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Crime & Punishment

 
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Half year, 200B collected, 1T destroyed: donate for destruction

Author
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#161 - 2015-04-27 18:47:35 UTC
Alp Khan yet again provided a few pages of copy-paste from wikipedia to avoid even trying to address anything that was mentioned. Namely that he claims that NC. is a serious enemy of CFC who deserves support (both ISK and pilot hours) while MoA is not, despite NC. failed every strategic attempt against CFC in the past years and their killboard is a joke.

Please note that he was the first in the topic who even mentioned NC., previous propagandists went by the old "MoA is irrelevant" or "MoA just provides content."

Now, I indeed cannot prove that MoA can defeat CFC. MoA clearly haven't destroyed the CFC yet. My point is that if the CFC is defeatable, then it will be MoA who do it, since they are the #1 CFC killers for months in a row.

"MoA doesn't take Sov" is true, but irrelevants since no one takes CFC Sov, the CFC won every single Sov war since I'm in EVE. The only reason they don't have all the Sov is that they give to badly chosen allies who failcascade/turn on them/get stomped when CFC leaves. The question is who should we place our hopes on?
- MoA who takes no Sov but kills lots of member ships and lose little
- NC. and other N3 entities who take no Sov, kill few CFC ships and lose a lot in return

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com

Big Lynx
#162 - 2015-04-27 19:45:57 UTC
Syds Sinclair wrote:
..Eve literally turned Gevlon crazy.

Back in his WoW days, his blog posts were very useful and thought out, even if he did go overboard every now and then with his hate for "M&S".

Eve Gevlon is a completely different person. It surprises me to this day that he continues to cite logical fallacies and straw men argruments as fact. I'm not even sure if it's all to save face at this point. Eve is a cold harsh place and not everyone is up to the task, as demenstrated in Gevlon.

Eve turned Gevlon from a rational economical goal driven gamer into a pitiful attention seeker full of denial.

Gevlon is the Village Idiot, on the galactic scale. His blog is front page headline news of the galactic idiot's latest blunder.

So true.
Eyrun Mangeiri
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#163 - 2015-04-28 04:30:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Eyrun Mangeiri
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
- CFC purposefully avoids crushing NC. because the NC. propaganda makes competent PvP-ers join and be harmless while they could join MoA and defeat you. You want to "are you chicken McFly" me into supporting NC. because giving them money is total waste.


If I were competent at PvP and looking for a new home I would join PL, or BL but not MoA. Killing AFK ratters is not exciting. Crushing multiple alliances at the same time and turning the tide of a war like PL did is fun.

I can see what you see not - vision milky then eyes rot. When you turn they will be gone - whispering their hidden song.

Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#164 - 2015-04-28 12:50:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Amyclas Amatin
Eyrun Mangeiri wrote:
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
- CFC purposefully avoids crushing NC. because the NC. propaganda makes competent PvP-ers join and be harmless while they could join MoA and defeat you. You want to "are you chicken McFly" me into supporting NC. because giving them money is total waste.


If I were competent at PvP and looking for a new home I would join PL, or BL but not MoA. Killing AFK ratters is not exciting. Crushing multiple alliances at the same time and turning the tide of a war like PL did is fun.


Suddenly squish.

Also, to keep the conversation going...

We're better than everyone. And we have jackets to prove it.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"

Gericht
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#165 - 2015-04-28 15:10:42 UTC
Quick question for Gevlon.
You keep assuming that because you give an alliance money ALL kills they make can be directly attributed to you.
Now that you have discontinued your support for the fountain core, are you going to do one of your extensive analyses to show that is true?
It's real easy. Check the amount killed when you supported versus the amount killed versus the amount when you do not support. The difference should be your effect. You can use that to , as you say, de-whore your contribution. Then you can apply that to MOA and get a real estimate of your effect on the Imperium instead of just claiming all their work as your own.
I'm surprised you've never done such an analysis as you spend so much time on that with regards to a person's killboard.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#166 - 2015-04-28 15:15:35 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Alp Khan yet again provided a few pages of copy-paste from wikipedia to avoid even trying to address anything that was mentioned. Namely that he claims that NC. is a serious enemy of CFC who deserves support (both ISK and pilot hours) while MoA is not, despite NC. failed every strategic attempt against CFC in the past years and their killboard is a joke.
Actually, it's been answered multiple times, you've simply ignored it because you don't understand how EVE works. MoA don't achieve any strategic objectives, NC. do. So no matter how many bling fit kills they get on their killboard they'll still be no threat to a significant sov holding alliance. You ignore this now as you always ignore facts. You have preconceived opinions of what you think the facts are and you keep working the data in different ways and ignoring everything that doesn't match what you think until you satisfy your own thoughts, regardless of how ridiculous it looks to an external party. Amusingly from you're own figures, you've accidentally shown that the losses caused to the entire coalition could be written off by ratting income alone, and yet that's another fact you've glossed over.

Let's make it really simple - If MoA were as significant a threat as you make them out to be, then we would be destroyed or rapidly heading on our way to destruction. We're not. So I guess MoA are as irrelevant as everyone else is.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Antylus Tyrell
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#167 - 2015-04-29 02:08:08 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Alp Khan yet again provided a few pages of copy-paste from wikipedia to avoid even trying to address anything that was mentioned. Namely that he claims that NC. is a serious enemy of CFC who deserves support (both ISK and pilot hours) while MoA is not, despite NC. failed every strategic attempt against CFC in the past years and their killboard is a joke.
Actually, it's been answered multiple times, you've simply ignored it because you don't understand how EVE works. MoA don't achieve any strategic objectives, NC. do. So no matter how many bling fit kills they get on their killboard they'll still be no threat to a significant sov holding alliance. You ignore this now as you always ignore facts. You have preconceived opinions of what you think the facts are and you keep working the data in different ways and ignoring everything that doesn't match what you think until you satisfy your own thoughts, regardless of how ridiculous it looks to an external party. Amusingly from you're own figures, you've accidentally shown that the losses caused to the entire coalition could be written off by ratting income alone, and yet that's another fact you've glossed over.

Let's make it really simple - If MoA were as significant a threat as you make them out to be, then we would be destroyed or rapidly heading on our way to destruction. We're not. So I guess MoA are as irrelevant as everyone else is.


MOA has no interest in taking sov. They are an insurgent force fighting a guerrilla war against a massive enemy. So you say what they kill does not matter but what does matter is how many systems they control in a sov system that most people cannot be bothered with because it is so broken? Yes you cfc people have lots of systems... have fun with that.


Gericht
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#168 - 2015-04-29 05:17:00 UTC
Antylus Tyrell wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Alp Khan yet again provided a few pages of copy-paste from wikipedia to avoid even trying to address anything that was mentioned. Namely that he claims that NC. is a serious enemy of CFC who deserves support (both ISK and pilot hours) while MoA is not, despite NC. failed every strategic attempt against CFC in the past years and their killboard is a joke.
Actually, it's been answered multiple times, you've simply ignored it because you don't understand how EVE works. MoA don't achieve any strategic objectives, NC. do. So no matter how many bling fit kills they get on their killboard they'll still be no threat to a significant sov holding alliance. You ignore this now as you always ignore facts. You have preconceived opinions of what you think the facts are and you keep working the data in different ways and ignoring everything that doesn't match what you think until you satisfy your own thoughts, regardless of how ridiculous it looks to an external party. Amusingly from you're own figures, you've accidentally shown that the losses caused to the entire coalition could be written off by ratting income alone, and yet that's another fact you've glossed over.

Let's make it really simple - If MoA were as significant a threat as you make them out to be, then we would be destroyed or rapidly heading on our way to destruction. We're not. So I guess MoA are as irrelevant as everyone else is.


MOA has no interest in taking sov. They are an insurgent force fighting a guerrilla war against a massive enemy. So you say what they kill does not matter but what does matter is how many systems they control in a sov system that most people cannot be bothered with because it is so broken? Yes you cfc people have lots of systems... have fun with that.




I don't think anyone here is saying MOA is bad at what they do. Their playstyle is the 'lets see what quick expensive kills we can get'
And they do this by targeting AFK ratters, careless haulers and targets of oppertunity.
And they do this well.
However, they are doing this against a target that can easily absorb these losses without it impacting it, which is also the smart thing to do. It's kinda like hunting. You don't target the herd that will die off if you hunt it, you target the herd that will recoup its losses so you can keep hunting.
And this is where Gevlons logic fails. He assumes that MOA is able to destroy the Imperium by actions that have been shown to not affect the Imperium's ability to survive.

On a personal level, where I a MOA pilot, I would be annoyed at Gevlon's rethoric that claims that because he tosses MOA spare change every month, each and every succes made by MOA pilots and MOA FC's is actually his. With the added implication that before Gevlon's charity MOA was utterly helpless.
I suspect that were the donations to stop there would be no significant change in the amount of kills by MOA. But hey, free money :)
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#169 - 2015-04-29 06:54:36 UTC
Antylus Tyrell wrote:
MOA has no interest in taking sov. They are an insurgent force fighting a guerrilla war against a massive enemy. So you say what they kill does not matter but what does matter is how many systems they control in a sov system that most people cannot be bothered with because it is so broken? Yes you cfc people have lots of systems... have fun with that.
Great, MoA don't want sov. Then they will never take down our coalition. It's really that simple. You can call it guerilla war if you want, but even guerilla war has overall strategic aims. This isn't war at all, it's just going out and getting some kills for fun. Nothing wrong with that of course, but Gevlon's idea that we're gonna lose some ratters then collapse to the ground screaming "the end is nigh!" is ludicrous, anyone with even vague ideas of what common sense is should be able to see that.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Big Lynx
#170 - 2015-04-29 06:58:16 UTC
Gericht wrote:



On a personal level, where I a MOA pilot, I would be annoyed at Gevlon's rethoric that claims that because he tosses MOA spare change every month, each and every succes made by MOA pilots and MOA FC's is actually his. With the added implication that before Gevlon's charity MOA was utterly helpless.


The only thing Gevlin wants is attention, he is bathing in it and singing, cause he seems to have some fetish or disorder regarding to it (maybe because of insufficient rl capacities/activites) . We give him enough fodder, so he doesn't stop to post irrelevant nonsense claiming to be relevant.

Antylus Tyrell
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#171 - 2015-04-29 10:35:41 UTC
Gericht wrote:

On a personal level, where I a MOA pilot, I would be annoyed at Gevlon's rethoric that claims that because he tosses MOA spare change every month, each and every succes made by MOA pilots and MOA FC's is actually his. With the added implication that before Gevlon's charity MOA was utterly helpless.
I suspect that were the donations to stop there would be no significant change in the amount of kills by MOA. But hey, free money :)


I doubt any MOA pilot would see it that way. I was in MOA before Gevlons donations and after, and there was a real tangible difference. Before, alliance FC's were more hesitant to use more expensive doctrines, if you lost a ship on a strategic op you would get a gift "basket" of captured loot for your srp. Everyone was expected to buy and replace their own ships. After the donations started you could expect to see your srp in isk form minutes after the end of an op.

It meant that we killed more, since we did not have to worry as much about funding our pvp. So yeah I would be happy to give Gevlon credit for many of my kills.
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#172 - 2015-04-30 17:35:45 UTC
You still deny to see the problem here: no one takes CFC Sov. So MoA not taking it is irrelevant statement.
My point is that MoA at least does something that at least annoys some CFC pilots. Others do nothing. So our options are:
- MoA (and other similar non-sov taking, CFC killing groups)
- give up

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com

Gericht
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#173 - 2015-05-01 04:20:34 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
You still deny to see the problem here: no one takes CFC Sov. So MoA not taking it is irrelevant statement.
My point is that MoA at least does something that at least annoys some CFC pilots. Others do nothing. So our options are:
- MoA (and other similar non-sov taking, CFC killing groups)
- give up


If your goal is to annoy some Imperium pilots temporarily, you are indeed succeeding.
If your goal is to subsidize MOA so they roam more your are also succeeding.
If your goal is to create more content for both sides, you are also succeeding.

But your stated goal is that your donations will destroy the Imperium. And that is where you are clearly not succeeding.
Part of this is that I gather from your posts here and your blog that you truly do not understand how other people might still enjoy the game when they are not killboard green or squeezing the maximum amount of ISK/hour out of it.
For many of us ISK is a tool, not a goal. A tool to buy the ships we need for the goal of entertaining ourselves for a few hours. And as long as we get enough of that it's utterly irrellevant that it is theorethically possible to get more.

If you truly want to destroy the Imperium you'd be much better off starting a good in/out game dating service as RL commitments to a families is what makes CEO's / FC's and other admistrative types eventually quit.
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#174 - 2015-05-02 17:33:52 UTC
Gericht wrote:
If your goal is to annoy some Imperium pilots temporarily, you are indeed succeeding.
If your goal is to subsidize MOA so they roam more your are also succeeding.
If your goal is to create more content for both sides, you are also succeeding.
But your stated goal is that your donations will destroy the Imperium. And that is where you are clearly not succeeding.

That's obvious. The pure fact that the Imperium still stands shows that I have not succeeded. Yet.

Also, I'm just one man, how on Earth could I destroy a 40K coalition? In 2014 the damage increase of MoA since the donations and the permawar of Marmite caused 5% of CFC losses. +5% damage obviously won't destroy anything. But imagine 20 Gevlons. That's +100% damage. That would clearly make difference. Winning 20 v 40000 would be pretty good.

Of course I'm not 20, just one. All I can do is showing what I alone can achieve to motivate people to step up and do the same instead of following orders from someone who begs money from me while drunk.

I also want to show PvP pilots that MoA and similar organizations are the real elite and not PL or NC. who fail to defeat anything but BRAVE or infighting Russians.

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com

Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#175 - 2015-05-03 03:18:53 UTC
Look at my killboard, I'm elite too! ...except that my solo kills are probably in the single digits... or lower. But since I mostly fly dps on this character, the stats should be pretty good even when de-whored.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"

Gericht
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#176 - 2015-05-03 04:51:21 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Gericht wrote:
If your goal is to annoy some Imperium pilots temporarily, you are indeed succeeding.
If your goal is to subsidize MOA so they roam more your are also succeeding.
If your goal is to create more content for both sides, you are also succeeding.
But your stated goal is that your donations will destroy the Imperium. And that is where you are clearly not succeeding.

That's obvious. The pure fact that the Imperium still stands shows that I have not succeeded. Yet.

Also, I'm just one man, how on Earth could I destroy a 40K coalition? In 2014 the damage increase of MoA since the donations and the permawar of Marmite caused 5% of CFC losses. +5% damage obviously won't destroy anything. But imagine 20 Gevlons. That's +100% damage. That would clearly make difference. Winning 20 v 40000 would be pretty good.

Of course I'm not 20, just one. All I can do is showing what I alone can achieve to motivate people to step up and do the same instead of following orders from someone who begs money from me while drunk.

I also want to show PvP pilots that MoA and similar organizations are the real elite and not PL or NC. who fail to defeat anything but BRAVE or infighting Russians.


And this is where you once again show not to truly understand how to apply statistics to a real world, or game worlds as it may be.
You've shown this before, with your advices on how to make money and your error seems to be the assumption of some unlimited pool of ISK goods, demand and players. This is not the case, EVE is sharply limited in all of those.
If 20 people did what you did barely anything would change. Because while give ISK to MOA lets them fly shinier ships it does not help them recruit. There are only so many people that like their form of playstyle and the vast majority of those are already in MOA or similar NPC null corporations.
At the same time, IF their actions become annoying enough to distrupt the ISK flow of the Imperium there will be more active fleets countering them, whereas MOA's preferred targets are unaware ratters/haulers. Thus lowering their potential targets.
If that is not enough, AFK ratters will just make a neutral highsec alt and run missions for ISK a while, nearly completely removing targets, which means MOA gets bored and either has to go full sov attack or move out, which is the opposite of what you want.

But this first assumes 20 players who like you seem to be content day trading and running obscure mission lines all without cutting into each others profit, who then need to also share your (RP-ed or not) dislike of the Imperium.
So far that number of players appears to be 1.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#177 - 2015-05-03 05:38:18 UTC
Titan.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

flakeys
Doomheim
#178 - 2015-05-03 07:10:45 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:


Also, I'm just one man, how on Earth could I destroy a 40K coalition? In 2014 the damage increase of MoA since the donations and the permawar of Marmite caused 5% of CFC losses. +5% damage obviously won't destroy anything. But imagine 20 Gevlons. That's +100% damage. That would clearly make difference. Winning 20 v 40000 would be pretty good.




SHIVERRRRRRRRR , HELL no .Shocked

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Nilaie
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#179 - 2015-05-03 08:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Nilaie
I've been gone for a year... There are a few things that haven't changed.. Spaceship Barbie is still in Amarr selling 1 trit for 3.2 billion isk, isk doublers, Boom Boom Longtime's bounty (probably higher now), and Gevs mindless ramble.

I am in the actuarial science profession for an insurance company and Gevs, the way you break down your data it's as if you want something to be there. Some of the conclusions you come to I can't even follow.
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#180 - 2015-05-04 16:53:07 UTC
The April data is ready.
The top CFC killer is once again Mordus Angels with 153B
Second place: Out of Sight.: 128B
Third: The Marmite Collective: 94B

NC. did 64B during an ongoing war. Anyone wants to place his trust in them instead of Mordus?

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com