Crime & Punishment

The irrelevant thing comes in the fact that we can go many regions away and make war by conquering delve and such and mordus in their stealth bombers and frigates are ineffectual back home in that deklein and surrounding regions are wholly secure and unthreatened.

Ratters die and ratters must die often to fuel the fires of industry. If nobody ever died in deklein I would be a very poor pilot amongst many others. Please keep financing ratter killers. The ratter killers roam in interceptors or sit on a blops while one poor bastard has to roam around with a covert cyno and never threaten any infrastructure.

The ratter who died was most likely afk after making hundreds of millions, he died. Ok buy another ship (one of mine) and go back to ratting.

MOA feels good about getting a kill and never threatens infrastructure. Goblin feels good about MOA getting kills and keeps logging in day after day grinding isk to give to someone else to pvp instead of hiring like a PL or Ncdot.

Mordus provides content when we come home and get to bash any towers they put up or if someone feels like parking their 12 multiboxed carriers on their undock and setting up a campfire.

Otherwise MOA is pretty terrible content because they only fly slippery ships that run away, they are mostly gankers and not pvp'rs which is fine. They serve a purpose and the game goes on. Its also interesting how Gen Eve gave 50b of your money to his russian friends and is buying a titan, it would be a shame if anything happened to that titan now wouldnt it.

Hes mad because he can never join

Seriously

Actually he probably could join karmafleet easily on a clean alt but he has this need to be heard and recognized and praised for his ideas like when he was in TEST. Alas, the forever war continues..

Farming content is the best.

The content doesn't have to be threatening at all, just content-y.

Actually GSF was one of the most "elite" nullsec organizations and they won by combining numbers with skill

is this the real life?

is this just fantasy??

This is the standard Goon propaganda that used to work until someone started to analyze the killboard. Let's see the last month, March:
- Mordus Angels: 198B
- Black Legion.: 124B
- Sorry We're In Your Space Eh: 96B
Let's compare their performance with the organizations who have all the resources you claim and committed and control oriented and were in a declared invasion against CFC:
- DARKNESS.: 65B
- Northern Coalition.: 99B
- Nulli Secunda: 42B
- The Kadeshi: 57B

You'd like to paint MoA and -EH- as killboard-masturbating kids who cause trivial damage with high ISK ratio, while in reality they cause more than a whole enemy coalition during an invasion - while upkeeping high ISK ratio.

The reason why CFC didn't crush N3 after B-R is that you need them as straw-man. You know that there will always be anti-Goon players and you want them to join these incompetent organizations where they simply burn out. Time and time again one of you suggest me to hire NC. which would cost me 100-200B and be about as effective as investing this money at one of the ISK doubling services in Jita. N3 is merely a black hole that swallows all the anti-CFC and elite-aspirant players, stopping them from finding or forming a group that is (or has the chance to become) a threat.

I never called MoA and -EH- that, but now that you mentioned the definition... But I'd agree with only the first part of your sentence. That is precisely what they are. "Killboard-masturbing kids" as a definition is hilariously accurate. These groups have nothing else to show for any claim towards significance, so killboards bloated with AFK ratters who didn't pay attention and haulers who didn't follow safety procedures are the only metric they can come up with to instill a false sense of significance among their member base.

Gevlon, you are being deceptive again. You've just been caught with your pants down.

Funnily, the damage caused by pirate groups against Imperium includes the damage caused by Black Legion, which is not a pirate organization, but actually a competent mercenary group. Even if we accept your flawed cherry picking and treat them as pirates... And even if we assume they are causing 100% damage to the alliance and coalition assets (far from it, they aren't, maybe BL comes close to significantly causing damage to coalition assets, other not so much), we see that total figures are nowhere near the monthly sum of income of every alliance that is a part of the Imperium. Mr Goblin, You just confessed to pirate groups insignificance yourself.

Ironically, as your own words reveal, you are able to come up with a good analogy and a definition for those pirate groups no one takes seriously. I suspect this is a direct result of your self-awareness regarding their insignificance. And do not assume that readers of this thread are not picking up your hasty retreats towards logical fallacies; you seem to be frequenting straw-man arguments in particular.

Why? Because no serious commentator mentions damage caused in ISK from killboards or ISK ratios in the case of war against a null sovereign entity. It simply is a metric of no consequence. Large alliances such as those who make up Imperium are inherently and independently wealthy as they maintain an active member base. The Imperium is a well governed and administrated coalition, and thus, accumulated wealth is able to be utilized towards achievement of it's goals with high efficiency. Against an adversary who makes several times more than any damage the sum of pirate groups can inflict every month, these data points are meaningless.

In contrast, the pirate groups you keep up pampering have terrible leadership cadres. Incompetence and inability to think strategically combined with inability to innovate are rampant, if not outright the norm. I don't follow the actions of -EH- each and every day as they cannot project any presence towards Deklein; but MoA is MoA because of such a lack of talent. If one actually takes time to observe how MoA operates daily regarding roams and CTAs, the inevitable realization is that they don't even have multiple competent FCs. At best, I can only mention two MoA FCs that I can comfortably attest to being somehow competent. One doesn't even have to take this assessment at face value coming from me, any MoA partner/ally who has worked with them can attest to this.

Lastly, in case one is even unwilling to accept the testimony regarding MoA coming from their allies, one should realize what various MoA leaders have said again and again. They know very well even under the new sov system, they will not be able to capture and hold space assets. They know very well that they lack the talent for it. They also fully realize that they cannot ever risk risking their own ships in any engagement that the opponent would be able to shoot them back and incur losses on them. If a pirate group like MoA loses their claim to green killboards that are caused by bloated figures from AFK ratters and ignorant haulers, they will lose the reason of their existence and fail-cascade.

Because they can't afford to lose ships in fleet engagements by actually fighting with the Imperium, not because of ISK problems but because of being averse about losses and how losses look on their killboards, they will always be insignificant.

In my opinion, as you confess in your post yourself, you are too poor to afford a proper contract with competent PvP entities/mercenaries like PL, BL or NC. If you only hire one of these groups, you can maybe keep that group on for three months or so before you go bankrupt, and this assumes you have more wealth than what we know you to actually possess and one of the groups agrees to work for you on the cheap. Actually, who am I kidding? Even if you could have afforded any one of these groups, they'd refuse to acknowledge you as their employer. They all ridicule you and laugh at you.

Summary: Groups like MoA and -EH- are indeed a bunch of kids masturbating over AFK ratter and ignorant hauler kills as you invented the term in your own post. They are not similar in any way to mercenary groups like PL, BL or even the direction that NC. now seems to be taking. They are doomed to being incompetent and insignificant as their sole reason of existence is avoiding incurring losses on their killboards by only targeting AFK ratters and ignorant haulers. The second they decide to follow the example of big boys like Imperium, PL, BL or NC. by actually fighting with targets that shoot back, they start to take losses and they failcascade as they have nothing remaining to show for as a sign of relevance towards their own line members. You are working hard to lie and spin these groups as competent PvP entities through cherry picking and cooking up stats, because you can't afford a meaningful contract with either PL, BL or NC.

Let's see Marmites the last 5 days.This contract was paid properly

Yes yes, Gevlon is crazy and MOA is irrelevant and suck. So ignore Gevlon and send your fleets out to crush MOA... They only have one or two good fcs, how hard could it be?

Oh wait you have all tried numerous times and always failed. And Gevlons "crazy" graphs show truths that you find embarrassing.

Writing essay length answers explaining why MOA and Gevlon are irrelevant kinda gives the opposite impression.... just a tip to the CFC dudes in charge of that stuff.

..Fix: MoA does 3x more in ISK losses then NC.

MoA doesn't damage the CFC because they are not a threat to the CFC's sov.

NC. targets the CFC's sov, the thing that makes the CFC the CFC: A dominate sov holding coalition.

He is simply pointing out that the forces you are hiring are attacking the wrong objective.

This is classic Eve Gevlon. Purposfully obtuse to further his own interests.

Gevlon's most favored logical fallacy is called the Texas sharpshooter.

It is defined as "cherry-picking data clusters to suit an argument, or finding a pattern to fit a presumption."

Example:

Gevlon claims when damage dealt and damage received in ISK value is recalculated according to a problematic methodology of his own invention, it reveals that Mordus Angels deal more damage in ISK value to the Imperium on a time period that he gets to pick based on it's ability to yields numbers favorable to his argument. Therefore, Gevlon concludes that the biggest enemy of the Imperium coalition (please don't laugh) and that Mordus have the best PvP skilled players in EVE (I know it's difficult, but please don't laugh, at least not just yet)

Why?

Because no matter how many times one recalculates damage values and ratios to suit his own needs, MoA kills on AFK ratters and careless haulers is only pertinent to the Imperium's line member retention. If MoA or any other pirate group could do something significant, alliances that make up the Imperium would have been bleeding out members at a constant rate and the Imperium would have collapsed long by now. This obviously hasn't been the case. Other than that, damage dealt on random afk ratters and careless haulers has nothing to do with the strength and well being of a coalition, and Gevlon commits another fallacy by implying killing AFK ratters and careless haulers in no risk and no commit instawarp interceptors and cloaky ships is an activity that requires a lot of skill. It isn't, but still, Gevlon would like you to think that pirate groups are the best PvP players in EVE.

The second favorite fallacy of Gevlon is called black or white.

It is defined as "Where two alternative states are presented as the only possibilities, when in fact more possibilities exist."

Example:

Gevlon posits that because he sends a few billions every week to some pirate groups, all AFK ratter and careless hauler kills those groups get are his. He claims that any change in activity patterns of such groups is due to him sending a few billions to them occasionally, and without him, those groups wouldn't have been effective at all.

Why?

Gevlon wants you to think that there are only two mutually exclusive states: He either sends them peanuts routinely and because of that, pirates are able to get kills, or he doesn't send them anything, and pirates suddenly find themselves unable to kill AFK ratters and careless haulers. He wants you to think he is relevant or significant because he sends a few billions every once in a while to what he defined before as "a bunch of kids masturbating over killboard values".

The third fallacy of Gevlon is called burden of proof.

It is defined as "Saying that the burden of proof lies not with the person making the claim, but with someone else to disprove."

Example:

Gevlon provides a flawed texas sharpshooter argument with the cooked up statistics of his creation, and is unable to come up with any sensible premise or evidence that connects his flawed argument to the hilariously unrealistic conclusion he is pushing hard to sell here. When anyone points those out, Gevlon asks them for proof and refuses to provide any valid proof of his own.

Why?

Gevlon isn't really interested in rational thought or argumentation, he is merely trying to make you believe into something that is obviously untrue.

Fourth and fifth logical fallacies Gevlon often employs are called strawman and false cause.

Strawman is "Misrepresenting someone’s argument to make it easier to attack."

Example: Gevlon takes the fact that pirate groups are ineffective and insignificant to undermine a sovereign null entity such as Imperium, combines it another valid point provided by someone else "Mordus provides us content through their failed ratter hotdrops" and claims that those cannot be true at the same time, and existence of one disproves the other.

Why? Propaganda and wanting to firmly place his failure under a favorable light yet again. He wants everyone to believe something that almost nobody takes seriously. He wants pirate groups to be perceived as competent, relevant and effective, because he sends them a few billions every week. He needs to claim credit on such a perceived, imaginary success to present himself as someone important in EVE.

False cause is "Presuming that a real or perceived relationship between things means that one is the cause of the other."

Example: Gevlon claims that the Imperium is only succesful because they fool EVE community into believing that they are not elite PvP players, and that their opponents as elite PvP. He concludes that the Imperium actually must be an elite PvP group and the Imperium's opponents are in fact without skill and only employ mass number tactics, and because Imperium fools them into thinking otherwise, Imperium's opponents are unable to fix their shortcomings.

Why? Gevlon is desperate for any frivolous claim to cast some positive light in his failed endeavor. He is willing to include any amount of ridiculousness just to be able to use it for his benefit.


I believe the above definitions and examples will be able to help readers understand the nature of Gevlon's ridiculous propaganda and attempts at manipulation.