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Bumping out of align mechanic
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Tippia

Sunshine and Lollipops

Likes received: 27,526

#181 - 2015-04-26 17:30:40 UTC

Shai 'Hulud wrote:

Seeing as how a lot of them labour under the confused (read: incorrect) opinion that the current state of affairs is somehow due to CCP not being able to do something, rather than being deliberately chosen, his point not just invalid but downright ignorant.

The simpel fact of the matter is that people are confusing how they wish the game should work and how they think the game is working, with how the game actually works and why. At that point, repeating the clear and explicit statements of facts from the devs is the best medicine against that kind of confusion. His point might have been valid if all those people weren't so fundamentally uninformed about the game mechanics involved and if their arguments for change were based on something other than misinformation and confusion.

Black Pedro

Mine.

Likes received: 3,562

#182 - 2015-04-26 17:45:19 UTC

Shai 'Hulud wrote:

Tippia wrote:

Pohbis wrote:

The same tiresome debate style that has continuously used CCPs lack of action as evidence, until lo and behold, CCP did take action.

No. It's the debate style that has continuously used CCP's clear and explicit statements that it is working properly as evidence for it working properly. Since there is no evidence to the contrary, the only sane and sensible conclusion is that it is working properly. The only thing that has ever been offered to contrast this is myths, hearsay, ignorance, and outright lies and fabrications — none of which works as a cogent or coherent argument for change..

Pohbis makes a valid point. A large percentage of the replies in this thread are just "CCP has said this is legal and working as intended." Which would be fine, if they were addressed toward posts that in any way displayed confusion or ignorance about the current state of the rules. But I don't think I've seen a single person actually confused about the current state of the rules.

It would be like me saying: "I don't like cats, I wish they were illegal."

And you replying: "Well cats are perfectly legal in this town and the mayor has said multiple times that cats are working as intended and ..."

Not only is this a bad approach to convince me cats are not so bad, it feels like I'm talking to chatbot Cry

No one is trying to convince you that "cats are not so bad". They are repeatedly telling you that it is legal for your fellow citizens to own them as pets despite your views on the animal.

If people came here and presented an opinion that they don't like bumpers and what can they do to avoid them (actually, kind of like the OP did) or make their lives difficult then people would have no problem giving advice on why and how the mechanics work. The problem is when certain players decide that there is a problem with the game and start proposing ideas to change the game to solve this perceived problem.

CCP has decided this is how the game will work. You can express your displeasure over it but CCP has made this the mechanic for 10 years and could change it if they want. Complaining about it or proposing fixes, especially after CCP has made it explicitly clear this is the intended mechanic, is essentially just whining.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?

Shai 'Hulud

Likes received: 201

#183 - 2015-04-26 18:24:47 UTC

Black Pedro wrote:

Shai 'Hulud wrote:

...
It would be like me saying: "I don't like cats, I wish they were illegal."

And you replying: "Well cats are perfectly legal in this town and the mayor has said multiple times that cats are working as intended and ..."

Not only is this a bad approach to convince me cats are not so bad, it feels like I'm talking to chatbot Cry

No one is trying to convince you that "cats are not so bad". They are repeatedly telling you that it is legal for your fellow citizens to own them as pets despite your views on the animal.

You proved my point...

Your argument is not something that I disputed. In fact, I must agree with your argument for mine to make any sense...

The most useful slaves are those that believe themselves to be free

Carrie-Anne Moss

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 512

#184 - 2015-04-26 20:13:42 UTC

Dude i will bump you AND YO CATS.

Also, to the dude that said its harrasment if someone bumps only to deny you the right to travel til you pay ransom and doesnt care about looting you...

You aint got NO RIGHT to travel in this game. That is the misconception. You think you should have rights to travel from jita to amarr, you dont have a RIgHT to do so, you have an opportunity to TRY to travel in space, like other have the opportunity to TRY to not allow you to.

Sandbox. Seriously CCP keeps saying this is how they want THEIR GAME to be. Dont like it? Stop giving them money, unsub and go play lord of the rings or wow

Black Pedro

Mine.

Likes received: 3,562

#185 - 2015-04-26 20:20:37 UTC

Shai 'Hulud wrote:

Black Pedro wrote:

Shai 'Hulud wrote:

No one is trying to convince you that "cats are not so bad". They are repeatedly telling you that it is legal for your fellow citizens to own them as pets despite your views on the animal.

You proved my point...

Your argument is not something that I disputed. In fact, I must agree with your argument for mine to make any sense...

Well I am glad we are all on the same page. That happens so rarely in GD.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?

Caldari Provisions Caldari State 14
Drazok Caldari Provisions Caldari State Likes received: 14	#186 - 2015-04-27 14:17:13 UTC The only issue I see with bumping is that it does not trigger any of the aggression or suspect timers. Bumping is a very aggressive action that does not trigger any of the normal game consequences .

Frostys Virpio

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 3,464

#187 - 2015-04-27 15:20:24 UTC

Drazok wrote:

The only issue I see with bumping is that it does not trigger any of the aggression or suspect timers. Bumping is a very aggressive action that does not trigger any of the normal game consequences .

Even if CCP agreed with that, it would more than likely never happen because everybody would go suspect/criminal, depending on which flag you think they should get, all the time in the most active systems.

Solecist Project

Likes received: 33,643

#188 - 2015-04-27 18:08:34 UTC

Frostys Virpio wrote:

Drazok wrote:

The only issue I see with bumping is that it does not trigger any of the aggression or suspect timers. Bumping is a very aggressive action that does not trigger any of the normal game consequences .

The more I think of it ...
... the more this seems to be the perfect solution.

It'd stop all the complaining within a day ...
... because the weak people would leave.

Imagine that!
A game that was once hardcore ...
... returning to its roots.

Cut throat.
Kill or get killed.
No carebears.

Would be interesting to see how that works out.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia


Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops Likes received: 27,526	#189 - 2015-04-27 20:43:56 UTC Drazok wrote: The only issue I see with bumping is that it does not trigger any of the aggression or suspect timers. It doesn't trigger them for the simple reason that it's not an aggressive act, nor does it impinge on the rights of others. So there is no issue — it's pretty much as expected and wouldn't make much sense if it were otherwise.

Shits N Giggles 521
Delt0r Garsk Shits N Giggles Likes received: 521	#190 - 2015-04-28 07:32:37 UTC I still don't get why you don't just log off. Unless they have agresed, you disappear from space in 30secs. And well once they are using offencive mods they need more than one pilot, and if your close to the gate ganks often fail. I have used it. It works. AKA the scientist. Death and Glory! Well fun is also good.

The Scope Gallente Federation 30
Fatal pewpew The Scope Gallente Federation Likes received: 30	#191 - 2015-04-28 08:51:58 UTC \| Edited by: Fatal pewpew i megatank my bowheads and try to carry 3b or less in them, any expensive small mods put in a leopard or other instawarping taxi and move seperate also never not mwd your orca/bowhead as someone who has bumped incursion runners stuff as well as someone who runs incursions if you do the above there is typically someone nearby who isn't.

Kaely Tanniss

The Conference Council

The Conference

Likes received: 1,070

#192 - 2015-04-28 09:35:48 UTC | Edited by: Kaely Tanniss

Pohbis wrote:

CCP does not have a good tool to deal with tackle-bumping in hi-sec. Which is why under the current mechanics they are accepting it, the alternative would be to open the flood gates of manually handing each case in customer support. Which is of course why you have people in here insinuating that CCP would warn you for sending in tickets about this. They know very well that the moment CCP has to spend more resources doing nothing about something that doesn't jive with their intended mechanics, than doing something; well, they will start doing something.

What do you mean CCP doesn't have a tool. The responsibility is YOURS, not CCP's. CCP gives YOU the tools and opportunities to protect yourself. There are many ways to avoid, prevent, or lessen the chances of getting bumped. You have a right to play the game...not a right to be safe. CCP has made it painfully clear (at least you would think) that THERE IS NOTHING WRONG AND IT IS AN INTENDED MECHANIC. If this is an issue for people..play something else because Eve is not for you.

Pohbis wrote:

It's being used for other things than ganking; like in the case of the OP. Holding you in place, and demanding a ransom. Which is why I in this case suggested a ticket for harassment. It was being used solely to deny someone the option of traveling. Not liberating someone of too-expensive-for-your-hold goods.

Yeah...and your point is? Ransoming is another part of the game. You have 3 choices...die, pay the ransom, or take responsibility for yourself and fly with friends or fit your ship accordingly. Again..it's up to YOU to be safe..NOT ccp. Demanding a ransom is NOT harassment..it's part of the game. You have the option to travel...just as others have the option to prevent you from traveling. It's up to you to make it safer.

This thread has become a whine fest and it's really troubling that people can not understand that it is this way because it's SUPPOSED to be. Your money and your SP do not buy you anything in EVE. This is not a pay to win game. You must do what it takes to be safer..you must do what it takes to survive. There is nothing "broken"..there is nothing that needs to be "fixed". You are supposed to use YOUR brain to figure it out for yourselves with the tools provided to you...not ask or depend on others to do it for you. Like CCP Falcon said..."Eve will spit in your eye, knock you on the ground and kick you...and just when it seems it will let you get up..it kicks you down again." He wasn't referring to npc's...he was referring to the other players. Get over it..get used to it...or move on. Twisted

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..

Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2,510
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic Likes received: 2,510	#193 - 2015-04-28 11:57:39 UTC \| Edited by: afkalt WTB bump core stabs I should probably edit in this is a joke, before people roll up foaming about the mouth rabbiting on about higgs rigs.