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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

First post First post First post
Author
AayJay Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4221 - 2015-04-27 18:36:21 UTC
GankYou wrote:
It had never been the intention by the game's Founders for the player to simultaneously run 10 accounts comfortably and efficiently, hence why most of us average out at 2.4 accounts since the Dawn of Time.

Living in wormholes wasn't intended either, but look what happened there. Are players who live in wormholes somehow bad?
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#4222 - 2015-04-27 18:41:41 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Wormholes should be at the forefront of potential Wealth acquisition precisely because there is a lot of investment and risk involved, and precisely because it is a relatively new industry - T3 prices have room to fall, still. Blink

I'll update this post with ISK Faucet and sinks metrics later on - also do consider that Wormhole activity for the most part is not an ISK Faucet, as it is similar to mining, which is resource acquisition, and incidentally needs to be matched to the ISK inflows minus sinks.

http://i.imgur.com/wybDyAB.png

The "Commodities" is presumably Overseer Effects and WH blue loot.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2hsqEvPGWQ

One could argue that you could have 50,000 bots getting Bounty ISK from CONCORD, and the same number mining, and then it all balances out.

Who would want to play in a game like that? Perhaps these guys - EVE China Server(Serenity) 49-U6U Battle For PIBC View

That server is licenced to a Chinese sub-contractor Tiancity per Chinese law, and I have no idea how much say CCP has in the way that it is managed with all the ensuing mechanics.

That was more Supercaps and Titans destroyed than in TQ BR-5RB - http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65959/1/3_-_Ships_Lost_Comparison.png

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-49-u6u-slaughterhouse

That's how they roll. With 8k PCU players. Blink
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4223 - 2015-04-27 19:08:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
GankYou wrote:
One could argue that you could have 50,000 bots getting Bounty ISK from CONCORD, and the same number mining, and then it all balances out.
The difference is that we are not talking about bots here. If we were, I'd be firmly on your side.

Just for you by the way, I'm going to migrate to using eve-o preview (which has been certified my CCP as not breaking the EULA in any way) and open 5 accounts today, then another 5 in a couple of weeks.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

AayJay Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4224 - 2015-04-27 19:42:42 UTC
Single tower in a C5/6 wormhole with a static C6: 1b +/- depending on type and modules
Assuming that, like 99% of wormhole residents of higher-class WHs make their own fuel.
1x Archon: 1.9b, +/- rigs and whatnot
1x Moros: 3.5b, +/- tank or faction mag stabs
1x Loki: 500m, no Slaves, can tank C6s.
1x OGB: 300m not counting warfare implant.
1x capital sitter toon, low skills: depending on how far you're escalating, anywhere from 1.5b to 5b +/-.

Tada, you have a C5/6 escalation fleet.

The best part is that you can train the actual site-running toons to also be efficient PI alts and sell excess PI material for profit.
Assuming you don't attempt to move 3000x Nanoribbons in a Heron to Jita, you can make quite a lot of money with minimal work compared to incursions or anom running.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#4225 - 2015-04-27 19:43:18 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Lucas Kell wrote:
GankYou wrote:
One could argue that you could have 50,000 bots getting Bounty ISK from CONCORD, and the same number mining, and then it all balances out.
The difference is that we are not talking about bots here. If we were, I'd be firmly on your side.


We have always been talking about bots, I don't care if said person posts on the forum once in a while - Input Automation = botting, hence OFF WITH ITS HEAD.

Quote:
Just for you by the way, I'm going to migrate to using eve-o preview (which has been certified my CCP as not breaking the EULA in any way) and open 5 accounts today, then another 5 in a couple of weeks.


Looks interesting - http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1306/example%5B1%5D.png

Enjoy the Windowception. Blink

AayJay Crendraven wrote:
Single tower in a C5/6 wormhole with a static C6: 1b +/- depending on type and modules
Assuming that, like 99% of wormhole residents of higher-class WHs make their own fuel.
1x Archon: 1.9b, +/- rigs and whatnot
1x Moros: 3.5b, +/- tank or faction mag stabs
1x Loki: 500m, no Slaves, can tank C6s.
1x OGB: 300m not counting warfare implant.
1x capital sitter toon, low skills: depending on how far you're escalating, anywhere from 1.5b to 5b +/-.

Tada, you have a C5/6 escalation fleet.

The best part is that you can train the actual site-running toons to also be efficient PI alts and sell excess PI material for profit.
Assuming you don't attempt to move 3000x Nanoribbons in a Heron to Jita, you can make quite a lot of money with minimal work compared to incursions or anom running.


Excellent, onward to glory then! Blink
AayJay Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4226 - 2015-04-27 19:45:35 UTC
GankYou wrote:
We have always been talking about bots, I don't care if said person posts on the forum once in a while - Input Automation = botting

OK, let's try a simple exercise.
In your own words, please define "botting" in the context of MMOs.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#4227 - 2015-04-27 19:46:54 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
AayJay Crendraven wrote:
GankYou wrote:
We have always been talking about bots, I don't care if said person posts on the forum once in a while - Input Automation = botting

OK, let's try a simple exercise.
In your own words, please define "botting" in the context of MMOs.


I already have - Automated inputs. It is acknowledged that singular, or limited number of accounts running automation is harder to detect, but their profitability per person is going to be such, as to become a non-factor in the economy.

Is it when the average Joe and Jane fires up ISBoxer and runs 15-20 accounts simultanously in perfect sync - that becomes a problem. Thanks for all the evidence on YouTube, guys!

In the context of Eve: One player - One action per reasonable unit of time. If said person can down a Titan solo while alt-tabbing, then more power to him. - Erebus wanted to go home 25.11.14Blink

But most importantly, read the EULA,

http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/third-party-policies/
Quote:
6. CONDUCT

A. Specifically Restricted Conduct

2. You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played.

3. You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.


Even without Input Automation/Broadcasts function in the ISBoxer, their bullshit Dashboards can also be considered as botting under both 6A-2 and 6A-3. Smile
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4228 - 2015-04-27 19:54:22 UTC
GankYou wrote:
We have always been talking about bots, I don't care if said person posts on the forum once in a while - Input Automation = botting, hence OFF WITH ITS HEAD.
That's an insanely limited view which kind of misses the point about what is wrong with botting. In addition nothing in this thread - not one single rule or discussion - has affected botting.

GankYou wrote:
Looks interesting - http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1306/example%5B1%5D.png

Enjoy the Windowception. Blink
I'm not sure what "windowception" is, but yeah, looks great, better than that screenshot.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4229 - 2015-04-27 22:33:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinete Jenius
For the last time there was no real plex price drop. Sure there was a panic sale that resulted in somewhat of a drop in some areas but prices rebounded quickly.

When people were complaining that plex were costing them +900m I was still buying them daily for under 830m. Even eve-market's price history shows clearly that prices have held fairly steady with a slight rise recently.

I intend to make a new video of my NM fleet running incursions. I am just waiting on CCP to confirm that no matter how fast I manually control I won't be banned. I have no interest in getting banned because I hit 3 commands to 4 clients instead of 3 clients in one second.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#4230 - 2015-04-27 22:49:50 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Kinete Jenius wrote:
For the last time there was no real plex price drop. Sure there was a panic sale that resulted in somewhat of a drop in some areas but prices rebounded quickly.

When people were complaining that plex were costing them +900m I was still buying them daily for under 830m. Even eve-market's price history shows clearly that prices have held fairly steady with a slight rise recently.


https://element-43.com/market/29668/

Steady as a rock.

But I understand you may have no interest in anything Eve-related, apart from receiving big hourly ticks.

Quote:
I intend to make a new video of my NM fleet running incursions. I am just waiting on CCP to confirm that no matter how fast I manually control I won't be banned. I have no interest in getting banned because I hit 3 commands to 4 clients instead of 3 clients in one second.


I won't wish for your computer to explode catastrophically, but I do hope that the EULA clauses 6A-2 & 3 will be enforced in full this coming Summer, as they gain a major player buffer from the coming expansions, in order to do so. Smile
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4231 - 2015-04-27 22:58:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinete Jenius
GankYou wrote:
Kinete Jenius wrote:
For the last time there was no real plex price drop. Sure there was a panic sale that resulted in somewhat of a drop in some areas but prices rebounded quickly.

When people were complaining that plex were costing them +900m I was still buying them daily for under 830m. Even eve-market's price history shows clearly that prices have held fairly steady with a slight rise recently.


https://element-43.com/market/29668/

Steady as a rock.

But I understand you may have no interest in anything Eve-related, apart from receiving big hourly ticks.

Quote:
I intend to make a new video of my NM fleet running incursions. I am just waiting on CCP to confirm that no matter how fast I manually control I won't be banned. I have no interest in getting banned because I hit 3 commands to 4 clients instead of 3 clients in one second.


I won't wish for your computer to explode catastrophically, but I do hope that the EULA clauses 6A-2/3 will be enforced in full this coming Summer, as they gain more player buffer from the coming expansions, in order to do that.

Your link shows nothing of value and I already said I was buying plex for under 840m when there were threads screaming about plex prices being +950m.

Here is a price history to help you out since you seem confused.

http://i.imgur.com/3l98TJj.jpg

There's a traditional seasonal bump in plex prices during november which played out as normal. Prices never dropped after the EULA change.

EULA clause 6a-2/3 is irrelevant. If you would care to try to explain why that matters I'd appreciate it.

EDIT : I don't really care to only look at what plex is being sold at as it's very VERY easy to manipulate that value. The real indicator is probably what people are buying it at before they flip for a profit.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#4232 - 2015-04-27 23:01:52 UTC
I humbly wish you all the best in your future Eve career(s).
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
#4233 - 2015-04-27 23:51:55 UTC
GankYou wrote:
AayJay Crendraven wrote:
GankYou wrote:
We have always been talking about bots, I don't care if said person posts on the forum once in a while - Input Automation = botting

OK, let's try a simple exercise.
In your own words, please define "botting" in the context of MMOs.


I already have - Automated inputs. It is acknowledged that singular, or limited number of accounts running automation is harder to detect, but their profitability per person is going to be such, as to become a non-factor in the economy.

Is it when the average Joe and Jane fires up ISBoxer and runs 15-20 accounts simultanously in perfect sync - that becomes a problem. Thanks for all the evidence on YouTube, guys!

In the context of Eve: One player - One action per reasonable unit of time. If said person can down a Titan solo while alt-tabbing, then more power to him. - Erebus wanted to go home 25.11.14Blink

But most importantly, read the EULA,

http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/third-party-policies/
Quote:
6. CONDUCT

A. Specifically Restricted Conduct

2. You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played.

3. You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.


Even without Input Automation/Broadcasts function in the ISBoxer, their bullshit Dashboards can also be considered as botting under both 6A-2 and 6A-3. Smile


Shocked

0/10 - Obvious troll is obvious. Because if this isn't a troll ...

Shocked

The Nosy Gamer - CCP Random: "hehe, falls under the category: nice try, but no. ;)"

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#4234 - 2015-04-28 00:06:24 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Don't be so hard on yourself for not comprehending. Smile

ISBoxer dashboards fall under, 6A-2 "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify [...] how the Game is played."

and

6A-3 "You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game."

Stay sharp, bot boi. Blink
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4235 - 2015-04-28 00:49:46 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Don't be so hard on yourself for not comprehending. Smile

ISBoxer dashboards fall under, 6A-2 "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify [...] how the Game is played."

and

6A-3 "You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game."

Stay sharp, bot boi. Blink

I don't use any third party programs other then windows and drivers. So I still don't get your point.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4236 - 2015-04-28 06:59:33 UTC
Kinete Jenius wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Don't be so hard on yourself for not comprehending. Smile

ISBoxer dashboards fall under, 6A-2 "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify [...] how the Game is played."

and

6A-3 "You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game."

Stay sharp, bot boi. Blink
I don't use any third party programs other then windows and drivers. So I still don't get your point.
I think his point is proving that he has no idea what's going on. I think it's pretty clear though that what he is mad at is multiboxers in general, manual or not.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#4237 - 2015-04-28 11:54:59 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Indeed, CCP let this circus slide in the hope that PCU numbers would pickup eventually - OOPS! The inverse actually happened.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2ndrl2/the_end_isboxers

Quote:
CCP_Falcon --- CCP Games 152 points 5 months ago
My personal opinion on this question is that I value the integrity of the game, and its overall health more than I value the numbers.
I'd rather see 1 person playing with 19 of his friends, than 1 person using software or hardware to play solo while input broadcasting to 20 accounts.
EVE is a game based around interaction with others, and the action and reaction that comes from it.
Well, that's my personal take on it, at least.


The current management has big enough coconuts to be able to even think of enforcing their own EULA in this regard.

All in due time.

In due time. Smile
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4238 - 2015-04-28 12:26:48 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Indeed, CCP let this circus slide in the hope that PCU numbers would pickup eventually - OOPS! The inverse actually happened.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2ndrl2/the_end_isboxers

Quote:
CCP_Falcon --- CCP Games 152 points 5 months ago
My personal opinion on this question is that I value the integrity of the game, and its overall health more than I value the numbers.
I'd rather see 1 person playing with 19 of his friends, than 1 person using software or hardware to play solo while input broadcasting to 20 accounts.
EVE is a game based around interaction with others, and the action and reaction that comes from it.
Well, that's my personal take on it, at least.
The current management has big enough coconuts to be able to even think of enforcing their own EULA in this regard.

All in due time.

In due time. Smile
Except what we have is 1 person playing with 19 of his friend AND 1 person playing with 20 accounts. These two concepts can work together. EVE will never stop being a multiboxing heavy game. Ever. you've made it clear that it's multiboxing itself, not the use of tools, that you dislike. Tough.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#4239 - 2015-04-28 16:40:03 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Indeed, CCP let this circus slide in the hope that PCU numbers would pickup eventually - OOPS! The inverse actually happened.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2ndrl2/the_end_isboxers

Quote:
CCP_Falcon --- CCP Games 152 points 5 months ago
My personal opinion on this question is that I value the integrity of the game, and its overall health more than I value the numbers.
I'd rather see 1 person playing with 19 of his friends, than 1 person using software or hardware to play solo while input broadcasting to 20 accounts.
EVE is a game based around interaction with others, and the action and reaction that comes from it.
Well, that's my personal take on it, at least.
The current management has big enough coconuts to be able to even think of enforcing their own EULA in this regard.

All in due time.

In due time. Smile
Except what we have is 1 person playing with 19 of his friend AND 1 person playing with 20 accounts. These two concepts can work together.


Except it didn't.

That's the point. Roll
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4240 - 2015-04-28 16:54:45 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Except it didn't.

That's the point. Roll
???? It's obviously did, hence the people still playing the game. ISBoxers had nearly no effect on the game then, all they did were make some people sad pandas when they though someone was making more isk than them. The truth is they were making a very small amount of isk for a very large time and effort investment. Their existence didn't really affect the number of other players playing, just the number of overly entitled players whining about something they misunderstood. Those people whining failed to realise a simple truth - they were jealous because they were terrible at EVE. There's countless ways to earn far more than a multiboxer, and countless methods to crush a multiboxer, but they can't do those, so instead they thought "they must all use ISBoxer, let's get rid of that". Now that's gone, and there's still whining about all the multiboxers!

Multiboxers still exist on a massive scale throughout the whole of EVE. CCP are still running the power of two campaign to drag in more and more alts. That's never going to change.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.