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What is mid to long-term play of Production?
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#21 - 2015-04-23 23:39:02 UTC
Vanessa Bonaventure wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
). Then use some slots to research those BPOs to 10/14 while using others to invent from the copies, then start building.

.


Just getting into industry myself so I'm sorry if this is a dumb question. Why wouldn't you just research the BPOs to 10/20? Why settle on 10/14?

Time constraints?



There are ridiculous diminishing returns on research. 18 to 20 takes as long as 0 to 18.

IIRC assuming you value science line hours the same as production line hours, to recover the time spent researching a Vexor BPO from 10/18 to 10/20, you need to build *more than ten thousand Vexors* from that print.

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Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#22 - 2015-04-23 23:57:51 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
I've found the best way to get into this is to crack open someone else's pos and take a look at what they were doing. It's the best kind of research


Sometimes you get really, really BAD ideas this way.

/looks at the ME 5 TE 0 Talos BPC I looted from a POS a while back...

But, of course, shooting POSes can be lucrative.


One thing you can do is ask around in the Blueprints channel (a busy player channel, usually has as many people in it as Dodixie) if anyone is selling bulk tech 2 BPCs. I recently purchased 10k runs of Hobgoblin II from someone that had been 24/7 copying their T2 BPO. You can buy in much smaller quantities than that too (I've spent about five billion on blueprints, mostly T2 BPCs, in the last couple months, building alliance stockpiles of things we use a lot of, but some of those purchases have been of a hundred million).

While not recent I have cracked open a pos to the tune of 15 bil isk. To be fair profit wasn't on the agenda at the time

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Vanessa Bonaventure
Sunset of Destruction
#23 - 2015-04-24 23:05:19 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Vanessa Bonaventure wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
). Then use some slots to research those BPOs to 10/14 while using others to invent from the copies, then start building.

.


Just getting into industry myself so I'm sorry if this is a dumb question. Why wouldn't you just research the BPOs to 10/20? Why settle on 10/14?

Time constraints?



There are ridiculous diminishing returns on research. 18 to 20 takes as long as 0 to 18.

IIRC assuming you value science line hours the same as production line hours, to recover the time spent researching a Vexor BPO from 10/18 to 10/20, you need to build *more than ten thousand Vexors* from that print.


wow! thank you :)
Shakuul
Infinitus Sapientia
#24 - 2015-04-24 23:24:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Shakuul
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

One thing you can do is ask around in the Blueprints channel (a busy player channel, usually has as many people in it as Dodixie) if anyone is selling bulk tech 2 BPCs. I recently purchased 10k runs of Hobgoblin II from someone that had been 24/7 copying their T2 BPO. You can buy in much smaller quantities than that too (I've spent about five billion on blueprints, mostly T2 BPCs, in the last couple months, building alliance stockpiles of things we use a lot of, but some of those purchases have been of a hundred million).


The thing I really hate about high profitability low price mods is so many of them have extremely short manufacturing runs. I think with good manufacturing skills and 10 slots you do 100 hobgoblins every 1.5 hours. Going through 10k runs requires 1000 clicks and drag/drop operations over the period of about a week to maximize profits. And all of this work nets you less than 100mil? Seems easier to just run missions for a few hours.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#25 - 2015-04-24 23:39:45 UTC
Shakuul wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

One thing you can do is ask around in the Blueprints channel (a busy player channel, usually has as many people in it as Dodixie) if anyone is selling bulk tech 2 BPCs. I recently purchased 10k runs of Hobgoblin II from someone that had been 24/7 copying their T2 BPO. You can buy in much smaller quantities than that too (I've spent about five billion on blueprints, mostly T2 BPCs, in the last couple months, building alliance stockpiles of things we use a lot of, but some of those purchases have been of a hundred million).


The thing I really hate about high profitability low price mods is so many of them have extremely short manufacturing runs. I think with good manufacturing skills and 10 slots you do 100 hobgoblins every 1.5 hours. Going through 10k runs requires 1000 clicks and drag/drop operations over the period of about a week to maximize profits. And all of this work nets you less than 100mil? Seems easier to just run missions for a few hours.


Those sorts of low markup items are things you build when you are already logged on and already doing other things.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#26 - 2015-04-25 02:02:11 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

There are ridiculous diminishing returns on research. 18 to 20 takes as long as 0 to 18.

IIRC assuming you value science line hours the same as production line hours, to recover the time spent researching a Vexor BPO from 10/18 to 10/20, you need to build *more than ten thousand Vexors* from that print.


My rules of thumb:

Only research TE if I can build more in 23 hours. There's no point to a daily builder TE researching any control tower. I *think* smalls can get up to 5 if you research for like 5 months -- phooey.

If I can build more of an item in a day than sell in a day (bombs at my hub), I don't bother researching TE -- a variation on the 23hr rule. In an oversupply scenario, factory efficiency tends to be overrated.

Unless an item is very tight margin, ME 6, 7 or whatever I can grind in a month, 2 max, is usually fine. The extra month or two for a 15% item is tough to justify. If a blueprint gets squeezed down to nil, I can at that time put the BPO back into the cooker.

When I max out production on an item (it happens) I start a duplicate BPO. It's really cool to drop in double-sets of a structure when competition craps out.

I typically have 5 items researching (based on market research) and 80 in my portfolio so wherever the profit is, that's what I'm building.




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