trying to run 10 accounts will be very difficult. So much more simple, so much more elegant, and we don't have to take a giant crap all over the new players.

well duh....you can go salvage for random players. (sarcasm ofc)

If they even let you lol.

First there is the trust issue. That noob could be an honest guy. Could also be setup for the warp to for people who can't even be assed to run a CO cloaked and roll the dice I won't see the probes fast enough. I pve I do it solo in empire. Paranoid a bit too much? Maybe. Has it avoided at least one gank set up? Most likely.

Then there is the whole well I trained my noctis or marauder for a reason. You got mouths to feed eve wise....so do I lol. Down to 1 hour cutoff...you won't be getting my scraps. I kind of need them more with this


Or you could haul. In which case if that is your life's goal....I'd recommend working for red frog. What op seems to overlook is public access hauling is crap really.

basically this idea is like curing athletes foot by blowing off your foot with a shotgun. To be honest...we are better off with the botters and farmers. Not even sure where he gets the pvp imba here. Null farmers, aka null bears, are about as risk averse as empire bears. They just fake the funk by saying but yeah I am in 0.0. knew many a null bear...you could set your watch for weeks on end by their login time. Just not on planned op nights.

Botters the same really. HAte to pick on the region and if better these days please correct me but...a few years back lets just say drone residents by and large didn't flock there for the allure of ample pvp.

Out of curiosity...what was the 1 for?...

this is a really bad ide...

as long as i pay for eve, no one is going to tell me how long i can do what i like to do in eve.

Salvaging is apparently PvP as it wouldn't get a fatigue timer (IIRC). Which further highlights the nonsensical nature of this proposal.

Your post can be, if I may put words in your keyboard, be best summarized by Malcanis' law. As you point out...we've already run up a good portion of the learning curve and the skill curve. This proposal absolutely will not help the new players. It will make the game more complex and at the same time be more limiting.