EVE General Discussion

Which they can't in any normal use case.

That's me agreeing that if taken to a theoretical maximum you could tell the difference. But it's not taken to a theoretical maximum. What you seem to be unable to comprehend is that when round robin is in use it's the exact same actions being taken at the exact same rate as when you are doing it manually.

Nobody will be using it 8 times a second every 5 seconds. Nobody will be using it 8 times a second at all, because in reality you are staggering your clients. When I did use round robin back when it was allowed I'd press it once every two seconds for 8 presses, then I'd not do that again until the next time I fleet warped which could be anywhere from half an hour to a few hours. The key issue here is that there is a difference between what in theory a system can be used for an actual use cases which are supposedly banned.

Imagine 2 sets of speakers, one can hit 100db, the other 150db. Now imagine that a law is made that you cannot use speakers that can reach above 120db, even if you turn them down. If they were both playing at 80db and you weren't able to see the speakers and had to go only by noise, you'd not know which is which. That's what we have here. If you "turn up" round robin to 150db, which nobody does, then yes, you can tell the difference. But in a normal situation with normal gameplay there is no difference. Does that help you understand? Or are you going to just bang on about "but but but they check for months!"

I think they should either use client side detection or give up on the idea of trying to ban people for using round robin without banning standard multiboxing. The problem is it's not just round robin, they've made it clear that if you are too efficient compared to some baseline, they'll assume you are using tools. If you continue to be that efficient, you will be banned.

And I am done discussing this with you. You either don't want to get it or you lack the capability for understanding, but in all honesty I couldn't care less what you think. You've admitted quite clearly that you don't actually have any experience with what you are talking about so everything you say is completely and utterly irrelevant.

Which also happens wtih round robin because round robin is also executed manually per press! Pressing too quickly can cause it to do [switch client][F1][F1][Switch client] or any other number of random behaviours. You might press it 5 times it does the first two fine, the third one twice, the fourth fine and misses the fifth.

That's just a random figure pulled out of the air that everyone seems to be throwing around as "You must prove you can do this manually or you pinion is irrelevant". You'd know what is actually done if you'd ever bothered to use the mechanic you are complaining about.

Except they will be getting banned because they will be above the "average player" efficiency threshold which seems to be the main factor. Say for example some genius though "well on average speakers play at 70db, so anything above that we'll ban as they are probably breaking the rules".

I don't think it's going to happen. From what they said at fanfest it's something to do with European laws and privacy and all the usual tears that come with that making it a pain in the ass to do.

Our opinions would matter if people with no knowledge of the subject wouldn't keep turning everything said into a massive argument over basic understanding of the system.

And that really is it. I'm not going on this roundabout again until something different comes up.

It's probably more to do with :effort:
How long did it take them to sort out alliance logos?

Actually I accepted what they were saying at the beginning even though I though it to be complete horseshit, but their original statements and diagrams showed that RR and VFX were not a problem. Later they clarified and since then I've questioned enforcement, know how difficult it can be to detect even with client side detection. I then went to fanfest and took the time to go and speak to the devs to ask them questions about it, at which point they informed me they had no client side detection making me increasingly worried about how they are going to eliminate false positives, because to be quite honest, there's no gameplay benefit to removing RR and VFX, so the tolerance on false positives should be zero.

The thing is, you are here attacking and trolling anyone against CCPs changes here, but you refsue to even learn what it is you are arguing about. I went out of my way before the ban came in to activate an ISBoxer subscription, try out multiple multibox setups, using VFX, using RR, using multiplexing as well as multiple forms of manual multiboxing using nothing, ISBoxer without controls and Eve-o preview. But no, that's not good enough. You want me to not have an opinion about CCPs ability to enforce their EULA fairly and when I do you insult me, as if I'm the one who hasn't jumped through every hoop to understand what's going on.

In an effort do de-escalate this thread i would like to remind all miners and similar bot-aspirants who are buthurrt because they can no longer cheat to calm down and accept that eve is a better game now. Thank you.

Removed a ton of off topic/personal attack/ranting posts. Please don't get to the point where we have to do more about it. Thank you.

By the way, I have been thinking some about round robin. and it is 1 click = 1 action. focusing between clients thought it don't put any commands in eve universe. it just focus the client. it's for an example the f1 that does something, because that is an command sent to that 1 client, (when clicked 1 time) (focusing client after clicked f1'etc don't input anything into eve universe. I suppose. -.o

Exactly, friend.

Situation was approaching such, that the numbers of real players was decreasing and the number of bots increasing in their wake.

In that past 3 years CCP have grown complacent due to success from the 2008-2012 period, letting many things slide in my opinion. Now there is a genuine effort to restore health across the whole of New Eden.



He wanted to successfully use an excavator in a childrens' playground.



Heheheh.

This change had no effect on the number of bots.


This change also had no real effect on plex. Speculators are one of the biggest drivers of plex prices. I've personally pushed up plex prices in some of the trade hubs albeit for a short time. Plex price tends to drop down some after the initial push but the prices themselves never fully return to pre-push levels.

Plex prices over the last 180 days have stayed level despite the change.

So all this basically did was stop people from reaching silly levels of boxing (like 20 gank alts being boxed).

I recently reported a 8 bot account after losing a ship to auto lock and fire literally hours after watching CCP's security vid, which was freaking awesome!! after a few hours of learning bot tactics I was able to kill over 30 of his ships and went all in war dec'ng all his corps account, Two days in the bot was no longer loggin in.

I lost a 100m ship to a cheat/exploit but I killed over a billion of its assets.

Did I need CCPs help? No but I thank them all the same. Good job guys!

I used to design missions for league play for FreeSpace 2 16 years ago and cheat detection for operation flashpoint and ArmA servers for years and know cheat detection is not perfect but can also have defined certainties that work so looking at this thread I can see nothing has change on this topic after 16 years.

Once again keep up the good work CCP!