Wormholes

Why is no one burning out the pve corps in c5-c6 space?
Can someone answer me that?

Serious question, how does that get more PvP in W Space? Are you suggesting that there's hundreds of groups out there who'd love to move in and PvP but can't because there's PvE corps stopping them from setting up?

I'd rather see a bear hole than a vacant one. There's at least the possibility to pew something that way.

Reading some of the thoughts already posted I do agree with some of them:

1 - Decreasing the number of existing C5 Wormholes (maybe C6 as well) as currently 512 of them is ridiculous.
2 - Giving dual statics of which at least of them is to C5 or C6 space (so people cant just farm low class WH's with escalation ISK)
3 - Reduce the number of gas sites and decrease the time they last unspawned, especially in shattered space so you don't have to scan through 40 ******* sigs
4 - Roll back on the K162 and jump range mechanics

Some extra thoughts:
- Increase the chance of connecting to an active/occupied system which can be measured in NPC kills, amount of POS's, amount of kills and amount of individual jumps out of or into the system. Make it a small chance of rolling into an active system so your home hole doesnt always connect but the larger your C5 or C6 chain then the higher the chance of a connection.

- Remove escalations entirely but increase the payout fairly significantly and also the difficulty so that both solo marauder is not effective and you have a reason for committing a Dread or Carrier outside of the escalation to just finish the site quicker or maybe with less people.

Edit:
- Also maybe look at reducing the maximum jump mass on LS and NS Wormholes so capitals can't jump in or out, probarbly regarded as a stupid change but I think in my opinion that it is too easy to move capitals in and out and their are also too many of them, especially in peoples homes , if the only method of having them was to build them then it makes the loss a much harder loss and potentially reduces a large amount of farmers if they have to keep rebuilding their highly prized assets rather than rolling the chain for an entrance.

To all the people wanting less C5 Wh's. Seriously look how well that has worked in C6 space.

Why did all those C6 corps move down to C5 space to then want the problems C6 space had because of reliable rage rolling.

This thread is ********.

The only way you can increase PVP is by going out and looking for it. You can't cry at HK and LZHX for their willingness to go out and find targets. Whilst they're going out looking for things to shoot a lot of corps are sitting around with their hands up their ass waiting for someone to roll into them.

In a C4 without capital ganks we're killing 90-100b a month, in the short time we've been in C4 space. That's more than a lot of "notable" C5 corps/alliances. Last month we had about 16k signatures scanned.

Try shipping into something other than armor t3 and get off your arses, you may find some fights.

Good point maybe we should add not being able to selfdistruct in the pos shields to the list , i forgot about that one.

It used to be fight or you would get evicted. Wich lead to more people fighting and less boring evictions.
Sure you had your grudge evictions but generaly if you pewed you did not get evicted.
Now by eviction the pvp corps there are less targets to be killed wich did fight. Is it any wonder that there is a lack of fights then?
If you leave alone the pve corps who don't give you content and evict those that give content who is to blame?
So if people who evict pvp corps/alliances call evictions content then they should start doing that to pve corps/alliances since by their own definition it is content.
But in any case the more people in w-space the bether.
Lowering number of systems would only make things worse as reinforcements will get there easier meaning that would be an advantage for bigger coalitions.
Specific holes will be found much easier making it harder to hide amounts the masses.
And shattered wh is from a pve standpoint a bust is think(maybe there are numbers corbexx?) , just by looking at the number of sites that keep piling up in them.

I don't mind Thera as it's glorified K space, not W Space. But yah the shattered WH's never needed to exist, it's an interesting thought but hasn't worked so far. Far as I'm concerned, when I see a shattered WH, it's a K space exit and I stop there precisely because of the anom spam in them.

When it comes down to it though CCP isn't going to remove any space anywhere, it won't happen. So finding ways to make those bad areas better should be the plan.

I vaguely remember CCP Fozzie saying he expected to see these systems as neutral grounds for fights between groups. Whelp oki then, change them so they're like that, no one is scanning out a hundred sigs in these places to find the wh's so remove all but the wh's. Add more statics in them so there's more routes through and more people will search them out.

Phew, what a long read.

Here's what I see. Some of the bigger corps are complaining that there is a lack of content. We get this huge thread about how to fix wh. There are a lot of ideas that have varying levels of merit, a few slap fights and some truely horrible ideas.

I think a few corps have outgrown the current wh mechanics. Mass limits are just that - limits. A wh will only support so many folks. There are a few current options out there.

HK sublets pve holes for alts and focuses on pvp w/ the main wh. Seems like a sound solution at first. More guys in the main corp and cut out the pve stuff to keep with the main task of fighting. The plan is solid until you look at the low number of valid opponents. They have a good plan and adaptive leadership, BUT still not happy. WH space doesn't currently support what they want to do. It just doesn't.

I'm just using HK because that's where the thread started and they have actulally tried diffent things (in lieu of just whine that wh space sux). There are other corps in the same bracket. I think in the end, after everything is said and done... some corps are over the size limit that current wh mechanics can support (by support I mean both isk-wise and fun-wise).

So here we are. I personally don't think wh mechanics (because they are pretty awesome) should be changed much if at all because a few groups by thier own choosing outgrew them. It's still pretty awesome for all the other folks. I'm not really of the "screw them and their big corps" mentallity either. Do I prefer small and advocate small.... heck yeah. So what can be done?


Make C7 wh. Make them monsters. Give them lots of moons. Give them dual statics. Static 1 is always to another c7. Give that connection liberal mass limits. NO SUPERS in wh space, but a c7/c7 connection that supports dropping 6 caps through it. You can put 3 in and get them back OR you can go all in and drop the fleet through. Make the second static any of the other flavors of wh. Make the c7 limited in number. This will give large groups that want to do wh pvp on a large scale a place to be big and do big things. The other details (amount of effect bonus and such) can be hashed out by the numbers nerds.

WH space is awesome. It's been awesome and should stay awesome. Null went down the path of catering to a few big folks and changing sov mechanics for all. It didn't go so well. I'd hate to see that happen in wh space. I see the C7 that I've roughed out above as a reasonable solution that doesn't fook up the rest of WH space that we love and is working as intended. Some groups want a big battle ground - so give it to them. I don't think wonking one of the funnest areas of the game for a few big entities is a success path.

TL/DR Give the big guys what they want and leave the rest of the wh space we love in tact.

We shouldn't be trying to increase PVP only to PVP. We should be promoting a "build something great" mindset and then eventually someone will take over. If you promote PVP you get people who all they want to do is throw blobs and someone and that's just a terrible way to play.
Play Eve to Create.
If in that course you must take action and destroy so be it.... But don't PVP mercilessly.