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How do we increase PvP in C5 and C6?

First post
Author
Help They GotMyMoney
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#101 - 2015-04-26 15:29:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Help They GotMyMoney
Peter Moonlight wrote:

You outnumber people in wspace and take fights only you can win for sure, 80-90% of your killboard is killing ratters in nullsec, and you came here to tell someone something about "w-space powerhouses"?
FYI Lazerhawks usual fleet numbers is 10-25 and most of people know that, except those that cry that we "blob" always, but it is just we are 5x better organized and we win by skill not always because of numbers, and yes we do loose ships too.


That was a sarcastic self-haze right?

Edit: we fight each other at any given chance.

Post with you're main.

Lazerhawks: ¨we are 5x better organized and we win by skill not always because of numbers¨

Kellie Dusette
Division 13
#102 - 2015-04-26 16:18:42 UTC
Andrew Jester wrote:
Kellie Dusette wrote:
Help They GotMyMoney wrote:
Post with you're main.

*your.


you're*

Kellie explain for you, little body, big heart.

"Jester, your face!"

"Jester, you're an ass!"

You can for see now this one make a different?

Even Kellie for know of this, and Kellie for struggle very many much with a talk. Fly a Buzzard.

Lucius Kalari
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2015-04-26 16:20:44 UTC
I think the comments have gone slightly off topic.

I'm all for no cap escalations, but I have a feeling people would go and do incursions instead rather than make people go farm the static. I think we can all agree that shattered wormholes are unbelievably terrible and I believe someone mentioned before about making them more profitable than standard wormholes, I think this is a good idea. Putting gates in wormhole space is an awful idea and so is making wormhole act like gates (As in they're there on overview ready to warp to,) equally as bad.

I have seen plenty of frigate holes that haven't lead to any kills because there isn't really much you can take on in frigate/destroyer fleet unless you are ganking something or jumping into a wolf rayet, and even then you can only bring frig logi which realistically isn't great. Instead of frigate holes, why not convert them to standard wormholes, but keep the rate of them spawning? I would prefer this rather than higher class wormholes having dual statics.

I'm probably right by saying that it has already been mentioned, but why not have something like low-grade moon goo? Give people reasons to come to wormhole space.

If I have preached what has already been mentioned as an idea, I apologise, but I think it's better than crying about who batphones who, or who blobs who blah blah blah. Lets just put ideas out there to try and help make wormholes a better a place, because surely that's what we all want?
Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
#104 - 2015-04-26 16:30:43 UTC
Make farming C5/C6 sites much easier & cut blue isk by half from cap escalations.
Remove all dreads, leave carriers.
Dual statics for C5. Maybe 3 statics for C6 {make em really deadly}
Peter Moonlight
Suddenly Carebears
#105 - 2015-04-26 17:47:16 UTC
Jay Joringer wrote:
Peter Moonlight wrote:

Alliance bookmarks have been suggested few hundreds of times.
Yes there will be powerhouses, there is ALWAYS powerhouses in eve,wspace, kspace, mmo's, everywhere, so get over it.
I saw you guys quite a lot in your chains and it's mostly you trying to higgs a wormhole and roll away from us or you were PVEing. I also went trough your killboard right now to see how you never not outnumber your enemies, and everything I saw is you outnumbering all the people who you fight, and 90% of your kills are in nullsec, and I well know that all you do is roam nullsec and cry in channels for batphones.
So..
You outnumber people in wspace and take fights only you can win for sure, 80-90% of your killboard is killing ratters in nullsec, and you came here to tell someone something about "w-space powerhouses"?
FYI Lazerhawks usual fleet numbers is 10-25 and most of people know that, except those that cry that we "blob" always, but it is just we are 5x better organized and we win by skill not always because of numbers, and yes we do loose ships too.

Also,
Quote:
You don't have to fight with them if you don't want to or have the numbers to do so. Just sit in your pos and smile and wave..

New age is coming to w-space, I know a lot of people who would rather see an active farmhole where they might kill site runners, then guys like you who always roll away, not fight, and loose a solo farming dread in home system/static weekly.

PS: http://kb.lazerhawks.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=19488
You had even more you just didn't got on all km's with everything and there was your guys who stayed on POS, but we totally blobbed you 3:1 in your home system, and we totally had more caps, riiight?


I don't see anything in Odi's post about Lazerhawks, so I don't see why you are getting precious about how you guys operate. We don't have any problems with how you guys do things, but if you're going to have digs at us, you really ought to know what you're talking about. Nothing in your post suggest to me that you do.

While I'm glad you've so shrewdly picked apart our killboard, I'm sure I don't need to tell you that they do tell the whole story, right? Any moron knows that the battle reports don't always show every ship that was on field.

I know of one occasion we tactically massed a midpoint hole in our chain. We were expecting you guys to bring a fleet our way. The massing was there to prevent any engagement escalating into a cap brawl that wouldn't favour us. Then your fleet went some place else. But by all means jump to some dull conclusion rather than take my word for it.

The "calling for batphones" part is awesome. Truly. There's been one occasion. One. And now we get smacktalked about it by Lazerhawks of all people. There's some idiom about pots and kettles that springs to mind...

We're a "powerhouse" obviously and you treated us and some others the way he described which I personally don't like.
dexter xio
Dead Game.
#106 - 2015-04-26 17:54:25 UTC
hi

Dead Game.

Angux Thermopyle
Negative Density
#107 - 2015-04-26 18:28:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Angux Thermopyle
One idea.

Towers are tied to POCO's at Barren or Temperate Planets for Fuel (or some type of unique material the tower needs from a planet).

POCO's send NPC convoy at a set time determined by POCO owner to bring fuel to towers.
Size of the tower determines how big the NPC escort fleet is and how dangerous it is.

NPC convoy flys 40k off POCO then warps to tower
Convoy shows up on D-Scan or Combat Probes
If Convoy is attacked and killed it drops fuel (or special item) which can be scooped and sold for profit.
Alerts are sent out that your convoy is under attack

If convoy does not arrive at tower then:
1 Day - No effect
2 Day- No effect
3 Day- Industry Processes Slow down 50%
4 Day- Industry Processes Stop
5 Day- No additional effect
6 Day- Tower is Reinforced
7 Day- Tower offlines
Ofcourse the timing of what happens when is debatable.

THE CONVOY MUST GET THROUGH

Optional- PvE
Sleepers can interdict your convoys. Or Drifters... or giant space squids... whatever.
They won't leave that POCO till someone kills them.
The Sleeper goup difficulty is determined by WH Class

Benefits:
-Removes time / resource consuming fuel runs
-Small gangs can interdict fuel convoys for profit
-Sieges without having to seed or extract
-Its a way to put pressure on someone without a full on eviction but takes time
-Larger groups can send detachments of pilots to do this in multiple WH's and train small unit leaders
-Smaller defending entities have a chance get a plan together, get in help in or hire Mercs.

Its a big mechanics change but I think this process could apply to many more areas of EvE besides WH's. Imagine if this is how FW sov is determined.
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2015-04-26 18:56:45 UTC
G0hme wrote:
Newt BlackCompany wrote:
Yes. Wormhole space matters to the game. I am not surprised to see someone from PL asking this, but not everyone likes nullsec politics and shenanigans and Wormhole space is a different way to enjoy this game.


You should probably just have quoted the first question as thats the only thing you answered.

And for the record. I've lived longer in Wspace than your character has existed in this game.

I though you meant getting more meaning to w-space?
If so we should push CCP to do what Rhavas proposed in this blog :
https://interstellarprivateer.wordpress.com/2015/04/07/naming-rights-2/

No local in null sec would fix everything!

Siginek
Newbie Friendly Industries
CeskoSlovenska Aliance
#109 - 2015-04-26 19:02:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Siginek
On suggestion of lazerhawks there is created topic about lack of pvp in wormhole and yet, they and their "friends" are main reason of this problem, because they are responsible of end for most groups that could/would provide actual pvp ... and when some pvp comes they just blob everyone ... Right? ... i wonder why cant you find any pvp in high-class wormholes
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2015-04-26 19:09:49 UTC  |  Edited by: unimatrix0030
calaretu wrote:
Gonna throw in a very radical and hated idea. But several have spoken about reducing the size of wormholespace. This is actually possible without going through the "ops your system doesnt exist anymore" route. The suggestion is gates. Yes gates. And here is how: Each system can have 1 gate. And it needs a recieving gate to bond to a system. This way you can bond two systems together effectivly making them into one system (its important that you can't link the gate to a system without a gate on other side and that its a limit on one gate per system. Any more or different lets you bond more systems together and that can go all sorts of wrong). The gates require fuel of sorts (PI?) and can be disrupted by hostiles. Gates bonding c5/c6 system together can carry capitals but gates to lower classes can not (the ability for an invading force to bring gates of their own and bring capital force invasion to a c2 is out of balance). Also require the system to be "owned" in some way to avoid abuse by invading forces that doesn't put in the effort to first take over the system.

So what would this bring to the table?
- Reduce the size of wormholespace
- More connections/2nd static(s) to a group living there.
- More to do and twice the possibility for people to roll into you

Does that sum up the solutions people have come up with so far?

Gates, realy? You must be trolling, big alliances would just string them to gether to be even more invincible... .
The only way to balance that is not doing it.
Some one mention making the number of wormholesystems less in c5 and c6 space.
That will only make the problem worse as it would be easier to bring in more people. Easier to find specific siege targets.
We need ways to get more people in the wormholes not make less holes with less people in them.
Dual statics will not work , because these big group would be batphoning all the time(never saw a 3rd party action). And because of the statics
Maybe also make sure that running c5/c6 sites without caps also gets more isk/hour then c4-c1 sites(not sure if they are).
Or Spawn lower class sites in higher class wormholes, enables recruitment of pilots with less sp that are eager to learn and pvp.
This would allow for smaller groups and start up big groups.

No local in null sec would fix everything!

Tim Nering
R3d Fire
#111 - 2015-04-26 19:46:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tim Nering
just becuase they outnumber you 10:1 doesnt mean for a second that u can not fight them.
Red Fire's response to being a small corp in the era of the "wormhole cfc"

so im not an expert in everything wormholes but i am a expert in being a small corp. Here is what Red Fire does when i got 4 dudes and i got isogen 5 over there with 10 dudes. or maybe lzhx with infinity dudes.

i just uh..... tell them that. just be fkin honest about it and try to arrange the fight.

"hey i only got 4 dudes online im waiting for u at the sun, bring whatever u think u want to kill me, fyi FRAPS is running."
that little line right there is what gets me so much respect from people i find. they make it a 4v4 or a 2v2.

look it is going to be a long time before i can throw down caps and t3s or whatever to fight these guys so i dont pretend that i can. so i call it the Red fire pvp event and make it a game. people respond really well to it and i get some action.

off the top of my head i did this with blue-fire (didnt show up to fight me), isogen 5 (we got shrekt), some french corp i cant remember (won a 2v2 at the sun), ADHC (killed 2 legions with myrm + hype \m/), SUPREME MATHEMATICS (did a lot of frig 1v1s, lost 2 incursus), codename47 which i believe diabanded? (no kills got away in structure tho).

i never did this with hk, lzhx, qex or ssc. tbh havent gotten the chance yet. the most i see of them is running down the chains to highsec or whatever. but i imagine they would do the same thing. also the last time i ran into hk and lzhx they were having an all out t3 brawl 1 jump away from me, i tried to roll the chain and well.... lzhx ganked mah rolling sht... noooooo. XDXDXDXD.

EDIT: i did this with hk last night. nobody showed. 5-1-2014

if you want fights just say so. ppl will fight you. especially a group that is bigger than you! they are prob just so shocked that u havent possed up and logged out. its that whole wormhole honor thing. and if ur a small group like be just... just be real man. tell them whats up and it kinda makes them wan2 make it fair.

Stop Caring Start Fragging! Join R3D Fire Today!

Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#112 - 2015-04-26 19:50:07 UTC
So much bad blood in this thread :sadface:

I've been in w-space now for some one and a half years or so, doing 99% of my pvp solo (if you see others on my killmails, chances are I was double-/triple-boxing).

Looking back I've actually gotten good and/or fair fights from pretty much all of the big entities, and I'm not talking ganks of LZHX or NOHO (RIP) mining barges happily mining away in their respective home systems gg.

All it takes is being a little pro-active, stalking them until you find a good moment to pounce or just trying to separate individuals from the larger group, if you're being outnumbered. Believe it or not, but I see members of the big corps roaming through the chain regularly in groups of 5-10 people, so there is a certain window of opportunity to go after them. I guess most people don't do it, however, because they're afraid of being blobbed or want to +1 them themselves to be safe ... just to miss that window of opportunity in the end.

It's a lil' funny then to read so many complaints about some groups fielding too many guys, when the same thing is being done by the medium sized corps to even smaller gangs or solo pilots like me. In my experience it's actually more likely to get an interesting engagement from the big groups because the smaller ones will often not warp to me before they've assembled an overwhelming force. Why that is, I don't know. Probably because they're just starving for content and everyone wants to be part of it. And I don't blame them ...

I feel like w-space needs a change of mentality/attitude rather than a change of mechanics.

People need to develop a better awareness of the opportunities that are out there right now. If you're slow to react you'll always be the one to draw the short straw.

On the other hand, if someone wins 95% of their fights, then they're clearly not doing enough to achieve a healthy balance. Matching number of pilots on both sides is seldom feasible, because noone can be expected to stay back while the rest of his/her corpies go out to have fun, but it's always possible to ship down. "But we're just so much better than all the other folks, we win even after shipping down!" I say, bring an even weaker setup. Leave logi at home, pass on using e-war. If one group continuously curb stomps the other, it loses the right to complain.
Raquel Saissore
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#113 - 2015-04-26 19:56:51 UTC
Siginek wrote:
On suggestion of lazerhawks there is created topic about lack of pvp in wormhole and yet, they and their "friends" are main reason of this problem, because they are responsible of end for most groups that could/would provide actual pvp ... and when some pvp comes they just blob everyone ... Right? ... i wonder why cant you find any pvp in high-class wormholes


Salty.

Maybe don't roll c6 when you know there is a huge op happening, what did you expect to happen, us have the fleet ignore you? If you guys had any logic you would have ignored the connection and waited for us to roll it.

As for linking exceptional loses like that doesn't fool anyone that knows what's actually going on in high class wormholes.
Siginek
Newbie Friendly Industries
CeskoSlovenska Aliance
#114 - 2015-04-26 19:58:40 UTC
Raquel Saissore wrote:
Siginek wrote:
On suggestion of lazerhawks there is created topic about lack of pvp in wormhole and yet, they and their "friends" are main reason of this problem, because they are responsible of end for most groups that could/would provide actual pvp ... and when some pvp comes they just blob everyone ... Right? ... i wonder why cant you find any pvp in high-class wormholes


Salty.

Maybe don't roll c6 when you know there is a huge op happening, what did you expect to happen, us have the fleet ignore you? If you guys had any logic you would have ignored the connection and waited for us to roll it.

As for linking exceptional loses like that doesn't fool anyone that knows what's actually going on in high class wormholes.


Yeah ... right ... eviction of another active WH corp ... im sure that will help to improve pvp life in high-class wormholes ...
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#115 - 2015-04-26 20:58:55 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
it's really easy. you take all the 300man groups, make them into 50-100 man groups and remove all their blues.
This.
Ab'del Abu wrote:
I feel like w-space needs a change of mentality/attitude rather than a change of mechanics.
And this.

The issue is 100% social, not environmental or mechanical at all.

Both of those quotes literally sum up the whole thing, imo. But being realistic is anything going to change in a social context or in the mindset of wormholers/wormhole groups? Of course not. It's much easier to keep doing what we're doing and ask CCP to change the playing field instead.

This situation isn't inherantly bad though, in my opinion it's a natural evolution of the culture in wormholes (or any part of space as it grows and evolves). It ebbs and flows though, as blue-groups have fallings-out and big players eventually failscade (and they all do/will eventually). But it will keep moving in the direction it's moving now ultimately. So in the end it's unrealistic to expect a change in culture and perhaps looking for changes to mechanics is the only realistic solution.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

MooMooDachshundCow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2015-04-26 21:07:04 UTC
There have been some very helpful responses in this thread about corporation management and content creation. Very inspirational, reminds me about how wormhole space is supposed to be for more serious players than the rest of Eve. That was always a draw for me.

I feel like this thread is asking for major changes and wild ideas. I think the dual static for C5s or C6s could be a boon for the reasons people listed. The fact it would make farmers harder to hide is an ancillary benefit. Other changes to pve that encourage groups over single members would be good too, since they encourage an actual organization instead of just a bunch of friendly solo players with a co-defense pact. Fixing warp to zeros and multi day farming would be good starts.

As an incredibly controversial idea, what if the killing of rats actually increased the chance of spawning a new type of wormhole. This wh type would start in C5/6 space and lead to whatever space had ratting in it. The WH would have a new type that was very short lived but high mass. I think this sort of mechanic would be a good one to add because it would serve to make it easier for active members of WH space to find one another without a major change to something fundamental like number of systems. If these were made to lead to null also to allow killing ratting carriers and such would be a nice benefit as well.

There are many different styles of pvp in wh space. I've always been more of a fan of scanning and ganking, so I'd prefer changes which give more advantage to patient skillful players over the casual sloppy ones. At the same time, as someone who attempts to lead a small organization, making WH space harder to live in, or less lucrative, makes it harder for me to maintain the numbers which ultimately give me the ability to bring pvp to anyone. As such, I'm torn and I don't propose to have the answers. I just continue to try to build my group and bring content for everyone.

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.

Betti Betty
Doomheim
#117 - 2015-04-26 21:16:34 UTC
just want to be part of the discussion ^
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#118 - 2015-04-26 21:18:52 UTC
Kellie Dusette wrote:
Andrew Jester wrote:
Kellie Dusette wrote:
Help They GotMyMoney wrote:
Post with you're main.

*your.


you're*

Kellie explain for you, little body, big heart.

"Jester, your face!"

"Jester, you're an ass!"

You can for see now this one make a different?

Even Kellie for know of this, and Kellie for struggle very many much with a talk. Fly a Buzzard.


your*

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Aimee Arbosa
Division 13
#119 - 2015-04-26 21:21:57 UTC
Andrew Jester wrote:
your*

Watch your tongue erino.

╔═.♥.══════╗

Hnngg ♥ Coffee

╚══════.♥.═╝

Help They GotMyMoney
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2015-04-26 21:29:10 UTC
Hidden Fremen wrote:
Aivo Dresden wrote:
Hidden Fremen wrote:
You could have easily taken on TDSIN on your own. Instead you call in the whole gang.

This is how I know you're just another pitchforker. Who did we bring to evict TDSIN, exactly? It's pure LZHX in here. Bombers Bar came to third-party harass because it was being streamed, but this is a Lazerhawks only operation. Do some research, check your facts before you spout ignorance.


Yes.

Post with you're main.

Lazerhawks: ¨we are 5x better organized and we win by skill not always because of numbers¨